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Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by starsinthesky7 » Mon Apr 11, 2011 9:50 am

All the advice I have given you is not listed in the book. I have learned that from my own research, and from other rootworkers. But the book is a great resource about saints as well as the other things i have listed.
Thank u St. Martha for everything you have done on my behalf.
Thank u St. Elena! I appreciate your great help.
Thank you St. Peter for opening the gates&roads!

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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by ConjureMan Ali » Mon Apr 11, 2011 12:44 pm

Amen, Johannes. People more familiar with Catholic folk-traditions will recall pilgrimages as a way of offering.

Remember all that saints come from a specific cultural and religious background and should be approached within that frame. Your best source of info is from people who work with them within those traditions. In conjure what little saint work that has been adopted comes specifically from the Spiritualist Church and Latin American Folk Magical traditions.

Before approaching any saint, do a divination to see if they will be willing to help you. Some saints are willing to hand out their favors, others want you to become their devotees. In either case, approach them with a prayerful heart, and open mind, and listen to their wants. Some will tell you quite specifically what they desire and others will stick to time-tested age-old methods. Light a candle, leave a glass of water and listen to what they have to say.

Also try and learn the prayers for the saint that you wish to approach, if available. It is not uncommon to pray the rosary, say a novena, or repeat special prayers to the saint and these often will illicit strong responses from saints as they are recognizable as the religious framework that these saints exist in. If you are uncomfortable with Catholic forms of worship, working with saints may not be for you.

Finally, be wary about what you read online. There is a great deal of bunk, so check your sources, and turn to people who actually work with saints to know more about them.
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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by Jibrael » Thu Apr 14, 2011 11:24 am

I know that Hoodoo is primarily Christian in its overall theology, but I've been reading the various articles on LM about good luck Gods and Saints, and the spirits of the dead,so it got me wondering: is there within Hoodoo any recognition of nature spirits, such as the Faeries, Dryads, Gnomes, etc.? Given Hoodoo's roots in both Native American and African folk magic, along with bits of Irish, its hard for me to believe nature spirits aren't in there somewhere, but I haven't seen them in the articles. Just asking. The Fae are very important to my personal belief system, but as I start studying Hoodoo I want to be sure I don't water it down with foreign elements.
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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by Devi Spring » Thu Apr 14, 2011 12:34 pm

In conjure all things are believed to be endowed with a spirit that can be called upon for aid - the spirit of the herbs, roots, flowers, the spirit of the crossroads, the spirit of the river, the spirit of a place, etc. They are not called "fae" in rootwork, just generally spirits. I'm sure there may be some regional variations, and since each practitioner is an individual some personal variations. But mostly you'll just see reference to spirits within the hoodoo tradition.

I'm sure Miss Cat or ConjureMan Ali or some of the real academic hard-hitters can provide more specific details. :)
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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by Dr Johannes » Thu Apr 14, 2011 2:22 pm

Jibrael wrote:...: is there within Hoodoo any recognition of nature spirits, such as the Faeries, Dryads, Gnomes, etc.? ...
Besides the short and correct answer already given above I will add my 2c.
Working with nature spirits are relevant for cultures living in close connection with nature and the need to interact with it. Most of the folk magical practice having to do with nature spirits in Europe has to do with farming, hunting, fishing and alike. The magic is other most relevant for those owning their own farm or growing their own crops etc.

Now consider the culture in which the Hoodoo tradition has developed since the 18th century. Slaves, rarely farm owners then urbanization and so on. That is probably why the use of nature spirits of the European forms has not become an integrated and common practice in the community today.

On a side note, these beings were not very important in the later North European folk magic either, except as sources of disease and destruction due to offence. When it comes to spirits in both North European folk magic and Hoodoo, the most important spirits have always been the dead. One may also see a difference between general folk magic and modern initiatory traditions. The latter tends to put more emphasis on personified spirits and focuses around a spiritual practice, while the former is more concerned with the "natural virtue" of that material and the mundane results one might expect from using it.

//Dr. Johannes
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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by ConjureMan Ali » Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:17 pm

You'll find talk of the little folk and similar personification of nature and its spirits within various folk-traditions of Europe. Some of the Appalachian workers and those heavily influenced by Germanic and Celtic practices have adopted such thought, but hoodoo doesn't have the same personification. Hoodoo's purview comes from the Native American who did not personify nature into anthropromophic entities, but rather saw them as spirits in themselves. Like the tradition that influenced its outlook on nature, conjure does not have a need to "classify" and "identify" spirits. There are either spirits of the dead or spirits of the natural world. That's it.

In this view, the rose as alive as the Spirit of the Rose, and red pepper is Red Pepper. Both of these are spirits and are called upon in our work in the name of God. Nature is seen as alive and very much filled with spirits, they just don't have to be anthropomorphic.
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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by Jibrael » Thu Apr 14, 2011 9:56 pm

Thank you for the clarification. I can appreciate the difference between believing all things have a spirit, and personifieing those same spirits into "beings".
There was a time in my personal practice when calling on or invoking deities or spirits to "bless" herbs or whatever seemed very important, but anymore I feel more like I'm "waking up" a spirit within the herb or root itself. I still believe in those spirit beings of nature, but having forms or names for them doesn't feel like its the point at all.
Thanks again
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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by Tabbylove17 » Wed May 04, 2011 11:00 pm

When you are working with a new saint or angel for the first time how long do you have light a candle, or layout flowers to really to establish a relationship with them. I was told that certain saints and angels want a relationship with you before they grant your petition. Is that true?
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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by aura » Thu May 05, 2011 3:30 am

Hi Tabbylove,

many questions concerning working with saints are answered in the following forum thread which was very helpful to me working-with-deities,-angels,-spirits,- ... -t450.html . May it also be for you.

As to establishing relationships, it is true that some saints prefer a working relationship b4 you petition them. Think about it: how would you like a perfect stranger to ask you a favour on the street? Good Samaritan or not, if you got requests 10x a day from Mr. or Mrs. Anyone; you'd probably react humanly and become somewhat irritated!

When you ask how long it takes to establish a relationship: that's subjective. As a general rule, you'll be able to tell when the relationship has been established. You'll be able to feel their energy in your altar space or with you as you go about your activities. I've found (and yes this is merely my own opinion on the subject ;) ) that the relationship itself can become much more rewarding than any petition. For example: I cherish the relationship I have with St-Joseph of Cupertino and pray to him regularly. I've also made him a permanent altar-piece by hand and done much research into his life. The working relationship deepens as I consider him a mentor and example to aspire to and work with.

That said, your own individual experience will be different. After reading the above suggested thread, if the answers you seek are still unclear, specify the Saint or Angel that you're working with and many on this forum would be able to suggest approaches tailored to that specific person/emanation/Deity.

Blessings and best of luck.
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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by CC1 » Sat May 07, 2011 1:54 am

Hi Everyone,

I only recently joined this forum but i do find it so interesting and the people are so lovely.
I need some help with Santa Marta La Dominadora.
I've started working with her for about a week now and i so love her. She is wonderful with us women and she is so powerful indeed and iwant to make sure i look after her well so she can work for me and so i need help with the altar for her.
Should i put her separate from the rest( my other altars in my house) or what should i do to keep her happy. At the moment she is on my main altar with many other lovely Saints, right at the top of it on a separate small shelf and also she is in my bedroom and i do light candles for La Metresa in both places.
But as i said i am not at peace if this is correct and fair setting for her.
Please someone help me in this matter.

Thank you Santa Marta La Dominadora, Saint Martha,Saint Expedite and Saint Ramona
Love you all x x

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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by Brother Elijah Mose » Mon May 09, 2011 2:18 pm

I keep St. Martha on the same altar as all the other saints without problem -- if you're working especially with her, maybe give her pride of place on your altar and set her in the center or the highest place. I've worked with her in the past, but she seems to get a long with my girlfriend a little more -- might go back to that idea that she prefers to work with women. I'm sure there would be no problem keeping her with your other saints.
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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by ConjureMan Ali » Mon May 09, 2011 9:03 pm

There are various traditions that revolve around Saint Martha and they derive from various regions. Some insist that she doesn't like to share an altar, others find that she shares just fine. The truest way forward is to ask her about her preference and get her approval.
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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by kittynmoon » Tue May 10, 2011 6:59 am

I have moved back into my parents house for a bit as I am separating and getting a divorce. My St expidite statue was knocked over and his head fell off. I did not really have a proper space set up yet, so I am not surprised. What should I do with him? I am sure I need a new one.

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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by Tabbylove17 » Mon Jun 13, 2011 10:18 pm

Ok I will do that. Thanks. I'm moving into a place of my own, so I can actually have the space and privacy to do it.
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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by aura » Tue Jun 14, 2011 3:12 am

LM carries oils for working with many of the Saints and Angels and All Saints oil is also a good choice (http://www.luckymojo.com/mojocatoils.html#catholic).

There is also a full selection of prayer cards, statuettes and prayer plaques to build your altar (http://www.luckymojo.com/mojocatstatuary.html; http://www.luckymojo.com/mojocatholycards.html; http://www.luckymojo.com/mojocatamulets.html#italy)

Enjoy!
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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by LijBerhan » Thu Jun 30, 2011 12:59 pm

Does anyone have any tips on how to petition eastern orthodox saints ?
Is there any patron e/o saints anybody here works with?

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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by Joann Lee » Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:14 am

I would like to thank you all for your advice on working with Saints. It has clarified my position quite a bit.
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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by andy598 » Sat Aug 13, 2011 5:54 am

1) After offerings are given, how long do you leave it on the altar? Is it for a week or when the offering becomes old?

2) I have offered bread, coffee and other food that becomes old. I have taken away the offering after a week. Was I wrong?

3) If working with a Saint for 2 months or more and results are not seen, can you stop working with the Saint without the Saint becoming upset?

4) What is the best way to stop working with a Saint who has not produced results?

5) Do I have to say anything or can I just remove Saint from altar and put away?

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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by jwmcclin » Sat Aug 13, 2011 8:39 am

1 & 2: No, it is your call, after the bread becomes stale, you can scatter them under trees or such for birds to enjoy. The coffee can be disposed of in similar fashion. In other words, you are disposing of the remains for nature to take care of...

I am going to go a step further and repeat something I posted in Jan

-----
I cannot say it better than how cat worded the reasons for ritual disposal, "Because hoodoo is a form of "natural magic," one of its axioms is that the herbs, roots, minerals, and other items used in root-work are themselves inherently powerful, rather than having to be "consecrated," "empowered" or "charged" with energy in the neo-pagan manner. For this reason it is also very important in the hoodoo tradition to properly dispose of any material remnants that are left over after a spell has been cast, a mojo hand has been created, or a trick has been laid."

With that said, offering of food items can be fed to the birds or another environmentally friendly method of disposal. And it is not 'gotten rid of' it is a ritual disposal. FYI Laying Down Tricks and Disposing of Ritual Remnants in the Hoodoo Tradition http://www.luckymojo.com/layingtricks.html I hope this helps...
-----
3) Yes.

4) Respectfully! Thank him/her for their work...etc..etc...

5) Saints whom I have petitioned, whether they answered or not, remain on their perspective altars.
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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by aura » Sat Aug 13, 2011 10:16 am

Hi tboy1977,

most of the questions and answers concerning this type of work are answered in this thread; it's worth reading through the entire thread.

If you have questions about work with any specific intercessors, you can find many of the most popular ones in the following board subsection: altar-tools,-religious-statues,-holy-ca ... o-f23.html

Happy reading.
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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by starsinthesky7 » Sat Aug 13, 2011 1:43 pm

1)
It depends on what the offering is. I typically leave the offerings on the altar such as food for a day or two. Then I dispose of them around my yard, or I dispose of them in a ritualistic way. Now if I am offering something like wine, or a bowl of water, I pretty much leave it on there until I work with the saint the next time or week. If its not gone then I dispose of it the same way.
2)
See Above, and no you were not wrong. It is important to dispose of things in a ritual manner. By disposing of the work in a ritual way you are allowing further direction of the work, and how it will take. Essentially, even though you have physically stopped working the spell, the work is still "working" per se.
3)

Yes, you can stop working with them. Simply stop petitioning them, and thank them for any movement they may or may not have brought to your situation.

4)See Above, and you may want to get a reading BEFORE working with the saint to A) see if they want to work with you in the first place regarding your matter, and B) if they will help bring you movement.


5) Do I have to say anything or can I just remove Saint from altar and put away?

See Number 3 and read the rest of the ENTIRE thread.
Thank u St. Martha for everything you have done on my behalf.
Thank u St. Elena! I appreciate your great help.
Thank you St. Peter for opening the gates&roads!

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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by Jinji » Sat Aug 13, 2011 3:18 pm

Hello everyone. Happy full moon in Aquarius!

I am posting this here because I believe "asking for help with Spirits" would be closest to what has been going on lately:

It seems that for some time now there has been a Djinn in my life. I have felt the presence of the Djinn and have not quite known what "to do" about it. I feel as if it is wanting to: 1) help me in some way , 2)perhaps work a trade of sorts (I feel as if this Djinn wants me to accomplish something in life that it cannot so easily, and that in return it will bestow something on me, and 3) that it has a presence here that actually coincides with, and sometimes enters into my dog (which, interestingly, my husband brought home to me last fall, he found her in the woods).

I have never before experienced anything like this and would really like some pointers as to how to interact with this being. I am in no way frightened or intimidated. It's quite pleasant and a bit odd. I can't find anything decent in a google search and as a more scientific person, I don't know what literary databases to search online that might be helpful. Are there any books, AIRR workers, courses out there? This djinn does not appear to be leaving, and I would like to explore the relationship further.

Thanks in advance for your replies.

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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by Jinji » Sat Aug 13, 2011 4:33 pm

The more I think about this, the more I realize I should possibly be typing "djinni" as it's one being/entity, not two. Sort of tells you how much I know about this being.

I am deeply rooted in a yoga tradition and have studied astrology, Kabbalah and some pow-wow medicine. I have been doing "hoodoo" ever since I was a child, but didn't know what it was called. Lucky for me, I found this site and miss cat's books a couple years back. I am a very busy professional who unfortunately doesn't have as much time to devote to the study of hoodoo as I would like right now, however this site and the radio show have been super helpful.

And what's kind of interesting to me is that, about the same time I had an initiatory dream (last fall) about hoodoo, this Djinni came into my life. I didn't know what to think about it, it just seemed so matter of fact. I came home one day and announced to my husband " I have a genie". He looked at me the same way he looks at me when I say, " You know, I have two heads." Well, I knew about as much with my brain about genies as one from The I Dream of Genie era would- not jack. But the limited google search I ran convinced me that I had on some level at least properly identified this being. It's super pleasant, not overpoweringly so. Just seems nice. All I have done so far is acknowledge and greet it internally, that's it.

And as you can see by my user name, this being is a presence in my life at this time.

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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by Rain42day » Thu Sep 15, 2011 1:12 pm

Ive started feeding my spirit guides and ancestors a nice meal, I try to do this at least once a week, however I was wondering how long do i leave it on my altar?

1) until the small candle goes out -- which is about 3 hours?

2) or until the food turns bad?

3) or for a whole week?

I want to keep my spirits and ancestors, spirit guides and angles happy...

please help

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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by aura » Thu Sep 15, 2011 2:20 pm

Hi Rain42day,

I think the answer you're looking for is in the following thread (along with lots of other useful info for this kind of work):

working-with-deities,-angels,-spirits,- ... -t450.html

Blessings.
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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by catherineyronwode » Thu Sep 15, 2011 2:21 pm

Thanks, Rain42day -- and i have actually merged this question into that thread!
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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by Done1 » Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:07 am

I have a problem that has been plaguing me for some time now. I have this guy that nearly broke me down some time ago, and never apologized for it. He pulled up next to me one day and I can honestly say I saw the fear in him, but still no apology. I've walked around with so much anger and hatred that all I want is an apology because then maybe I can let this go. This guy can be a bit of a douche, and since it happened so long ago it pretty much is a difficult situation, plus when our fallout happened I told him I wanted an apology and he clearly said "I'm not apologizing". So my question is, which saint can I pray to for this situation?

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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by Devi Spring » Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:12 am

I would personally just do a Reversal on him and then Cut and Clear so I could move on.

However, I guess you could try petitioning St. Jude, patron of lost causes, as it seems a lost cause that this guy will apologize.
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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by Done1 » Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:31 am

Devi Spring wrote:I would personally just do a Reversal on him and then Cut and Clear so I could move on.

However, I guess you could try petitioning St. Jude, patron of lost causes, as it seems a lost cause that this guy will apologize.

Yea your right. I need to try the cut and clear seriously badly because even when I saw him last year and it appeared like he wanted to say sorry for a brief moment I forgave ,then grew angry again. This is eating me alive and has been for sometime now.

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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by Devi Spring » Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:42 am

Well, then go ahead and take a black candle and wipe your body down with it from head to toe, while concentrating on all the anger you've held being pulled off of you and absorbed into the candle. Once you've done that, take a big breath, and allow all the residual anger that still remain fill that breath, and then breathe that onto and into the candle. Carve your enemy's name in backwards mirror writing on the candle, butt the candle, and then set it working on top of a mirror that you've not looked into. Let your anger and negative energy alone be the dressing for that candle.

After that do a series of Cut and Clear baths. Since you've been holding onto this for a few years, you might want to do 7 or maybe even 13 days worth. For a really extra deep cleansing of this matter, use 13-Herb Bath each of those days as well. Take the baths at sunset, and take the water to the crossroads, throwing it to the departing sun in the West, and ask it to take all your anger and troubles and emotions connected to that person away from you.

If after that you still feel connected to the situation, you can do the entire Cut and Clear spell kit. If you want that person out of your life forever, then do the Black Walnut bath as part of that work.

Best of luck in moving on!
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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by Done1 » Mon Sep 19, 2011 9:01 am

Devi Spring wrote:Well, then go ahead and take a black candle and wipe your body down with it from head to toe, while concentrating on all the anger you've held being pulled off of you and absorbed into the candle. Once you've done that, take a big breath, and allow all the residual anger that still remain fill that breath, and then breathe that onto and into the candle. Carve your enemy's name in backwards mirror writing on the candle, butt the candle, and then set it working on top of a mirror that you've not looked into. Let your anger and negative energy alone be the dressing for that candle.

After that do a series of Cut and Clear baths. Since you've been holding onto this for a few years, you might want to do 7 or maybe even 13 days worth. For a really extra deep cleansing of this matter, use 13-Herb Bath each of those days as well. Take the baths at sunset, and take the water to the crossroads, throwing it to the departing sun in the West, and ask it to take all your anger and troubles and emotions connected to that person away from you.

If after that you still feel connected to the situation, you can do the entire Cut and Clear spell kit. If you want that person out of your life forever, then do the Black Walnut bath as part of that work.

Best of luck in moving on!
Ok thanks sooo much!!!

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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by Born_Lucky » Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:55 pm

Hi Lucky Forum !

So ive been wanting to know:

1)is there categories of diffrent spirits in hoodoo? not including saints and angels.
1a)Like nature spirits etc?

I know there isn't a list of spirits in hoodoo of the dead,
but:

2) How to know what unnamed dead spirit you are working with, if it is of evil intent to harm or good intent to heal or both? is there a method?

3)what is a proven and effective way to ward off evil dead spirits and attract good ones?
or if working with "evil" dead spirits,
3a) what is a good way to be protected?

4) Are there fetishes in hoodoo similar to kindoki(african witchcraft) fetishes, that house the dead or familliar spirits?



Im of african descent and have just started working with hoodoo herb and root magic and hoodoo
but have learned from my uncle about prendas and mulombes and dead spirits and how helpful than can be and how great the relationship can be.

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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by MissMichaele » Thu Sep 29, 2011 7:44 pm

Historically, most conjure folks have been Christian, working with Jesus (and the saints, if they are Catholic) and their own ancestors. Some also call on the spirits of great conjure workers of the past, such as Marie Laveau, whose grave is a popular pilgrimage site. I work with Aunt Caroline Dye and am in the process of dedicating a chapel to her.

Others -- Catholics, mostly, though this practice is spreading into the wider culture -- call on folk saints such as Jesus Malverde, Dr. Jose Gregorio Hernandez, and Maximon. Some of these folk saints have their own preferred offerings and traditions of work; others don't. I work with Dr. Hernandez, for instance, though I'm not Catholic, and know of no particular traditions for working with him beyond donations to medical charities when your desire is achieved.

Some, like myself, also call on the spirits of great justice workers of the past -- secular saints, if you will; people who, like the saints of the Catholic church, proved themselves to be compassionate, good and honorable people in life. This is why I work with Bayard Rustin, and also have pictures of Dr. Martin Luther King and Rev. Howard Thurman on my altar.

When we go to the graveyard, if we feel called to the grave of someone not related to us, we assess the spirit's intentions the same way we would anything else -- by the promptings of the spirit, by prayer, and by signs in the material world. Here are some material signs I have found in the graveyard:
  • Pictures of a married couple, based on photos taken late in their lives, carved into their tombstone; both of them smiling and facing each other.
  • A grave under a pine tree that was shaped exactly like conventional pictures of Christmas trees; her tombstone contained the phrase "let's take the long way home," which I thought showed an adventurous spirit.
  • A grave whose headstone consisted of a blacksmith's anvil, and whose surname was "Manley." Looks like a great choice for spiritual power. A very interesting prospect for spiritual work, especially about growing in power. I have not investigated this one yet.
In the Hoodoo Rootwork Correspondence Course, there are no fewer than seven lessons on working with spirits, with the dead, and in the graveyard (see http://www.luckymojo.com/curriculum.html. You might want to widen your knowledge (and resolve any uncertainties) by taking this course.

Hope this helps,

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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by autumnalflower » Thu Sep 29, 2011 8:34 pm

That helped me Miss Michaele as far as signs in a graveyard go, I hadn't thought to look at it that way, thanks!

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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by roguedeer » Fri Sep 30, 2011 7:55 am

I've been wanting to make one to keep on my altar, to make offerings to and speak to before I petition La Sirene. In my perusing of pictures of altars, I've noticed others doing this - that gave me the idea. I have lots of black and red cloth to make his clothing. I wonder if there are traditions associated with the stuffing I should use? I was also curious what oil I should fix it with, if there are certain prayers to recite, etc? I have searched for information elsewhere, but haven't found much.

I was thinking of using Spirit Guide oil to dress him with.

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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by Mama Micki » Fri Sep 30, 2011 8:41 am

This forum is Lucky Mojo products forum and mainly concerns Hoodoo, not Voodoo. Hoodoo is African-American folk magic, practiced mainly by Christians.
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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by MissMichaele » Fri Sep 30, 2011 9:21 am

Yes, you'd have better luck asking this question in a forum devoted to African and Afro-Caribbean traditional religions.

Although most vodouissants begin and end their services with Christian prayers, I'm told.

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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by catherineyronwode » Fri Sep 30, 2011 11:27 am

I'm merging this Papa Legba thread into the "Working with Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Techniques" thread...

Most hoodoo practitioners are Christian, and, like other Christians, they can be found in several denominations.

Many practitioners of Voodoo are also nominal Catholics, and we do find a small number of Catholics in the USA who practice hoodoo (but not Voodoo).

Catholic hoodoo practitioners are only the majority denomination wherever Catholics dominate in a region -- for instance, in Maryland and Louiisiana. In other areas of the country, you will find more Protestant Christian hoodoo workers, mostly in the Baptist, AME, Pentacostal, Holiness, and Spiritualist churches.

No church ever endorses hoodoo 100%, due to the possibility of using the work to harm folks, but i number among my customers and clients many pastors, deacons, and floor members of Christian churches. To the best of my knowledge, the only African American Christian denomination that truly condemns hoodoo is COGIC.

If you ever take my one-year course in hoodoo, you will find that here is an entire lesson on African American religious denominations and their relationship to hoodoo, so that's enough for now on that subject.

Catholic hoodoo workers (and non-Catholics who like to work with the saints as spirits) also employ hoodoo supplies named after saints. They can be employed any way that regular hoodoo condition oils are used, but their primary use is to dress candles, especially those 7-day vigil candles with the saints' pictures on them. There are also sachet powders, incense, bath crystals, floor wash, and soaps for the more popular saints.

Each Catholic saint has his or her own special colours, saint-day, and intercessory or novena prayers, and each one is believed to intercede for petitions in one or more areas of life. Saint Jude, the one you mentioned, is the patron saint of "lost causes" -- thus he is often called upon by those who have a terminal illness or he is petitioned on behalf of those who have given up hope of recovery from addictions. One of my favourite patron saints is Saint Expedite, the patron of those who procrastinate. :-) I have written a list of the major saints and the conditions for which they are petitioned and it is online at

http://www.luckymojo.com/patronsaints.html

From there you will also find links to web pages for saints whom i have given their own illustrated write-ups, including Saints Expedite, Christopher, Anthony, Simon-Peter, Martin of Tours, and so forth. Eventually i intend to add at least 50 more saint pages to my site, as time allows.

By the way, we carry Catholic holy cards, chromos, and small statues in the Lucky Mojo shop and we also manufacture a long line of saint oils, powders, incense, and bath salts. The most popular are St. Michael (for protection and the patron of policemen), Saint Jude, Saint Expedite, the Guardian Angel, the Virgin of Guadelupe, and Saint Martha the Dominator.

You can find all of the saint-related products for sale at Lucky Mojo by going to the complete Lucky Mojo inventory page and using the "find" function of your browser with the word "saint." It's online at

http://www.luckymojo.com/lucky-mojo-inventory.html

Good luck.
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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by Done1 » Sat Oct 01, 2011 7:48 am

I have a question...I once used a red glass candle to petition Saint Expedite and then put it out and bought a new one. The candle is already filled with Van Van (the first candle), so I'm wondering can I re-use that candle in a new petition or should I just completely buy a new one? I certainly don't want to anger this generous saint1

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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by Devi Spring » Sat Oct 01, 2011 10:45 am

You'll need to start with a new candle for a new petition.
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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by Done1 » Sat Oct 01, 2011 1:58 pm

Devi Spring wrote:You'll need to start with a new candle for a new petition.
Ok thats what I figured, so I already bought a new one. Thanks :-)

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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by ConjureMan Ali » Sat Oct 01, 2011 11:40 pm

No, there isn't a division of spirits or categories. Usually named spirits of the dead and the natural spirits of the herbs and roots are what conjure doctors call upon--all in the name of Jesus.

The efficacy of conjure comes directly from Spirit with a capital "S." Some individual workers may work with a host of different spirits and beings, but in traditional conjure I was taught to call upon "God, the Devil, the Dead, and Spirit of the Earth" the latter being your roots and herbs.

However Miss Michaele has answered this question wonderfully.

As to fetishes, they did indeed exist at one point. Spirit bottles were used to sometimes house specific spirits of the dead by collecting graveyard dirt and keeping in the bottle. Similarly bones were gathered from someone who then would act as a sort of familiar. One of the most famous spells involves using the bones of a dead person to help dominate other people.

However the use of spirit dolls and spirit houses is not as common anymore due to the fact that these objects were often associated with a priestly class in Africa. African Priests would make Spirit Pots, Ngangas, and other similar objects. With the adoption of Christianity the priests were absorbed by the Deacon, Bishop, Reverend, and Spiritual Elder, but without the trappings of the older African religion people simply weren't making those magical objects anymore.

That said, I met a few old timey root doctors that still had their spirit dolls and houses that contained specific spirits within. Some anthropologists remark that the mojo hand is actually the child of the lucky charm/talisman and the spirit containers as the mojo hand, in addition to be talismanic, also houses the spirit of the herbs and roots who then work on your behalf. Another great example is the Jack Ball.
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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by Born_Lucky » Sun Oct 02, 2011 9:53 am

MissMichaele wrote:Historically, most conjure folks have been Christian, working with Jesus (and the saints, if they are Catholic) and their own ancestors. Some also call on the spirits of great conjure workers of the past, such as Marie Laveau, whose grave is a popular pilgrimage site. I work with Aunt Caroline Dye and am in the process of dedicating a chapel to her.

Others -- Catholics, mostly, though this practice is spreading into the wider culture -- call on folk saints such as Jesus Malverde, Dr. Jose Gregorio Hernandez, and Maximon. Some of these folk saints have their own preferred offerings and traditions of work; others don't. I work with Dr. Hernandez, for instance, though I'm not Catholic, and know of no particular traditions for working with him beyond donations to medical charities when your desire is achieved.

Some, like myself, also call on the spirits of great justice workers of the past -- secular saints, if you will; people who, like the saints of the Catholic church, proved themselves to be compassionate, good and honorable people in life. This is why I work with Bayard Rustin, and also have pictures of Dr. Martin Luther King and Rev. Howard Thurman on my altar.

When we go to the graveyard, if we feel called to the grave of someone not related to us, we assess the spirit's intentions the same way we would anything else -- by the promptings of the spirit, by prayer, and by signs in the material world. Here are some material signs I have found in the graveyard:
  • Pictures of a married couple, based on photos taken late in their lives, carved into their tombstone; both of them smiling and facing each other.
  • A grave under a pine tree that was shaped exactly like conventional pictures of Christmas trees; her tombstone contained the phrase "let's take the long way home," which I thought showed an adventurous spirit.
  • A grave whose headstone consisted of a blacksmith's anvil, and whose surname was "Manley." Looks like a great choice for spiritual power. A very interesting prospect for spiritual work, especially about growing in power. I have not investigated this one yet.
In the Hoodoo Rootwork Correspondence Course, there are no fewer than seven lessons on working with spirits, with the dead, and in the graveyard (see http://www.luckymojo.com/curriculum.html. You might want to widen your knowledge (and resolve any uncertainties) by taking this course.

Hope this helps,

Miss Michaele
Thank you that was very helpful, i guess i should have posted my original thread here; i didn't realize how much had already been discussed.
good move.

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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by Joseph Magnuson » Wed Oct 05, 2011 8:12 pm

Thank you to Conjureman Ali and to Miss Michaele for furthering the information in this thread and sharing valuable information with us all. These are words to be read and understood!
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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by roguedeer » Wed Oct 05, 2011 9:18 pm

Hello all -

I'm getting ready to do some Crown of Success work related to my school and career work. I'm studying to become a forester/park ranger. I was thinking of perhaps petitioning St. Thomas Aquinas (patron saint of students) and St. John Gualbert (patron saint of foresters and the park service) in tandem with the candle work. I'm having trouble finding information about traditional offerings, days of the week, colors, etc. associated with these saints - can anyone here help?

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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by Joseph Magnuson » Thu Oct 06, 2011 7:32 am

St. John Gualbert (San Giovanni Gualberto) is an wonderful Saint to work with for your needs. I can't find anything in the few books I have, nor on-line about the things you seek for him though. As for an offering, I would plant a tree in his name. I believe he would like this very much.

For St. Thomas Aquinas I would donate some books to your local school or library.Or make a cash donation to a church or school. His Feast Day is January 28th. Remember him then.

Good luck to you, I have a very soft spot for the vocation you have chosen to go into. Let us know any more information that you find.
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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by roguedeer » Thu Oct 06, 2011 12:25 pm

Thank you! What kind sentiments. The idea of donating books is a great one, as is the tree planting idea.

I wonder what colors and days of the week might be associated with these saints? Where do these traditions (color associations and days of the week) come from? I know this is potentially a question with a huge and complex answer, but any pointing in the right direction is appreciated.

I have gotten the impression that these two saints are not typically petitioned in hoodoo; maybe there are other, more traditional options I should pursue?

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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by Joseph Magnuson » Thu Oct 06, 2011 12:46 pm

Some Saints don't have traditional days of the week or colors associated with them. There are simply too many saints! If I am wrong then I hope I am corrected and show where the information can be found. I looked through the three books I own and did a quick on-line search, but to no avail regarding colors and days of the week. I say just go for it. Use white as a color and disregard days of the week. These two saints will not be angry.

Also, I love your avatar as Drudkh are one of my favorite bands currently making music. I have 7 of their albums. Very nice job.
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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by Done1 » Thu Oct 06, 2011 5:28 pm

Joseph Magnuson wrote:Some Saints don't have traditional days of the week or colors associated with them. There are simply too many saints! If I am wrong then I hope I am corrected and show where the information can be found. I looked through the three books I own and did a quick on-line search, but to no avail regarding colors and days of the week. I say just go for it. Use white as a color and disregard days of the week. These two saints will not be angry.

Also, I love your avatar as Drudkh are one of my favorite bands currently making music. I have 7 of their albums. Very nice job.
Hey..Look for a book called "THE MAGICAL POWER OF THE SAINTS : EVOCATION AND CANDLE RITUALS" by Ray T Malbrough. That book is pretty detailed on the male and female saints along with their favorite colors and days of the week. Hope this helps :-)

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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by Joseph Magnuson » Thu Oct 06, 2011 7:41 pm

I was actually looking at my new revised Dictionary of the Saints and 300 Heavenly Allies books. But you're right n the Malbrough book it does actually list Saint Thomas Aquinas' Day of the Week as being Monday, and his candle color to be white. It however has no mention at all of Saint John Gaulbert. Thank you, Willa. I had completely overlooked the one book that had a scrap of info on candle color and day of the week! Hope that helps roguedeer!
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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by roguedeer » Fri Oct 07, 2011 9:00 am

Thanks much! That is very helpful.

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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by Done1 » Fri Oct 07, 2011 9:25 am

Joseph Magnuson wrote:I was actually looking at my new revised Dictionary of the Saints and 300 Heavenly Allies books. But you're right n the Malbrough book it does actually list Saint Thomas Aquinas' Day of the Week as being Monday, and his candle color to be white. It however has no mention at all of Saint John Gaulbert. Thank you, Willa. I had completely overlooked the one book that had a scrap of info on candle color and day of the week! Hope that helps roguedeer!
No problem! If I find any more books or info I'll be sure to either list them here or pm you and Roguedeer on it :-).

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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by simplydevine » Wed Nov 30, 2011 11:36 am

do you have to light more than one candle? I'm planning to petition both St.Joseph and St. Expedite for assistance with finding a job. I have a job honey jar filled with LM herbs, oils and my petition. Do I need to pray to them one at a time, lighting a candle for each prayer, OR can I petition them together and light one candle?


Thank you!!!

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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by Dr Johannes » Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:01 pm

If you invite your future mother & father in law for dinner to tell them that you want to marry their daughter would you serve them only one sausage on a single plate? Or investors when the dinner topic will be funding your new project? You could. But they might prefer it to be a traditional meal fullfilling the expectations of such an occasion.
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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by Joseph Magnuson » Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:05 pm

Very good way of putting it Dr. Johannes. I agree...the least you can do is give each Saint their own light. I have not (nor do I want to start now) petitioned multiple Saints, etc. with the same candle. Go the extra bit and light multiple candles.
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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by simplydevine » Thu Dec 01, 2011 5:43 am

Thank you both for your responses. And Dr. Johannes, I like your analogy of the dinner plates. LOL!

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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by kyanite » Mon Dec 12, 2011 2:54 pm

Hi, I was told that I needed to do blessing and healing work and to petition Dr Hernandez for health and Saint Dymphna for my mental health state. I was wondering if I could also petition St Jude also even though I have petitioned him numerous times in the past for help with my finances? I also would like to know wouldn't St Lazarus be able to help me as well? Can I set up an altar for all four to help or is it best to petition just one at a time? I feel very desperate all of a sudden and wanted help from all saint and dieties available to help in my situation.I know its a lot of repayments that I may have to do but I am ready. Thank you

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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by Mary Bee » Mon Dec 12, 2011 5:30 pm

I have found St. Jude to help with any "desperate cause", so petitioning him for health matters is not unheard of.

Talk to these saints. Ask each of them if they'd want to share an altar with each other. Some spirits/saints want their own space, some are comfortable sharing. You may with to ask Dr. Hernandez for help with your physical healing, St. Dymphna for healing your mental health, and St. Jude to help you in general. If something ends up feeling wrong in terms of working with one of these saints, try something else.

I know that desperation and feeling ill is hard, and it can be difficult to focus during such a time, but pray from your heart and listen to what these saints have to say. You will learn the best way to work with them.

Good luck,
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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by Miss Tammie Lee » Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:01 pm

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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by Mama Micki » Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:53 pm

Other healers are Jesus, Mother Mary, and St. Peter. St. Peter was so powerful that it is reported in the book of Acts that even his shadow could heal.
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