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Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by catherineyronwode » Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:19 pm

I am merging this into the long thread on random Deities, Angels, Spirits, and Saints. No offense, but this is probably not the forum you want to be in if studying and practicing Voodoo is your goal. We are all about Protestant Christianity here, with no apologies and with plenty of historical tradition to back us up.
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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by MidsouthGuy » Tue Sep 04, 2012 11:51 am

Will saints work with people who are not Christian? I'm not Christian, but I'll work with any spirit that will work with me. I admire great people of faith, whatever that faith may be, and would hate to be disrespectful toward them.

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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by aura » Tue Sep 04, 2012 12:16 pm

Hi MidsouthGuy,

Other than a couple of particular cases, most Saints don't seem to have a problem working with non-Christians in my own limited experience. Some will even work quite well with Deities of other faiths. Begin by establishing a relationship with the ones which interest you, as you would a friend, and then migrate to work when you feel that a good connection has been established.

Blessings.
Aura Laforest
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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by catherineyronwode » Tue Sep 04, 2012 4:40 pm

MidSouthGuy,

In your introduction, elsewhere in the Forum, you wrote,

"I have experience with Wicca, Asatru, Natib Qadish, have worked with some Catholic saints, and have a working knowledge of La Regla Lukumi. Right now I'm [...] exploring Haitian Vodou, Palo Mayombe, and various religions of the ancient world."

Later, in this thread, you wrote,

"I'm beginning to explore Haitian Vodou, and would like some advice on how I should approach 'hot' spirits, particularly Met Kalfou and Baron Kriminel."

Now you ask,

"Will saints work with people who are not Christian? I'm not Christian, but I'll work with any spirit that will work with me."

Your interest in comparative religion is admirable, but this forum may be the wrong place to come for answers in that regard. However, i will try to answer your question as best i can, although i am fairly certain that what follows will neither be the reply you sought nor will it be of much use to you in your spiritual journey toward African Diasporic religions.

However, here we go...

In order to understand what it means to "work with saints" one needs to know what a saint is, or, more precisely, who the saints are.

In Christian usage, the word "saints" means different things to different people depending upon the doctrines of their denominations.

To Roman Catholics, Orthodox Christians, and Lutherans, saints are beings who are either Jewish archangels (e.g. Saint Michael) or people now dead who have been officially canonized by the church hierarchy (e.g.Saint Nicholas).

To many Protestants, saints is a term that refers to members of the church, both those who are currently living and those who have died in a state of faith and grace, as described in this old Baptist hymn. Please play the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-pf-Jx19Lc

Shall We Gather At The River
Words & Music: Robert Lowry 1864

Shall we gather at the river
Where bright angel feet have trod
With its crystal tide forever
Flowing by the throne of God?

Yes, we'll gather at the river
The beautiful, the beautiful river
Gather with the saints at the river
That flows by the throne of God

On the margin of the river
Washing up its silver spray
We will talk and worship ever
All the happy golden day

Ere we reach the shining river
Lay we every burden down
Grace our spirits will deliver
And provide a robe and crown

At the shining of the river
Mirror of the Saviour's face
Saints, whom death will never sever
Lift their songs of saving grace

Soon we'll reach the silver river
Soon our pilgrimage will cease
Soon our happy hearts will quiver
With the melody of peace

Now, as you can see, the idea of "canonized" saints is not present in this Baptist concept of sainthood. Basically, the believer or adherent understands the word "saint" on its original terms, being derived from sanctus, Latin for "sacred" or "holy." The Saints are the spirits of the blessed ones, those whose will gather in God's presence after death.

In addition to this Baptist sense of the term "saint" to mean a living or dead person who has been or will be taken to Heaven, there is an entire branch of Protestant Christianity, popularly called the Sanctified Churches, in which all members are considered saints (remember, "saint" comes from "sanctus" as in "holy" or "sanctified"). These Sanctified Churches are particularly well known in the Black community in the USA and Jamaica, among Holiness, Pentecostal, Apostolic, Church of God in Christ, and other denominations. I want you to watch these five youtube videos:

The Sanctified Church Preacher's in praise Holy Convocation 2010
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73lu3rOUqqI

WHAT TYPE OF CHURCH IS THIS? A HOLY GHOST, SANCTIFIED CHURCH
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73z2VMLbeDw

Elder Mark Moore Preaching In A SANCTIFIED Church
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stOqj_28mUo

I Go To A Sanctified Church
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGYlUstBQoI

Ignited Praise Dance/Shouting in church, Jewell Dominion
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xg9556BioF4

In Sanctified Churches, all of the members are saints, as is noted in the commentary to the fourth video above.

In the following lyrics, popular in the Jewell Dominion churches of the USA, as well as in the Sanctified churches of Barbados and Jamaica (see video #2 above), you will see the same idea expressed in an extremely direct manner:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFeKUdGvEcE
"What Kind of Church is This?" by the Living Waters Praise Team

What kind of church is this?
This is a Holy Ghost church!
What kind of church is this"?
This is a Sanctified Church!
What kind of church is this?
This is a Holy Ghost church!
It is a hand-clapping, foott-stompning,
Body-rocking, devil chasing,
True blue, red hot,
Holy Ghost Sanctified Church!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcGWkpUgp7o
Dr Carolyn Showell Singing - What Kind Of Church Is This?

What kind of church is this"?
This is a Sanctified Church!
What kind of church is this"?
This is a Sanctified Church!
This is a hand-clapping, foot-stompning,
Tongue-talking church of the Living God

What kind of saint are you?
A Sanctified Saint!
What kind of saint are you?
A Sanctified Saint!
A hand-clapping, foot-stompning,
Tongue-talking saint of the Living God!

With that definition of "saint" now firmly in mind, i would like you next to understand that hoodoo is the folk-magic of a group of people who are primarily Protestant, and not Catholic or Orthodox, hence the idea of "working with saints" (in the sense of "canonized" saints) is extremely uncommon in hoodoo practice. Working with ancestors and other spirits of the dead -- some of whom are "saints" in the Baptist and/or in Sanctified Church sense -- is more common, obviously.

The idea of "working with (canonized) (Roman Catholic) saints" has entered this Forum through the open door of the internet. About 1/4 of the inhabitants of the USA are Catholics, and many of them think that hoodoo is a universal form of magic accessible to all, which, despite its origins among Protestant African Americans, they think they can modify to suit their own religious traditions.

In a sense they are right. They can do this. There are no "hoodoo police" stopping them from working with Catholic Church approved spirits.

But in another sense they are wrong -- because in hoodoo, there is no ecclesiastical system of canonization and thus no set traditions of working with Catholic theological concepts at all.

What kind of saint are you?
A Sanctified Saint!
What kind of saint are you?
A Sanctified Saint!
A hand-clapping, foot-stompning,
Tongue-talking saint of the Living God!

Any Catholic Church traditions you see here in the Forum -- and they do appear on this Forum with great regularity -- are being brought in by people who grew up outside the traditional hoodoo and conjure practices of Black Protestant America. Many of these newcomers, in my experience with them as customers and clients, are actually unaware that hoodoo is the folk-magic of a primarily Protestant group of people.

Now you come into the mix and ask if you, as a "non-Christian," can work with a class or group of spiritual entities whom you define as "saints" but who are actually, historically and traditionally and contemporaneously outside the mainstream of hoodoo theology.

Sure. Go ahead. You can also work with Hindu deities, Taoist immortals, Hindu devas, Haitian loas, Lukumi orishas, and Shamanic animal spirits. It's your world, ultimately, that you live in, not mine or anyone else's

Now, because this Forum is about hoodoo, not about religion, your latest question, like your previous question, is being merged into the long and meandering thread about spirits, saints, deities, and all.
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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by magictinkerbell » Sat Sep 08, 2012 2:48 am

Working with a Saint over a 9 Novena
Just need to bounce this off to you guys, for a bigger insight really... (I can get wrapped up in my own little 'healer-worker-world' & I feel LM is great for a bigger perspective than just my little perspective :)

If I am conducting a '9 day Novena' to a Saint, with a LM honey Jar Kit / on a petition paper, but I know that realistically it will take a lot longer than 9 days, for that Saint to grant the petition to reality, the petition is very much a possibility, and the 9 day novena shows my dedication, love and trust to want to work with that Saint.
Also I have said IN my prayers that... > "As I know this may take longer, so I will give some of what I've pledged to the Saint after 9days... but on granting my petition.. I will give all of the pledge completely" Soooo:-

Whats the best way to continue after the 9 days ?... maybe burn a candle on the jar Mon Wed Fri or once a week ?

Or maybe none of the above ? Any insight much appreciated ?
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Archangel Michael my warrior protector-thank you

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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by aura » Sun Sep 09, 2012 4:03 am

Hi magictinkerbell,

Continuing the burning of candles on the honey jar until your petition is met is quite traditional. Some honey jars are worked for years and you can't even see the jar anymore due to all the wax on them!

For the petition to the Saint, no problem working the way you did although you don't actually have to give anything until you start getting results. You could also strike a deal and ask for certain signs at regular intervals with ''partial payment'' due at each milestone. Another alternative is to do a novena every month until you have petition granted. That way you consistently reinforce the work and prayer. Go with what feels right or use divination to ascertain what is best suited to work with the Saint in question.

Blessings.
Aura Laforest
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Thank you, St. Joseph of Cupertino

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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by magictinkerbell » Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:24 am

Thank you Aura, that is most excellent ! Great ideas, insight and help!! Especially doing it once a month to re-inforce the work :)
Will definitely follow all you've said

Love and blessings to you :)

MagicTink
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Archangel Michael my warrior protector-thank you

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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by VioletW » Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:36 am

I'm not quite sure where to begin with this......I will do my best to keep things concise. Please bear with me as I organize my thoughts as best I can.

I think I may have two jinni attached to me. This is a recent happening. The manner in which they approached me was very unusual. While I am not afraid of them, I do find their energy to be rather overwhelming at this time. I am honestly not sure what to do about this.....

Context & pertinent details:
1) There is quite a bit going on in my life right now. I am approaching a couple of major spiritual workings in the next few weeks, having just concluded nearly a decade of academic study. It is time for a lifestyle change, cleansing, and removal of the old/ushering in the new. My physical energy is low, my concentration isn't all there (I'm experiencing MAJOR burnout), and I really had to pare down my emotional and social life in order to get through graduate school, which can be an exhausting experience. So, I am tired and in need of renewal. I am already planning appropriate magical workings to help me through this transition.
2) I have always had a strong affinity for the aesthetic and culture of the greater Mediterranean region, and I naturally gravitate toward artifacts from the cultures in this area of the world. It feels intensely familiar to me. I have collected jewelry from Africa and the Near East for many years. After meeting these two jinni, I realized that this happening may (or may not) be related to my recent acquisition of a wonderful pair of vintage Tuareg (Berber) earrings. These are not the kind of earrings made for tourists; they are the real thing. So there is that.

Because of my low energy and feelings of general burnout, I am not getting a very clear impression of what (if anything) should be done about these two rather overwhelming new spirits I feel around me. Normally, when I am feeling better and have more energy, I have strong clairvoyance and my magical ability is very good. Right now though.......I'm really exhausted mentally, spiritually, and emotionally. I am having a lot of confusion about this issue......not sure if I should do some one-on-one work with a practitioner, perhaps sending the earrings to them for a proper cleansing - or if that might anger these two spirits which really don't seem malevolent at this time. I am only assuming that these are jinni spirits, because of a particular feeling of spiritual nostalgia I get when I sense their energy (see pertinent detail #2).

The reason I am even posting is because after work today, the spirit energy was so overwhelming I needed to take a long nap I told the two jinni they could speak with me in my dreams if they wanted to. Instead, I had an elaborate dream about deception and things not being what they seem to be. This has only added to the confusion. Whew.....I need a freaking vacation.

(Edited for clarification)

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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by Doctor Hob » Tue Oct 02, 2012 1:57 pm

I would contact ConjureMan Ali, regarding this matter. He is adept at working with djinn, and may be best suited to helping you:

http://readersandrootworkers.org/index. ... ureMan_Ali
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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by VioletW » Tue Oct 02, 2012 5:40 pm

Thank you. I was considering doing just that. Thought I would post here first.

Things are better this evening.......I have managed to shut out some of the overwhelming energy, thank goodness.

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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by Miss Tammie Lee » Tue Oct 02, 2012 6:44 pm

Definately, contact Conjureman Ali:

http://readersandrootworkers.org/index. ... ureMan_Ali
dr.raven@theconjureman.com

Make certain to tell him about the jewelry.

Take care.
Work the Lucky Mojo products for you and for those that you hold dearly!
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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by VioletW » Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:02 pm

Thank you, Miss Tammie Lee.

I was able to get a hold of a friend tonight who is much more experienced with spirit communication than I am. She was able to confirm some things about these spirits for me (yes, they are djinn, & yes, their presence has to do with the earrings) and she give me some good advice. For the time being, things have calmed down. When I first posted, things felt much more urgent. I will reach out to CM Ali if need be in the future, though.

Thank you both for replying. I do appreciate it.

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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by nana664 » Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:22 am

Those who have the ability to communicate with the spirits like that are so lucky. I would LOVE to have that gift.
Thank you St. Anthony, for all you've done for me

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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by sarah22 » Thu Oct 18, 2012 2:32 pm

Hi,
Papa Legba gave me a gift out of the blue a while back but when I first went about getting things for an offering- coconuts and palm oil, I got the message very clearly that he would have taken that as an insult, because you don't pay for a gift. But now it feels right to show my gratitude here, like a thank you note. Is there a traditional way to show thanks to him?
Thanks, Sarah22

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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by Mary Bee » Thu Oct 18, 2012 4:37 pm

This is a forum about Lucky Mojo products, their use and the tradition of Hoodoo. Hoodoo is based in African American Protestant Christianity, which does not include Vodou spirits. I would suggest you contact a priest or priestess of Vodou and ask them to help you.

Good luck,
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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by sarah22 » Thu Oct 18, 2012 6:16 pm

Dear MaryBee,
Thank you- I didn't realise that he was Voudou not Hoodoo- thanks for the clarification! Best, Sarah

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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by Joseph Magnuson » Fri Oct 19, 2012 8:38 am

sarah22: Made sure to check out Hoodoo In Theory and Practice for further clarification of just what Hoodoo is! :)

You can find it here: http://www.luckymojo.com/hoodoo.html
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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by Caedryn » Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:00 pm

I am wondering, when working with Archangels such as Michael and Raphael, since they are so comprehensive and powerful in what they do, would a saint(s) be brought in as well for a particular problem, ie. Archangel Michael and Archangel Raphael plus St. Dymphna for mental health issues or St. Peregrine if one has skin problems, etc?

Or should the Archangels alone be petitioned without another Saint being involved?

Or does it matter?

What benefits might be achieved by combining an Archangel(s) and a worldly Saint?

Thanks!

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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by catherineyronwode » Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:16 pm

Caedryn, your post seems to speak to an unfamiliarity with Christian forms of veneration. I wish i could educate you in the ways of Catholic religion, but i am not a Catholic, and i don't think it is the proper role of any of us here to tell you about how to do what you call "combining an Archangel(s) and a worldly Saint."

Rather, i would ask you this: Do you have a spiritual relationship with an Archangel? If so, then speak to that being and ask.

Or, conversely, do you have a spiritual relationship with a Saint according to what seems to be Catholic Church definitions of sainthood? If so, speak with the saint or saints you are accustomed to approaching and ask them for guidance.

Also, for a broader definition of "saints" -- especially as found in African American hoodoo practices in the United States (and note that hoodoo is the subject of this forum) please read the post i wrote earlier in the year about the meaning of the word "saint" in Protestant Christianity:

deities,-angels,-spirits,-saints-questi ... ml#p111023

Good luck and God bless you.
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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by Caedryn » Tue Dec 04, 2012 6:22 pm

Thank you Cat, likewise to you as well.

I have a basic working knowledge of Saints and Archangels in the RC religion, and a little bit less for the Protestant religion, and very little knowledge on Archangels in the Jewish religion. I am aware of the difference between saints and archangels (did my research) in the Roman Catholic religion, but I am less knowledgeable in the Protestant religion.

Some of your saint candles are Catholic, so I thought this would be a good place to find knowledge on what I am asking about.

I do not have very much success communicating with angels, saints or spirits, so I rely on the folks here who have a better working knowledge/experience than I do on the subject. I have spent many hours going through tons of posts on your site, but did not find an answer to my question(s) as posted above, but I may just have missed it (tired eyes...so much information).

I know that there are a number of people on here who work with saints and archangels, and was hoping they might be able to provide me with an answer to my post above.

Thanks!

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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by Mama Micki » Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:20 am

People of all faiths can ask angels for help. Some also petition saints, although that is more of a Catholic practice. Petitioning both angels and saints is generally OK, but try going with just angels for now. You can start with your Guardian Angel. Lucky Mojo has many Guardian Angel supplies.
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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by Sitri » Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:33 pm

Hello to everyone. First of all, sorry for my grammar, i'm hispanic. I was searching to know about magic for a ritual, i contacted 2 persons, they told me they were gonna help me. The work was to get my ex-girlfriend back and they were gonna work with demons for it, at first i was like "What" and they asked me for some stuff that they needed for the work.

They've working for almost one month and a half, but since i've becoming really good friends with them, they also summoned me a demon of prosperity, a demon of protection with his wife and the sucubus, the one that was gonna get my girl back.

In their firsts appearings i was afraid coz i never experienced it before, they already touch me, talked to me in 4 languages, the protector once was telling the other demons to kill me but his wife protected me and said she was gonna protect me like if she was my mother and with a pen wrote a line in my penis (that part was in a dream when she did that), i felt great after that, also i had listened their breaths and more.

During the month and a half, i have been recieving money for everyone (not to much), my life is getting better and better, etc. The only thing that hasn't happened yet is that my ex is not back yet.

One week ago my friend told me the name of the demon, it is "Sitri", and told me her/his story, what it does, etc. And he told me how to summoned it, so we can work together and make the things happen faster.

I already did 3 summonings at midnight to copulate with Sitri and pacted with her. But now im gonna a do a hard one.

- I did a Red Triangle.
- In each corner of the triangle i'm gonna put a red votiva candle.
- In the middle of the triangle, im gonna put a picture of her and me with my semen, then on top a magnet and on top Sitri's seal (drawn by myself). And in the top of them a white candle covered with honey and salt.
- Out of the triangle, on the left, im gonna put one plate full with cinnamon and sugar. And on top Also Sitri's seal printed and the same picture of her and me with dry semen.
- Out of the triangle, on the right, im gonna write my petition, what i offered in change, etc.
- When everything is ready, i will call Sitri 108 times: Lirach Alora Vefa Sitri (Lir-atch all-o-rah veh-fa Sit-ree). Then i will read the text of my petition 3 times:
"I ____ (my full name) invocate you Sitri so you can take my sexual energy and feed yourself and feed myself. I also call you so if you can touch ____ (my ex-girl full name), seduce her, exasperate her libid and bring her to me with full of love and luxurie. Once she is with me, i offer you the energy generated of the copulation between her and me. And i also offer you during the time the energy of the copulation between me and any other girl.

What i wanna know, is if i'm doing it okay, or if i'm wrong at something or what advices can you tell me guys, coz this is the first time i colaborate with a demon and i really wanna get back with my ex. And also what im gonna see Sitri during the ritual, how i can comunicate with her during the ritual and how i will know if she is gonna seal the pact and how long it gonna take it to do my petition.

Greetings.

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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by MoonBreath » Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:02 pm

Caedryn, I was raised Protestant, but am now Catholic; therefore I am familiar with both views of Saints. Both Protestants and Catholics have in the Apostles Creed a belief in "the communion of saints", which means we believe if another member of the Body of Christ ( alive or dead ) offers prayers on our behalf, those prayers will help us. That is why the churches have Prayer Lists. If members of MY church are praying for me ... and members of YOUR church are praying for me ... and members at my next door neighbor's church are praying for me - then all those folks' prayers are adding more power to the prayer I'm saying myself at home. In short, yes ... ask an Angel to pray for you AND ask St. Joseph or St. Jude (or whichever historically holy example of Christian living may have a special connection to the issue) to pray for you as well. Also ask for prayers from local believers ( saints ) in your town or from the Crystal Silence League here on the forum. The more prayers for your cause, the better. Arch Angels won't be offended ;) Also, remember that lighting a candle represents a prayer - that is why people go in Catholic churches and light candles. That is why people who practice hoodoo light candles in their homes. You can back up your prayer request with prayers from others ( Angels and saints ) AND with a candle. Lucky Mojo has great candles for many different issues, as well as candles for different saints. The more help the better!

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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by catherineyronwode » Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:17 pm

Sitri --

Sitri is a Goetic demon, also known as Bitru -- but this forum is not a place to learn a lot about demons. This is a forum for the practice of African American folk magic from the Southern United States, commonly called hoodoo, conjure, or rootwork.

My husband nagasiva recommends that you go to the Facebook group called Satanity and ask your question there. The URL is

http://facebook.com/groups/satanity

Good luck!
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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by Caedryn » Sun Dec 09, 2012 3:55 pm

Moonbreath: Thank you, that makes a lot of sense to me. I have seen in some photos, where the pictures of the Archangels are larger than those of the Patron Saints, and wondered about the reason for this, and I thought one reason might be a 'chain' of command' type of thing (anyone know why the archangels picture would be larger? ). As an analogy, one goes through ones supervisor at work before going to his boss. But, from the way you described it, one can approach both an archangel and saint at the same time, to bring about what is needed at the time. Of course, one would continue to build the relationships with the archangels and saints after the need has passed. The scenario you describe was used by my wife for me when I had a serious illness. From volunteering, she knew both a Lutheran pastor and an Anglican Reverend, and she had both churches praying for me.

Mama Micki: I take it from your post, that it might be better initially to approach ones guardian angel since this angel(s) were assigned to you from birth, and therefore have a close relationship with you, where as you would have to approach and develop a relationship with a saint.
But, in my observation and opinion, I do not think everyone is born with a guardian angel, but that some people attain one by their efforts to do so. My reason for this, is that if one had a guardian angel from birth, then why do such terrible things happen to people. Just look at children and adults that are abused/killed. Where was their guardian angel to protect them, to guide them away from danger?

Thanks for your replies!

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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by Mama Micki » Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:23 am

Caedryn wrote:Mama Micki: I take it from your post, that it might be better initially to approach ones guardian angel since this angel(s) were assigned to you from birth, and therefore have a close relationship with you, where as you would have to approach and develop a relationship with a saint.
But, in my observation and opinion, I do not think everyone is born with a guardian angel, but that some people attain one by their efforts to do so. My reason for this, is that if one had a guardian angel from birth, then why do such terrible things happen to people. Just look at children and adults that are abused/killed. Where was their guardian angel to protect them, to guide them away from danger?
Evil exists in the world, but that doesn't mean that God and angels do not exist. Everyone has at least two guardian angels; many have more. No one's life is perfect, even those of us who do spiritual work. The problem of why "Good Things Happen to Bad People" has been asked for a long time. It was the title of a best-selling book and is the topic of the Book of Job in the Bible.
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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by Caedryn » Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:46 pm

For sure evil exists in the world, I agree, but as I said, it is opinion (right or wrong) that not all are assigned a guardian angel. Actually I wish that this was the case, but I cannot seem to believe in it, based on all that I have seen and experienced.

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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by Apollo Dark » Tue Dec 11, 2012 4:45 pm

Caedryn wrote:For sure evil exists in the world, I agree, but as I said, it is opinion (right or wrong) that not all are assigned a guardian angel. Actually I wish that this was the case, but I cannot seem to believe in it, based on all that I have seen and experienced.
In my beleif system, everyone has a Gaurdian Angel, or "Norn" as I refer to them.

Some people may have insulted or done something to anger their Norn, and because of this the Norn causes or does not stop Bad Things from happening to them.
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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by Caedryn » Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:53 pm

I think Guardian says it all, that is to Guard. If they are going to get insulted or angry, and then not guard, then, imo, they are failing in their duty to 'Guard' and that failure is based on a petty emotion...not in line with my thoughts about angels. I still think many if not most, do not initially have a guardian angel. That said, I really wish we all did.

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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by Tristan » Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:29 am

The idea that a guardian angel may depart from someone who has committed sinful deeds is actually maintained by certain Christian denominations, (e.g. the Orthodox Church).

In considering working with an angel and a saint for the same petition, it is perhaps helpful to recall that angels and humans are separate creations according to the Abrahamic faiths. In other words, an angel never experienced the human condition in the way a human saint has.

At any rate, my intention is not to theologize here, which is beyond the scope and purpose of this forum. There are a number of books available through Lucky Mojo that deal with saints and angels, which might be helpful. Here are a few titles to check out:

The 6th and 7th Books of Moses
The Encyclopedia of Angels by Richard Webster
The Magical Power of the Saints by Rev. Ray T. Malbrough

And here are some great links from the AIRR website on angels, saints, and working within various religious traditions:

http://readersandrootworkers.org/wiki/C ... Archangels
http://readersandrootworkers.org/wiki/C ... rch_Saints
http://readersandrootworkers.org/wiki/C ... Traditions

Each link contains links to many other pages, so be sure to check them all out! They’re very informative!

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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by period » Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:07 am

some very great perspectives wich i had not considered in my work, thanks for the great information

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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by Caedryn » Fri Dec 14, 2012 8:48 am

Thanks Tristan!

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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by Mama Micki » Sat Dec 15, 2012 8:06 am

Tristan wrote:In considering working with an angel and a saint for the same petition, it is perhaps helpful to recall that angels and humans are separate creations according to the Abrahamic faiths. In other words, an angel never experienced the human condition in the way a human saint has.
Actually, some believe that Archangels Metatron and Sandalphon were once human; Metatron was Enoch, and Sandalphon was Elijah. Those that believe this say that these angels have a special empathy and understanding of humans and their concerns.
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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by Tristan » Sat Dec 15, 2012 11:18 am

Thanks for sharing that Mama Micki. It's worth pointing out though that it is precisely because they were once human that they share such a strong empathy towards humans.

There are certainly many diverse beliefs about angels. Many of these beliefs have their roots in the Midrash, Talmud, Kabbalic texts and Merkabah mysticism.

One idea I always liked was the Jewish belief that every time a person does a mitzvah, a good angel is created. :)

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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by yellowstars » Thu Jan 24, 2013 8:46 am

This might seem like a really stupid question, but I'm very new. When you make an offering to a saint while praying to them and requesting something, what do you do with the offering? Flowers or wine, for instance, do you leave them sit at the alter for weeks? Or do you offer new ones each time? And when the request is granted, do you bury the offerings? Leave them somewhere?

Thank you! I've searched the forums but can't seem to find the answers!

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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by Mama Micki » Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:07 am

You can bury the offerings or leave them out in nature. I have an altar dedicated to Santisima Muerte, and I change the offerings once or twice a week. It also depends on what you are offering and your budget. For example, an offering of water could be changed every day, but an offering of an expensive liquor or wine might be changed less frequently.
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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by yellowstars » Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:24 am

Thanks, just what I was looking for :D

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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by TheBestest » Thu Jan 24, 2013 8:35 pm

Hello I have a couple of questions. Today I was working with one of the Saints in a petition of I noticed the flame was getting very low ,like almost extinguishing itself. Yesterday it did the same thing and I poured out a little of the wax. Anyways, today when I noticed it again, I took this as an immediate sign, and decided to put out the flame, and end the petition all together. So here's my first question, was it disrespectful to extinguish the flame or considered cheating that I this poured some out yesterday, and can I wait a few days to try this petition again? Sorry I guess that's now three questions lol.

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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by Priestess Divine » Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:57 pm

I personally believe that everyone has a Guardian Angel as well but may also have other Angels with them. According to the Good Book in Christian Religion, Angels were created by God to uphold the desires, words, ideas that God has spoken and ordained such as blessings, prosperity, joy, etc (you get the idea-the good works) and if/when you speak the things for which God has already ordained then the Angels will go and make it so. They also give us messages and protect. There are several instances of these acts in the Bible. Those things which we speak contrary to what God has ordained them to do will not be done by them. Its kind of like you work as a Chef and someone asks you to go do accounting. That is not your job. Lol. They are here to assist on our behalf as ordained by God. And it is also stated to be careful not to offend an Angel.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents. :D
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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by Primal_The_Learner » Sun May 19, 2013 5:18 pm

I have my altar set up in my bedroom and I am thinking about adding a small statue of Pan. He is a nature woodland diety. I feel a connection with Pan.

And I may also add a picture of Osirus the egyptian black god above my altar on the wall. I have had a dream about Osiris and feel a connection.

Can I use them in my Hoodoo work?

And how does pictures and statues of dieties effect spells?

Do they enhance the spellwork?

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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by catherineyronwode » Sun May 19, 2013 5:29 pm

hello, Primal_The_Learner,

I have merged your question into the general thread on deities.

Hoodoo is primarily the folk magic of African American Protestant Christians. However, like all occultists, hoodoo practitioners have individual connections to Christianity and at times to other religions. It is highly uncommon to put another god before Jehovah, as this is a direct breaking of the 2nd Commandment. However, people have always played fast and loose with it -- sometimes saying that the literal commandment "Thou shalt have no other gods before me'" means "no others in front of me" -- that is, on the altar -- or "more important to you than I am" -- that is, in your heart. These are UNCONVENTIONAL ideas within Judaism and Christianity, but they have continued to appear.

There are also practitioners of hoodoo who make easy accommodation for deities perceived as "spirits." For instance, folks may feel comfortable working with a "lucky Buddha" without worshipping or venerating Buddha or joining the Buddhist religion. There is a reason for this: Buddha statues -- especially those depicting Hotei -- have often been marketed as "lucky" in the USA, inexpensive pieces are readily available, and since the obtaining of gambling luck is important in mingled African and Native American culture, Buddha images can frequently be found in hoodoo.

Pan and Osiris, however, have not become part of the popular spiritual repertoire of hoodoo. Again, there are reasons for this: They have primarily been presented to the public in archaeological or mythological contexts, there are no commonly-agreed-upon reasons to work with them (e.g. for luck, for love, for money, for fame), images of them are rare, statuary of them is high-priced, and knowledge of them is limited. So Pan and Osiris have never gained traction within hoodoo culture.

Remember, first and foremost, hoodoo is a magical practice, not a religious one. So if a "foreign God" (to use the common Judeo-Christian term) is going to be appealed to within a hoodoo context, there had better be a pretty strong magical reason. Simply longing for a deity to venerate ain't gonna cut it 'cause hoodoo is the magic of primarily Christian people and we already have God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit on board.

Feeling "connected to" a deity makes sense, but if the connection is to be a part of your personal hoodoo work, there ought to be a magical reason, because, again, hoodoo is a form of magic, not a form of religion. For example, if you want to do sex magic and feel that Pan is up for it, then go to Pan. I personally have appealed to the Hindu god Siva for sexual love (and received my dream come true!).

In the end, how you believe and the religion to which you adhere is YOUR business, and no one is intent on dictating rules to you, as long as you understand that as a lone world, so to speak, you will not be able to change the culture of hoodoo.

Do pictures and statues affect or enhance spells? Some will tell you yes, some will tell you no. This is not a Sunday School. You must make your own way through the thickets of religion.

Good luck.
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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by Dr Johannes » Mon May 20, 2013 2:11 am

Primal_The_Learner wrote:I have my altar set up in my bedroom and I am thinking about adding a small statue of Pan. He is a nature woodland diety. I feel a connection with Pan.

And I may also add a picture of Osirus the egyptian black god above my altar on the wall. I have had a dream about Osiris and feel a connection.

Can I use them in my Hoodoo work?

And how does pictures and statues of dieties effect spells?

Do they enhance the spellwork?
As for me, these statues and pictures are a bit like Skype or an open window. You can address them or they may address you , prior to, during or after the spellwork. They may answer questions, help with the work or just add a comment or so depending on the communication between you and the spirit, deiety etc.

If you have to ask someone else if you can use them in your work, you are not ready to add them to your work. It means you have yet to learn divination and develop your spiritual perception a bit more. Adding spirits and deities blindly may be quite harmful to your work and your well being and is best to be avoided.

As a side note it would not then not be Hoodoo per se. Hoodoo is not general folk magic. It is a specific folk magic tradition that does not have a history or general work including include Pan or Osiris.
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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by sirjack206 » Sat Jul 06, 2013 12:04 pm

As a general bit of advice if you are not trained to work with demons, djinn, elementals, etc. and feel one is attacking, trying to communicate, trade, etc. please ask someone who is. Things can get out of hand faster than you can imagine.

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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by Jenny » Sat Jul 06, 2013 2:38 pm

Well, to get in contact with Djinn one has to do 'Daira' or 'Deira', which is quite complicated ritual and not a joke. Very few people can actually have Djinn help them as they travel thru time gathering information on the subject you are interested in. Usually that person is Imam or a Muslim priest ,if you wish.
Problem is , that they can represent themselves as the ones on God's side when in actuality they're not... they will also do few favors to gain your confidence , of course you have to do something for them in return ... They can't tell you the future. They also envy humans perfection as it's created in God's image. God is perfect. That's why they try to mate with humans , don't ask me how - that's a long story, in order to get closer to their goal.I'll just say that in our belief mentally challenged children are one of the examples as a result of such relationship. If happens that a woman developed a relationship with Djinn, then she is never to find a human partner as he considers himself that, and makes sure she ends up alone every time.
If you're of pure soul and strong character they can't rule you but you rule them - basically. Show any ( mental ),weakness and you're toasted. If contact is made with True one walking in God's light then he is a 'friend' for life. If not then GOOD LUCK with that. There have been reports of people going crazy in split second... ending up on roof of some random house... losing everything and so on. I can't talk details here really but I do know what I'm talking about. Doing magic and ' fry a spell for or to someone' is common where I'm originally from. We are naturally on look out for such things and always make sure we clean house after guests, check couch and under the carpets... remove clothes from bathroom and combs with hair ... anything personal and we all know it here why, right ... Prime example is my aunt ... her and my mom are still in this so called magic war... once she came by and as she was leaving and reaching for her shoes and put something under the carpet... my mom caught on to it and quickly collected finger nails she put there and as she was saying bye to her - put those finger nails right back into my aunts pocket. Mom knows it - aunt knows it. It was so awkward. Every time she would call on a phone seconds after it would be a Mayhem in our house. Everybody would be fighting each other, nervous and ready to snap someone's head off. My mom would do some cleaning, then all of us had to pee in a bucket .. she would take some of that pee in a syringe , go to her house and spray her door with it saying something which I don't remember...
Anyway, be careful with Djinns. My 2 cents.

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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by ConjureMan Ali » Wed Jul 24, 2013 11:34 am

As a person who actively works with djinn regularly, who is one of only a handful of people in the United States with an authentic lineage of djinn conjuring and who is an initiate and Shaykh in the magical traditions of North Africa and the Near East with ijazaa to perform and teach this work, I can tell you that the belief that handicap children or children born with mental defects are the offspring of djinn is bizarre and not common. This may be a regional belief that you have or one particular to your family, but not one that is espoused by any authentic lineage of rouhinyah, Al-Hikmah, nor Marabout.

To learn more about the djinn you can read the following article at AIRR written by yours truly:

http://www.readersandrootworkers.org/wiki/Djinn
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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by Jenny » Thu Aug 22, 2013 7:05 pm

Yes, that is the belief among Muslims in my country. Actually Hajji's keep bringing that up.
Personally I don't see how would that happen so I can't say that I believe that part of it. I'm just sharing ( little but ), of what we've been told for generations about them. See, I've been told that even talking about them can 'call' and one would usually hear a crack or a knock or some kind of noise out of nowhere. It's them letting you know they're present.
I don't question your competency , knowledge and experience in this matter Ali, but I won't say any different from what I know and couple million people in my country. Might be wrong but that's the belief, unfortunately.
Bottom line, it's serious business and just like you brought up, not many people can - or are dealing with them.

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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by ConjureMan Ali » Sun Aug 25, 2013 4:23 am

Call me, ConjureMan Ali. It is my proper title.

Keep your personal beliefs on this matter to yourself. This is a forum dedicated to Lucky Mojo products and while we allow for some leeway in discussing other folk practices, keep personal beliefs to yourself especially given such a sensitive and delicate subject as mental handicaps. I am sure you do not mean it come off that way, but it can be deemed quite offensive to anyone outside of your group of believers. Also be careful of speaking for an entire nation or religion, you would be making a grave mistake in doing so, especially as what you've espoused is not supported by orthodox Islam, traditional teachings about the djinn, nor any current of djinn tradition known world-wide.

Consider this a request from your friendly moderator. Keep yourself to the guidelines of the forum and offer something actually helpful--your post failed on both accounts.

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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by Janis » Tue Sep 03, 2013 3:46 pm

Greetings to all,

Well, I have a long time experience dealing with spirits like Eshus, but something have been bothering me lately. I have been waking every night at 3 am (or around) for many different reasons ( a mosquito, a noise, going to the bathroom, a nightmare...) for a few months now. I feel there is someone "visiting", but not a human ghost or ancestor. I used camphor squares and salt in the house and also incenses, oils, candles, psalms and cleansing baths (Fiery Wall of protection oil, Mojo Hand etc) but I am still being awake every single night. Nothing wrong is going on, although I have nightmares about being attacked very frequently but my life is not bad... things are normal (yet). In one of my dreams I have been persecuted by a hooded man in a dark place but a Djinn came (he had lizard eyes) and gave me ACACIA wood sticks (burning smoke) to protect me. Birds come to my window in a bizarre behavior, staying in my varanda silently for minutes, and some of them are Hawks (I live in a high building in Rio de Janeiro). I would like to know if someone knows why I am waking up at this very time every night and if possible, how can I put an end to this. I take chamomile, passion fruit and tilia teas to try to have a full night sleep but it doesn't work. I tryed Valeriana (Vandal Root), Salix Alba (white Willow), Crataegus Oxyacantha (Hawthorn) too, with no results. I do not like to take industrial medicine and honestly I know it is not a health issue. If someone could please help I would be grateful.

I study Hoodoo for many years and am proud to be an authorized LMCC reseller in Brazil.

Thanks, J.

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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by Miss Aida » Tue Sep 03, 2013 4:04 pm

Good Evening, Janis,
I read your post and then went back to all the posts on this thread. Have you also done this? There's some very good advice posted.
I don't know anything about Djinn but Conjureman Ali is an expert and HIGHLY suggest that you contact him.
Although many things come to mind about what you've said, the mere fact that the Djinn showed up makes me step back to this situation and I really don't want to make any UNeducated guesses.
Take Care of yourself and good luck to you
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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by Janis » Fri Sep 20, 2013 5:12 pm

Unbelievable.I was writting this and when I pressed "preview" it vanished...


Thank you, Miss Aida for your kind words. Sorry for taking so long to reply but my computer broke down just after I posted this question, we had a tropical storm in Rio that might have damaged my computer. It was shutting down after switched on, not working anymore. I had to buy another one. Of course I could have gone to a Lan House but I am not a fan of technology to that point. I use internet mainly for business or studies. I own an old style physical shop. 
Abut the Djinn, yes, I will try to talk to ConjurerMan Ali, I have great respect for his work. And I did research the Forum but couldn’t find anything regarding the awakening at this specific time (3 am). I tried Camphor Squares, Salt and banishing but it didn’t work. I even thought about using the “Tibetan Purging Incense Powder” but I thought it could be taken as an attack, and I do not want this. Whatever is here is not hostile to me. I even think it is somehow protective.
Last Friday I decided to clean the house with the help of a friend. I used Lemongrass (Citronella oil, Saltpeter and Eucalyptus Oil, in water, a floor wash). We cleaned everything, from the floors to my furniture, and we fumigated the house with asafetida and “palo santo”. Things were fine until we got to the kitchen, the last place to be cleaned. As soon as we started, the shelf were I kept my crystals (wine glasses, liquor bottles, fine china, tea cups…) fell down broken and there was glass everywhere. Although it may be seen as a bad omen, I felt a release. And indeed things in my life that seemed blocked finally worked… business/papers, etc. I also heard that an old time enemy had serious trouble at the very same time it happened, just after a toucan bird perched his fence (toucan is considered the South American crow).
I keep awakening at 3 AM, and lately I have had dreams about sand dunes, shooting stars, the sea (stormy, shaken), ocean caves and sigils carved in stone. The hawks now are nesting on the penthouse of my building, just over my head, and in the sunny mornings they go squawking and flying around noisily, 6 or 7 of them. I know very little about the Djinn but I do know some of them have the ability to shape shift into birds just like the Eshus do. I do not know what is happening but I feel is something odd… not necessarily bad.
Please let me know what you think if you want, I believe everybody has experiences and valuable views to share and enlighten… your opinion is very welcomed. Any help or guidance would be appreciated.
Best regards,
J.

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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by Miss Aida » Sun Sep 22, 2013 7:53 pm

Hi, Janis,
Again, if this is all related to the Djinn, I just don't want to give you any ideas of what I think because I could be 100% wrong.
The 3:00 am does indeed deem mystical. The other things that have been happening to you (after cleansing) seem favorable. However, I don't know Djinn and I don't think anyone else will touch this except for the expert, Conjureman Ali.
I am so sorry that I couldn't be much more help to you. Just afraid to give you bad advice!!! And no advice is better than bad advice: right?
Take Care and wishing you the best
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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by Papa Newt » Mon Sep 23, 2013 5:55 am

I also strong encourage you, Janis, to contact Conjureman Ali.

He is the only A.I.R.R. member, as far as I know, who work with Djinn.
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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by ConjureMan Ali » Mon Sep 23, 2013 2:58 pm

Janis if by Eshus you are referring to the Exu of Quimbanda and Umbanda, then fortunately I am familiar with them as well as Djinn as in addition to being a djinn conjurer I am also a Tata of the Afro-Brazilian tradition of Quimbanda and work with Exu extensively.

Djinn to appear in the guise of animals and acacia does feature prominently in North African magical practices, but not as a cleansing agent, but rather to strengthen spiritual contact and communication. Furthermore, 3 AM is associated with a variety of spiritual activity. In Afro-Brazilian traditions, 3 AM is a time associated with kiumbas, in djinn tradition, 3 AM is one of the times along with Midnight, Sunset, and right before Sunrise when djinn are most active, and in some Christian sects, 3 AM is significant for spiritual and mystical activity. The latter has been made popular by various exorcist movies.

For cleansing, I do certainly encourage the use of Camphor.
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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by Sharon Athena » Mon Sep 23, 2013 5:22 pm

What color candle would I use when praying to St Nicholas II the Passion-Bearer?

Yeah, I get that he's probably not a saint anyone on this forum's familiar with BY THAT NAME, but y'all may remember him as Tsar Nicholas II, the last Tsar of Russia.

Who he is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_II_of_Russia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canonizati ... e_Romanovs


I have a personal, past-life connexion with him and because of that, he's a patron saint of mine (along with St Michael, whose feast day's my birthday, St Dymphna, the patroness of the mentally ill -- I have medicated Bipolar II -- St Patrick, St Columcille, St Maximillian Kolbe, et cetera).

I want to have him on my Family altar, but can't figure out what would be the best color for candles, cloths, etc, for him specifically. Thanks in advance for any and all answers.

PS: Family is a ginormous issue for me, as a lot of the magickal work I do revolves around protecting what family I have left.
Sharon Athena, Druidess (1973)
Mikhail Nikolaievich Simonov, Major, Russian Imperial Army (1884-'43)

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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by Miss Aida » Mon Sep 23, 2013 6:17 pm

Hello again, Sharon Athena,
When in doubt, use white. ALWAYS.
Thanks for telling us that he became a Saint. Didn't know that!!
Take Care
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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by Janis » Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:42 pm

Hi Miss Aida! Thank you so much for the reply; you are very sweet and kind. No need to be sorry, I understand your position and agree.  But is always nice to talk to another person that has the sensibility to comprehend what we mean. Sharing experiences with respect and knowing people is always very pleasant. Perhaps we can engage in deeper conversations on other topics soon!
Kindest regards!!

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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by Janis » Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:47 pm

ConjurerMan Ali, thank you for your words. Yes, I am talking about the Exus of the Quimbanda/Umbanda!! My respects to you, Tata, “Mojuba”. My husband knows the author Nicholaj de Mattos Frisvold, he just wrote a review on my husband’s book about the Goetia and the Stellar Tradition. We know he is also related to Quimbanda. I work with the Exus since early age; I am Brazilian and initiaded in Candomble and Umbanda, named “Ogunté”. I am fascinated with them, and lately noticed in my research that some of them actually have lots in common with the Djinn (People of the Woods for instance). Having said that, I didn’t know this time at night was related to them, as I am not so familiar with Quimbanda (Kiumbanda). Usually Midnight is called “the Hora Grande”, the power time to connect to Exu, so I never made a connection between 3 AM to Exus directly… Very interesting.
I realized this contact was of a friendly kind, that’s why I didn’t want to banish it away. In the other hand, my mother-in-law wants to separate me from my husband and performs workings with kiumbas and eguns to do so… Cemetery workings, so it makes a lot of sense if there are kiumbas around awaking me up. Or Djinns trying to warn me about them, what seem to be more the case. Last night I dreamed of a green hummingbird landing on my finger, in a Park. It was small, light and delicate, very real sensation. In the dream I said “Thank You Djinn, I always wanted this to happen” looking up at the tall trees. I felt protected and blessed. I am wearing every day around my neck a “Fiery Wall of Protection Mojo Bag” from LM, fed at every full moon with the dressing oil, and have Camphor Squares on every corner of my home, basil too. But the visitor does not go away. It is ok by me, I just wanted to be able to sleep a whole night without being awaken, and that’s all. So sometimes I get up and say out loud “would you please let me sleep” and go back to bed… no big deal. But I was wondering why it came after me, why it is here trying this contact, I know it is not an Exu… it is more diaphanous… Exus are densest. I am very interested in understanding. I don’t know much about the Djinn, but I was thinking the other day on it and remembered that last year I had a trip to a wild beach in Brazil and that I entered an Ocean Cave in a low tide time with a group so maybe I could have drawn the attention of one of them there? There was a cat on that beach what I found extremely odd and I went petting the cat… even took pictures of it because it wasn’t bothered by the waves breaking near it and everybody found it cute… I mean, there are Exus from the Sea, the Beach, etc, so maybe the same goes for the Djinn?? They are related to the desert, but some deserts are near the shore… it seems to have liked me for some reason, followed and decided to stay… and staying it decided to become a guardian… would it be dangerous? Anyway, sorry for this immense post. It feels good to be able to talk about something and not feeling weird.
Thank you again,
Best,
J.

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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by Janis » Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:52 pm

Thank You, Papa Newt, I will talk to him about it. I am very happy to be here among you in this Forum.
Best Regards!

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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by Mia » Mon Sep 30, 2013 7:09 pm

Hie there , I don't know if anyone can help , this is my 3rd week of petitioning st martha , initially , everything was positive , I felt immediately calmer about a certain issue I was having at home and I was less depressed for the first time in months and revived immediately after , I felt her energy every time I prayed and the past few weeks I have been having a few lucky coincidences financially (I know she is not for drawing money but I did ask her to help me little by little everyday ) we are not talking big sums but it all just seemed too convenient to happen by itself but my major petition to solve a problem with an ex , I haven't seen much movement with though I believe that she has calmed a troublesome situation with some trouble some neighbours
Now my question is that last night I had a strange dream , I was holding a tiny little rag doll ( thumb size ) like like a worry doll and it was all dressed in red and white , I was talking to it then I had to place it on top of a wardrobe , every time I did this it fell , so I shouted across the room to this man who came and took the doll from me, he said we need to have a look at what is happening
He threw the doll into the grate ( I think the fire was on ) and it popped out and he repeated this 3 times and the same thing kept happening ,then he turned to me and said this woman says no! 3 times I have asked her and 3 times she has said no! In the
Dream I knew who the woman was but I did not immediately think st martha , then he continued to say if you continue petitioning her "for this " something bad will happen .
And then I woke up
Now I have reason to believe that st martha agreed to work with me because of the change in me and what has happened in my life since I started petitioning her , too many little miracles and happy coincidences through out since , also weirdly enough I have never been a coffee drinker but since I started petitioning her I am constantly craving coffee and I would rather sit/ sleep
On the floor than be on a bed or couch , to me I thought all this meant I was in touch with her but this dream has left me questions , I however feel her presence when I pray one day I was so overcome suddenly out if nowhere during prayer I felt a comfort and love that made me so sad , euphoric and warn inside at the same time as I was talking about a relative s health problems among other things I was asking her to dominate now there are three petitions not yet granted and 6 Tuesdays left to go
I don't know what this dream means or wether it's just a random dream , I have tried to get in touch with root workers to no avail as there aren't many in the uk , I searched on the Internet and so some in America that I know nothing about and most seemed ridiculously over priced and considering my financial circumstances at the moment it's out of question any way , now what I am wondering is if anyone has any advice for me pertaining this situation ? any at all or any insights will be more than appreciated , also if anyone knows a reasonably priced root worker /reader that does international work as I said I am not particularly rich at the moment so please don't suggest someone who is overpriced , thank you for reading and Blessings to you all
Mia

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Re: Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Unread post by Miss Aida » Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:48 pm

Hello, Mia,
I'm sorry but it really would be close to impossible to figure out any of this without a reading. There's too many conflicting messages in what's happening to you and what you're dreaming.
I can suggest our readers and root workers (members of AIRR) to you.
Take a look and see which one you think it good for you: http://readersandrootworkers.org.
I wish you the very best.
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