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Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by catherineyronwode » Thu Jan 13, 2011 9:35 pm

To johnford, :

Like ConjureMan Ali, i have never had a negative reaction handed to me, but then, i discuss these matters with those who are part of my community. I mean, would you try to walk into an Italian restaurant and order coconut milk soup with lemon grass?

Get my point?

Your problem is not that people dislike hoodoo -- your problem is that you are not hooking up with Lucky Mojo. It is a domestic tradition of more than 100 years standing that folks who practice conjure tend to pick up supplies by mail order -- and at Lucky Mojo we are here to serve you in that old-time great tradition.

-----

To Aariadne

The fact that Baptist Christians practice hoodoo and that most conjure practitioners of African American descent are either Baptists or Spiritualists is so well known in this field as to be taken for granted by most of us. The reason is not that most Baptists endorse hoodoo -- it's that most African Americans are Baptists. A lot of our work is prayer, and many of us use the Psalms. It's folk magic, and it co-exists with religious practices.

I am not sure what you mean by "rituals" because the word is interpreted so many ways. But we don't usually call what we do "rituals" -- most of the old timers call the work of casting a conjure spell a "job" or "tricking" or "throwing" or "helping yourself" or some such other term.
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by Lunaislight » Sat Jan 15, 2011 7:47 pm

Mikki is right about when people hear Hoodoo they think Voodoo. When in all reality its not . I have never had a problem with reactions, and the shop I go to happens to sell a lot of Lucky Mojo Products. But I do get reactions from others who do not understand .. thats why you just learn to feel people out and see if they can handle that kind of info.

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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by Spiritualitygirl » Sun Jan 30, 2011 9:29 pm

Hey John, as other people have said, I think fear and ignorance about Voodoo or Witchcraft or whatever religion has been twisted by media or other people who aren't open. When it is different, they are scared. It's okay. In order for us to have the freedom to believe what we believe, we have to honor (not necessarily accept) the right for others to believe what they do.

I do most of my shopping online - LuckyMojo has SO MUCH!!

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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by catherineyronwode » Mon Feb 28, 2011 4:22 pm

The following question was asked of me in another forum, and i replied therein. Because it relates to this topic, i am reposting it here, minus the original poster's screen name:

> I am looking to take the hoodoo rootwork course,
> but the one thing I need to resolve is the one
> thing that I never expected to be an issue. I
> revere Jesus as a great teacher, but as a Pagan
> I cannot convince myself to associate with
> Christianity in any ritual work. How can I
> resolve this?

That's a good question, but i am not sure you will like my answer.

African American hoodoo, such as i teach, and such as is practiced throughout the United States, is called by academics "Christo-Conjure." The reason it is given this name is that it is the folk magic of Christians.

You do not need to be a Christian to take my course, but why would one such as you, who by reason of vows or beliefs, cannot "associate with Christianity in any ritual work," want to take a one-year course in the magical arts of Christians? The very idea would seem to be torture to you.

I assume that you could not take a course in Hindu folk magic, Jewish folk magic, Taoist folk magic, Cherokee folk magic, or Congo folk magic either -- for all of those traditions of magic are linked into (and some are directly mediated by) priests, believers, and adherents of religions outside your Pagan frame of reference.

I do not require my students to be Christians, by any means, but i do require them to participate in the form of work that i teach, as i teach it.

For some Pagans (and Jews, and Hindus, and Taoists, etc.) there is no problem working as a "guest in the house of Christ" while learning hoodoo rootwork. Many Pagans who have enrolled in the course have made very good students, and several have gone on to become my colleagues at the Association of Readers and Rootworkers. I believe that if one is comfortable and happy with the Black Baptist tradition (the majority religious thread in hoodoo), that one can approach and participate in conjure from perspectives as diverse as Gardernian Wicca, Reform Judaism, Spiritualism, Catholicism, Native American Shamnism, Santeria, Palo, and Islam.

However, as you know, there are many courses and classes in Pagan folk magic, and if Christianity is off-limits for you, then i suggest you study folk magic in the tradition to which you are most loyal and in which you are most comfortable. In other words, the limitation is yours, not mine, and if it prevents my teaching you, then so be it, and let us merry part. :-)

Rev. catherine
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by ShadowInPurple » Mon Feb 28, 2011 6:36 pm

Ms. cat,

That was a very respectful mature response.

Truth be known, many of our forefathers AND foremothers in the 'old country' had folk or shall I say, extracurricular or extraecclesiastical activities IN ADDITION to the religious customs which were the norm. So you had little-old ladies who went to church everyday AND talked to the rose bush, could use the evil eye from fifty paces and kept a lemon with pins over their doors and, they didn't even know it, only that they learned it from their grandmothers. Though the church was in the center of town the average person still had customs which were "up in the hills" however they and Pagans still practiced 2 religions, one public and the other private. The difference was they kept the latter in their hearts and out of the public's eyes certainly away from the church. The reason was plain, the persecution and public castigation was very real and very frightening for Pagans. Of course it is also true today, to a lesser extent but I wouldn't wish to find out.

There was a time, actually not too long ago, when we both could have ended up in shackles in a dungeon then summarily met fate in the public square like Joan of Arc. We have fought long and hard to be re-recognized as a practicing faith that should not have to "stay in the shadows" or be watered down. Pagans by and large can't ignore these burning times and various episodes of hypocrisy and negative feelings by certain traditions. To do so requires a very special person. But they keep their distance and live their lives and give others the same respect. And we have attracted people by showing them that there is a difference, a healthy distinct difference that unburdens them from guilt, shame, unworthiness and threats in mainline religious activities. We don't say one's better, just different, distinct. We can learn about each other and be friends. Merry meet, Merry part, Merry may we meet again.

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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by ConjureMan Ali » Mon Feb 28, 2011 10:32 pm

ShadowInPurple ,

While your post is interesting, it does not reflect an accurate view of history, nor a true understanding of the relationship between conjure and Christianity.

First, the emphasis on how paganism was persecuted is grossly taken out of context and completely confused. First, despite claims to the contrary, there is no concept of a monolithic "paganism" in the ancient, or classical world. So a mass persecution of "pagans" is by definition completely misleading. Second, persecution is not something perpetuated by pagans, but rather an act of intolerance by religions of a great many denominations. Christians and non-Christians both suffered at the hands of oppressors. To emphasize the martyrdom of one over the other as if one was somehow a victim is simply misleading.

Finally, there was no religion of private vs. religion of public in conjure. Conjure doctors are as varied as any other peoples. Some were extremely devout and others often had run-ins with the church. However, primarily conjure doctors were accepted members of community who took on leadership roles within the church. The idea that they hid their practices is a misconception. Many reverends and pastors also were conjure doctors and their preaching from the pulpit was not merely a show. It is mistaken to assume that there is a dichotomy between the religion of conjure doctors and their practices. Your pastor was just as likely as to preach from the pulpit as he was to take out some olive oil, anoint you and pray over you right in the center of church.

To understand the intertwined relationship of conjure and its practictioners you might consider looking into the life of Jim Jordan who was brought before his church and asked to refrain from certain works while his other conjure practices were completely and openly accepted.

As Miss cat said, you don't have to be a Christian to practice conjure, but if you want to partake in the tradition you need to get right with Jesus and the Bible.
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by catherineyronwode » Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:07 am

So true, ConjureMan Ali:

Jim Jordan, a famous conjure doctor of North Carolina, scryed for his clients with a palm ball (a small crystal ball held in the hand), but at some point card-cutting (telling fortunes with playing cards, using the old three-card cut) was frowned upon in his church. He was a floor member of his local Baptist church all his life, as well as an herb doctor and conjure worker, and he was also a Freemason in the Prince Hall Lodge system (that is, the African American tradition of Freemasonry). His church funeral was widely attended. He was a powerful member of his community.
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by ShadowInPurple » Tue Mar 01, 2011 10:35 am

ConjureMan Ali wrote:

"[D]espite claims to the contrary, there is no concept of a monolithic "paganism" in the ancient, or classical world. So a mass persecution of "pagans" is by definition completely misleading."

I don't think I said Pagans were monolithic anywhere in the post. For example, the Romans and Druids were clearly apart from each other when Emperor Augustus said you can't be a Roman and a Druid/Gaul at the same time.

The Christian church was the "monolith" and to deny the Church's part in persecution of Pagans as well as Christians who were political enemies by accusing them of being Pagan, is irresponsible and very misleading and inaccurate.

And I have yet to see mainline acceptance of the occult by the American Baptist Churches, the Church of God in Christ, the Roman Catholic Church, etc. other than the Unitarian Universalist Association which is diverse enough to embrace many different paths.

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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by catherineyronwode » Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:05 pm

ShadowinPurple,

Several of us have affirmed, based on our experiences, that "hoodoo is a form of folk magic practiced by African Americans, the majority of whom are Christians." We have been talking about conjure practitioners and the forms of religion in which they were raised and in which they work conjure. As i wrote but a few short posts ago, "The fact that Baptists practice hoodoo and that most conjure practitioners of African American descent are either Baptists or Spiritualists is so well known in this field as to be taken for granted by most of us. The reason is not that Baptists endorse hoodoo -- it's that most African Americans are Baptists. A lot of our work is prayer, and many of us use the Psalms. It's folk magic, and it co-exists with religious practices."

We affirm that hoodoo is imbued with Protestant Christian concepts, values, prayers, and methods of working.

Your counter-statement that you "have yet to see mainline acceptance of the occult by American Baptist Churches" is a contentious and provocative change of subject.

You are talking about the edicts or promulgations of a vast swath of formal clerical hierarchies (there are dozens of different Baptist Conventions in the USA), but not about practitioners at all.

Furthermore, you are describing the views of these unnamed Baptist Conventions with respect to "the occult," a topic far different from "folk magic," which is our topic here.

This type of argumentation is called "changing the goalposts." Whether or not you intended it as such, if it is long continued, it will only drag the discussion off-topic, and that will lead to deletions of posts, warnings, and even bannings if persisted in.

Please understand that this forum is not about "the occult" and it is not about religions. This thread exists to inform people who inquire about hoodoo and religion that conjure arose among and is primarily practiced by Protestant Christians, and that hoodoo is not a form of West African, Central African, or Diasporic African religion, nor a form of Religious Neo-Paganism, nor a "path" in the sense that you used the term when describing the Unitarian Universalist church.

Hoodoo is an endemic, multi-cultural American form of folk magic, and, just as Pow Wow magic arose, developed, and found wide cultural acceptance among German-Americans of the Dutch Reformed Church, a Protestant Christian denomination, so did hoodoo arise, develop, and find wide cultural acceptance among African-American members of the Baptist Church, with outliers in other Christian denominations, as outlined above in my earlier posts on African American religious demographics.

'Nuff said.
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by ConjureMan Ali » Tue Mar 01, 2011 2:50 pm

ShadowinPurple,

My point about "paganism" was not directed towards you, but was to give context for my points later in the post. That said, you capitalize "Pagan" in your sentences and say, "Pagans by and large can't ignore these burning times and various episodes of hypocrisy and negative feelings by certain traditions," you imply that there is such a thing called Paganism to be persecuted. In reality such a concept of Paganism was never envisioned by the people involved in these traditions. These were rather the ancient and classical religions of the nations.

The idea of a "burning times" is a historical fallacy that is based on a gross oversimplification. This is perpetuated by a simplistic and superficial understanding of history. This isn't to say that persecutions did not occur on both sides (the Roman state religion, which according to your use of the term, would be pagan committed the most systematic and extensive persecution of Christians that their sheer numbers remains unrivaled today), however to imply that Christianity as a "monolithic" structure (also incorrect Christianity is as vast and myriad as any religion) had some program or standard policy of persecuting pagans is completely inacccurate.

Christianity was indeed adopted as the state religion of empires and nations, but by and large there was no universal agreement on what Christianity was. As a result Christianity spent the majority of the time trying to outline what being Christian meant. This involved attempts to correct what was believed to be incorrect teachings. Did these spiral into persecutions? Absolutely, but many of the major persecutions that modern pagan movements try to point to as being persecutions of paganism were in reality targeted at Christians themselves.

Allow me to illustrate: The persecutions in North Africa by St. Augustine (one of the figures neopagans point to as a perpetuator of persecution) killed more Donatists than any other religious sect. Donatists were a heretic sect of Christianity. Indeed his very intention was to deal with the issues the Donatists created as outlined in his own writings. The Inquisition: targeted heretical Christians--in fact it was the motiviation of the Inquisitions theological founders the Dominicians, whose sole aim was to correct what they viewed as "misguided" *Christian teachings. How about the "European" Crusades? That's right the number one target and victim was Cathar Christians, other Christian sects, and the Jews of Germany. But what about the witch hunts? Didn't they kill off witches? Nope, the majority of the people killed were Christians who were considered outsiders--this is the case in the Salem Witch Hunts too.

The point I am trying to illustrate is that the idea of a mass persecution of "pagans" during a "burning time" is a misconception and oversimplification of history. The institution of the Church was more interested in consolidating its position which they did by trying to "correct" other Christian sects. This absolutely led to persecutions. However more often than not these killings resulted in a large number of Christian, Jewish, and Muslim deaths rather than "pagan" deaths. The point however is that the idea that there was some policy or program of dealing with "pagans" is completely incorrect. Nor was there a mass persecution of "pagans."

You say, "And I have yet to see mainline acceptance of the occult by the American Baptist Churches, the Church of God in Christ, the Roman Catholic Church, etc. other than the Unitarian Universalist Association which is diverse enough to embrace many different paths." I am sorry, but you are again incorrect. "Occultism" and "paganism" are not one in the same thing. In fact to equate the two as you do shows an ignorance of what occultism is that is on par with those you claim to be intolerant. Please re-examine the major occult figures of history and consider their religions: John Dee, Maimonides, Agrippa, Albertus Magnus, Al-Buni--all either Christians, Jews, or Muslim.

Today I have yet to see a mainline persecution or burning of neopagans, wiccans, and occultists by American Baptist Churches, the Church of God in Christ, The Roman Catholic Church etc.

I fully appreciate that many people have issues with various religions and institutions, but let us not distort historical reality in order to justify our biases.

Now, let us respect Miss cat's request and follow the forum rules by avoiding further posts on this topic. Instead I welcome you, as well as anyone else who has contentions with my points or seeks clarity, to PM me. Since my advanced degrees are in religious history and I just finished teaching a course on the subject, I am only too happy to illuminate and educate.
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by catherineyronwode » Tue Mar 01, 2011 3:07 pm

OMG, ConjureMan Ali! A post featuring the Donatists! You just made my day!

(Well, actually Miss Bri started off making my day with the announcement of Jasper's birth, but you have added materially to my sense of delight, this first day of March, 2011.)

The Donatists. My my my. Whatever will be next? The Novatianists? The Circumcellions? The blooming Anabaptists? The mind reels!
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by Joseph Magnuson » Tue Mar 01, 2011 3:08 pm

This thread just became my official Tuesday afternoon historical lesson/novella! Thank you all for the rousing (if not slightly off-topic...slightly) conversation. Level headed, intelligent, and well researched discussion makes my day brighter!

-Joseph M.
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by ConjureMan Ali » Tue Mar 01, 2011 3:11 pm

My pleasure Miss cat! It gives me no end of pleasure to see your scholarly mind tickled <3
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by ShadowInPurple » Tue Mar 01, 2011 3:28 pm

Miss cat wrote:

"Please understand that this forum is not about "the occult" and it is not about religions. "

then ConjureManAli said...

"you need to get right with Jesus and the Bible."

What does "get right" mean? Is that "not about religions"?

Mss cat wrote:

"This type of argumentation [...] if it is long continued, [...] will only drag the discussion off-topic, and that will lead to deletion of posts, warnings, and even bannings if persisted in. "

Are debates therefore argumentative?

Go ahead and ban everyone who debates and be done with it, myself included.

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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by ConjureMan Ali » Tue Mar 01, 2011 3:54 pm

ShadowInPurple,

Try to understand that this is a *product* forum. You are welcome to debate in PM, or on forums about religion, general occultism etc. We have tried addressing the points, but unfortunately you do not seem to understand what we are getting at. Miss cat has already let this topic go as a matter of leniency, but before it goes too far she requested that it be stopped.

Allow me to simplify:

1. This is a product forum about spiritual products made in the tradition of conjure

2. Traditional conjure is intricately tied to Southern Christian folk practices. To work with this system you'd need to accept this--hence getting right with Jesus and the Bible. This isn't a religious matter. You are welcome to believe what you want. But to work within the tradition you have to make peace with these two integral elements of the tradition.

3. Generalizations about religions, especially those that can be preceived as slanderous are not accepted here. This is true of all religions. This line of debate has already begun some generalization and may spiral out of control.

This is a Lucky Mojo forum made free for anyone interested in learning about how to use these products. Anyone interested in debate, theory, or other matters are welcome to use the PM system or take this to another forum. You may not like the policies, but this is Lucky Mojo's forum. Frankly, it doesn't matter whether you disagree, that isn't the issue. The issue is that this is Lucky Mojo's forum and discussions about religion, especially if they make generalizations or implications that can be seen as slanderous are not allowed.
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by catherineyronwode » Tue Mar 01, 2011 8:54 pm

ShadowInPurple,

Our mission here is to be of service and assistance to those who seek our help, not to engage in contention. So, yes, it is my practice to ban people who repeatedly attempt to misuse this forum as a venue for argument or debate. Three warnings will be issued, with explanations, before i issue a ban.
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by SweetLady » Wed Mar 02, 2011 10:23 am

Hello, I am very new to the forums. This is my very first post. I am mostly unfamiliar with hoodoo. I have practiced other forms of spirituality or magic for many years. I became interested in hoodoo because of a movie I saw...It's called The Skeleton Key.

I then read a book called Not in Kansas anymore. It mentioned the Lucky Mojo Curio Company and Miss Yronwode. I visited the site well over a year ago, but was scared off my the "threats" that hoodoo seems to carry.

For example, I just read a forum post about a "hit" on a child. The same post also mentioned "spiritual battles" that the individual had been in for a very long time. This all sounds scary and makes me wonder if it is dangerous to get into hoodoo.

1) Why would a person want to harm an innocent child?

2) What is meant by spiritual battles?

3) Why would someone practice hoodoo if it is known that others will try to hurt you or those you love?

4) If I practice hoodoo, could I be placing my beloved child in danger?

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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by ConjureMan Ali » Thu Mar 03, 2011 9:34 am

Hello SweetLady,

I am not sure what you mean by "threats" that hoodoo seems to carry. Never heard of such a thing and I've been a conjurer for quite some time and a professional rootworker for many years. Here are the answers to your numbered questions.

1. Asking why a person would harm an innocent child is an odd question. People can be mean and viscious. I guess your answer would be for the same reason some people kidnap children, rape children, or kill children--there is something wrong with that person (sociopath etc).

2. Some people use the term spiritual battles or spiritual warfare to refer to a conflict between two individuals in a non-physical manner. This is not a common occurrance, but it exists within all spiritual paths, be you witch, conjure doctor, Christian, Muslim etc. It involves anything from someone wishing you ill, to having someone pray against you, to having someone actively use magick against you. Why it happens? Well why do nations go to war? For a variety of reasons. Such conflicts are not inherent to any one tradition, but to people themselves.

3. I am not sure what on earth you mean. Why would practing hoodoo equate to people trying to hurt you? People go their entire lives without encountering "attacks" from someone else following a magical tradition. Practicing hoodoo doesn't predispose someone to harm any more than any other form of spiritual knowledge. Just like studying martial arts wouldn't suddenly make you predisposed to getting into fights or having people randomly mug you. Do some people get attacked magically? Sure, but people get mugged and assaulted in daily life too, by some very non-magical individuals. There isn't some correlation between hoodoo and violence.

4. Why would you? Refer to my previous responses.

SweetLady, you seem a very gentle, if somewhat timid individual. I am not sure how you came to associate hoodoo with suddenly being exposed to a criminal underground, but you are entirely mistaken. These assumptions indicate a naivete about the nature of people and spiritual traditions in general. If you are that scared of the connotations of practicing magic or conjure then maybe you'd be better off just observing. No harm in that :-)

Good luck!
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by Mama Micki » Thu Mar 03, 2011 11:15 am

Reading this forum may sometimes give the impression that hoodoo is just about revenge, crossing, etc., but that is far from true. There are a lot of spells for prosperity, luck, protection, cleansing, and health also. I would suggest those would be more to your liking, SweetLady.
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by [Ophelia] » Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:29 pm

Mama Micki wrote:As you may guess from my screenname, I am an amateur Egyptologist. The Egyptian word for magic or magician is "heka," which may be related to the word "hex" and the Greek goddess Hecate. Adding a "t" to Egyptian words makes them feminine, so I guess I could call myself a "hekat." One could also use the word "magi" or "wise (wo)man."

I have been reading a lot lately about the parallels between Egyptian religious literature and hymns and the stories and Psalms in the Bible. I am quickly reaching the conclusion that they are similiar enough that I can combine the ancient Egyptian faith and Christianity into a syncretic path which would fit in nicely with Hoodoo, which includes African and Christian elements.

Now I can say that I believe in Jesus Christ (which means Anointed Savior), Light of the World, the Bread of Life, the Good Shepherd because these are also titles of the Egyptian God Heru (Horus).
This is EXACTLY how I practice and make sense of the combination!!! :-D
Khemetic religion and Hoodoo go VERY well together I feel also.
Nice to know someone else shares my beliefs!
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by demiann84 » Mon Mar 14, 2011 3:17 pm

The genereal rule of thumb when practicing is what ever you send out comesw back times three-how does that work if you are working to make wht someone did wrong to you right? For instance, i want to do a break up spell for my ex and his wife (whom he married after he and i had a baby together and he cheated on me with her the whole time we were together. They werent married when we started dating) Would i be bargaining for trouble doing this spell?

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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by rhiannonwales » Mon Mar 14, 2011 4:05 pm

Don't quote me on this, but I do not believe that hoodoo in general subscribes to the threefold law. That is more of a neo pagan thing. Hoodoo is more of a taking responsibility for what comes from the work you do - good or bad.

If I am wrong, someone PLEASE feel free to correct me... I am but a babe in the woods when it comes to hoodoo, although its fascinated me for years.

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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by ConjureMan Ali » Mon Mar 14, 2011 7:03 pm

There is no such rule of thumb in hoodoo. Work is justified or it isn't but no karmic concept.
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by Devi Spring » Mon Mar 14, 2011 8:10 pm

Also, the Three-fold Law of Wicca and some NeoPagan paths that embraced it is also separate in its theory than Eastern Karma. They are not interchangeable concepts. And both are not part of hoodoo.

As ConjureMan Ali says, there is the notion of works needing to be justified (as in "justified in the eyes of God"), but that is very contextually based and between the practitioner and God.
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by luckyboi317 » Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:02 pm

Does Hoodoo have initiations like voodoo or witchcraft? And how would one go about being initiated into hoodoo?

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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by starsinthesky7 » Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:31 pm

No. Voodoo is a religion,and witchcraft is a different form of magic. Hoodoo is something that people have learned from the ancestors, other practitioners, and/or through formal courses such as the lucky mojo correspondence course. I think hoodoo is an on going learning process that even the most experienced should be constantly refining and learning new things. But most people have learned through the passing down of information from others, and there isn't anything formal that makes you suddenly able to practice hoodoo.


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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by catherineyronwode » Tue Mar 29, 2011 10:50 am

Witchcraft is a more or less generic term for various forms of folk magic; in some cultures there may be iniitiations, in others, there are not.

In Anglophone nations, Witchcraft is also used as a term to identify certain Pagan and Neo-Pagan religions, such as Wicca, British Traditional Witchcraft, and Ecclectic Witchcraft. These are religions, and they do include initiations.

Hoodoo is a form of African American and Southern folk magic that does not require initiations.

A while back a rather phony book came out that claimed that hoodoo required initiations, but it was more or less the author's fantasy. The author was a member of an initiatic Witchcraft tradition and basically imposed his religious initiation ideas on conjure in a most ridiculous manner.

This youtube video may give you a more authentic look at the religious implications of hoodoo having been founded and grounded in Protestant Christianity:

Mary Don't You Weep - Gospel Legends Volume 2 soloist Inez Andrews
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukYKKIvwjr0
recorded live at Eyevox Studios, Ridgeland, Mississippi, August 24- 25 2004.
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by missps2010 » Wed Apr 06, 2011 9:25 am

Ever since I was little, I was taught that good things happen to good people. They are tested often but the end results always favor them. With an exception of my teenage years of my life, I have made it a point to go the extra mile to be there for others, help others, live for others. And God knows this has been unconditional. I have no interest or value in materialistic things apart from whats required to survive.

I love, pray and believe in Lord Shiva. I talk to him every night before I go to sleep. I fast for him.

Although I'm a beginner, I also believe in hoodoo and its powers.

You guys on the forum, the readers and Ms. Cat and her team do a great job in helping others- God bless you all :)

But can these tests go for ever? I feel like I'm being tested for years now and unfortunately being forced to think what did i do to deserve it. Since 2009, my life couldnt get worst. No job, no money, increasing debts, bf broke off the marriage- doesnt want to talk, tried moving on but the new guy rejected me as well and to top it all, I lost my car in an auto accident. I am siting in a dark room during the day typing my heart out wondering why is Lord Shiva angry at me? My eyes are dried out now- no more tears left.

Thanks to your suggestions on this forum and through readings by AIRR readers such as Ms. Cat and Miss Bri who may I add are very patient and lovely poeple, I have been hopeful at times about times to come. With spell work done through her or by myself based on what you all suggest, I look forward to changing times but my luck just wont change. My readings in the last few yrs never depicted anyting super negative so I guess I am just born with it. But these times are harsh and I'm losing faith in myself, my life and my God- its like the candle flame- flickering and unpredictable- almost ready to burn out.

My family and my friends are the only anchor saving my ship from drowning. I keep asking them if I'm doin something wrong, if I dont come across as a nce person, if I can change myself in any way, I even apologized to this one guy who apparently liked me but since I didnt, I may have hurt his feelings hoping that might change things.. What else can I do?? Is there any help for my situation??

Please let me know. I'd SINCERELY appreciate your advices and help :)
Thank you all for your time.

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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by Jibrael » Wed Apr 06, 2011 10:07 am

I'm only beginning my formal journey into Hoodoo, so I can't address that, but I do have some experience with Shiva, and that I would like to share.

Shiva is said by some to be the God of destruction, who consumes what is dead at the end of time so that the new world may be born. If things are as bad as you say, then it doesn't mean He's angry with you; in fact, if its anything like how He relates to me, then its a good thing. What is falling away and dying in your life is the fodder and fertilizer for the resurrection to come. Its like the Death Card in the Tarot; its not the end of the Major Arcana, but a defining moment where the old passes away and the new appears.

Why is Shiva so often depicted setting in a cremation ground, or on a remote mountain? A Hindu swami once told me that the blue of Shiva's skin is from the ashes of all the dead bodies He's watched be cremated, and it is the dust of all the worlds He's watched die. But He is still, and listening. Death is part of life, and all things end. But part of that ending is the new beginning. Does that make sense? Your God is one of most powerful catalysts for change that we humans have ever encountered! Shiva, in my experience, is not a rosy and bump-free-ride kinda God. No... He takes you through the conflagaration and teaches you how to dance in the midst of it.

Don't give up, darling. Your God has not abandoned you, nor is He upset with you. The place you are in is the place that is His specialty.
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by Mama Micki » Wed Apr 06, 2011 10:17 am

I do not know your religious or cultural background, but are you sure that Shiva is the God for you? He is an ascetic God, going through many trials to achieve enlightenment. As Jibrael stated, he is also the God of death and destruction.

Only you can decide your spiritual path; you are free to choose.
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by missps2010 » Wed Apr 06, 2011 10:32 am

beautiful words hun!!! thanks for the words of encoragement but it does amaze me that this has been goin on for a while now. my heart aches in ways hard to decribe but hey all i can really do is be hopeful right and pass the tests and come out with flying colors..
heres to the new beginning awaiting me I hope......

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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by missps2010 » Wed Apr 06, 2011 10:41 am

thanks Mama Micki. youre right.

I'm a HIndu and Lord Shiva is one of our Gods. I truely believe in him, I just wish he'd be less strict on me now after all this time :)

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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by Devi Spring » Wed Apr 06, 2011 12:27 pm

There are also many manifestations of Shiva. If you feel you are tapping into the harsher aspects of him, then you could always try calling on one of his peaceful names instead and see how that changes the energy in your life. Shiva Shambo and Shiva Shankara are two such examples.
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by ConjureMan Ali » Wed Apr 06, 2011 2:42 pm

Mama Micki is definitely on something. If you follow the path of Shiva expect a path of asceticism in some way shape or form. Such is his path through enlightenment, where the ego is shattered.

If you are Hindu you may consider a different path to Lord Shiva.
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by missps2010 » Wed Apr 06, 2011 2:44 pm

Devi Spring wrote:There are also many manifestations of Shiva. If you feel you are tapping into the harsher aspects of him, then you could always try calling on one of his peaceful names instead and see how that changes the energy in your life. Shiva Shambo and Shiva Shankara are two such examples.
your are right Devi! I call him Prabhu (Lord) :) well I guess I will let him test me as much as he wants. Eventually he will have to be pleased with me. I just hope I have the strenght to keep taking it.

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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by HeactesHeart » Fri Apr 08, 2011 10:31 am

Hello.

I recently met a very spiritual man who I seem a very deep connection with. We have spent many hours talk and he shared some of his magical knowledge with me. I feel very attracted to him. Last night we spent hours together, standing inches apart, in deep conversation . He keep asking what is that was blocking me from real happiness. I began to cry and so did he. He gently cradled my face in his hands, then wiped my tears with his fingers and swallowed then all. He smiled and said "now they are mine".

Afterward he told that we had many past lives together. I asked him what was the nature of the relationship and he told me we were lovers. Ah.

I feel very safe with him.

Yet, I wonder if he was hoodooing my tears.


Peace,

Coco

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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by catherineyronwode » Fri Apr 08, 2011 10:42 am

Ingestion of a lover's tears is not a hoodoo tradition, but it is a very common seduction / binding method used in the sex magic, sacred sex, sex yoga, and pick-up artist communities.

For more on sex magic and sacred sex, see

http://luckymojo.com/sacredsex.html

His reference to "past lives" is pretty far off the map for hoodoo, since hoodoo is basically the folk magic of Protestant Christian African Americans, most of whom believe in an after-death experience of Heaven, which features events such as meeting Jesus, seeing (or being) an Angel, etc. -- not rebirth into another body on Earth.

The fact that he mentioned "past lives" might indicate that he has absorbed some Asian religious ideas, either directly, from a traditional Asian religion such as Hinduism or Buddhism, or indirectly, via Theosophy, New Age beliefs, or Neuro-Linguistic Programing techniques. Hard to tell.

I'm merging this into the "Religion" thread because although it may be of interest to many, it is off-topic for a discussion of conjure and the employment of Lucky Mojo Spiritual Supplies.
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by Conjure_Mama » Sat Apr 16, 2011 7:30 pm

Does anyone here work with deificr pantheons?

I have worked with the Greek pantheon for about 7 years now. I have seen where some of the gods and goddess that I am comfortable working with could very easily fit into hoodoo workings.

This is definately turning out to be a year that I am forced to "face" many of my fears and issues. My husband beleives that my ever deeper study of hoodoo and daily exposure to working with saints is part of this "life lesson" I am working through this year.

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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by catherineyronwode » Sat Apr 16, 2011 8:39 pm

Most people here are practitioners of African American conjure, and most are Protestants.

We welcome people from all religions. You will find many ecelectics, as well as an assortment of dedicants to Hindu deities, Buddhist incarnations, kimpungulu, orishas, lwa, saints, angels, and ancestral spirits,

This post goes in the big "Religion -- It's YOUR Problem, Not Ours" thread.

Any time you want to discuss African American conjure, feel free to check out the threads on our topic here.

You might wnt to watch this youtube video, as it may give you some history of how religion intertwines with African American culture:

Preview History of First African Baptist Church Savannah GA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJtTGJl8VB4
Preview of upcoming documentary of the history of First African Baptist Church in Savannah Georgia

Good luck.
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by ConjureMan Ali » Sat Apr 16, 2011 11:37 pm

Hoodoo is very firmly intertwined with African American Protestant Christian beliefs. You don't have to be a Christian to practice, but its best to get comfortable with Christianity before you dive in. If you can't, this path may not be for you.
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by maduro01 » Sun May 01, 2011 3:54 pm

Does Chango Macho despise gay, bi-sexual or transgender people?
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by JCPA72 » Sun May 01, 2011 5:40 pm

Maduro

No, for some unknown reason - that idea has taken hold. In the Yorba tradition, Chango is considered to be a very sexual, manly warrior God - hence the Macho - he likes to drink, rum.. smoke cigars and all that good stuff. I actually know two men, who are as Macho as can be - who are son's of Chango and they are gay..
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by maduro01 » Sun May 01, 2011 6:44 pm

JCPA72 wrote:Maduro

No, for some unknown reason - that idea has taken hold. In the Yorba tradition, Chango is considered to be a very sexual, manly warrior God - hence the Macho - he likes to drink, rum.. smoke cigars and all that good stuff. I actually know two men, who are as Macho as can be - who are son's of Chango and they are gay..

THANK YOU JCPA!!!!

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Best :D
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by ConjureMan Ali » Sun May 01, 2011 10:25 pm

Most houses of Lukumi/Santeria do not have prohibitions against homosexuality. You only find that taboo in the ramas of Palo.
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by atricus » Sun Jun 05, 2011 1:10 pm

Is there an oil from LM that can be used to anoint candles for Saint Elijah / Elias?

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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by Devi Spring » Sun Jun 05, 2011 1:56 pm

All Saints Oil, or Holy Oil would work very well for that.
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by ConjureMan Ali » Sun Jun 05, 2011 6:06 pm

If you mean the figure in the Hebrew Bible, then Elijah is not a saint, he's a prophet and Jewish holy figure. For such a figure you'd want 711 Holy Oil or Abramelin Oil.

Moses Oil would work as well since Moses and Elijah are connected to one another in Jewish mystical circles.
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by Apo » Tue Jun 07, 2011 7:54 am

In Catholic tradition Elijah is considered a saint; anyone who resides in heaven is a saint.

In non Haitian Vodou traditions. Saint Elijah of Mount Carmel or San Elias del Monte Carmelo is prayed to defeat enemies and also called on as the syncretic image for the Baron of the Cementary or Santo Barón del Cementerio

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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by catherineyronwode » Tue Jun 07, 2011 9:18 am

A lot of Jews, myself included, find it extremely offensive that Catholics can presume that OUR holy men and prophets are in THEIR Heaven.

MY ANCESTORS ARE NOT CATHOLIC SAINTS.

For the past two thousand years Catholic popes and clerics have doomed millions of my actual ancestors to torture and death in the name of their religion and to this very day they have the insufferable gall to tell me that not only am i doomed to their Catholic Hell (we Jews don't have a Hell) but that my actual DNA ancestors (whose descendants they have killed!) are in their heaven. My Jewish ancestors do not take kindly to their DNA descendants being killed by Catholics!

Elijah is not anyone's Voodoo "syncretic image for the Baron of the Cementary or Santo Barón del Cementerio", either.

Elijah raised the dead long before Jesus did. Elijah ascended to the sky long before Jesus did. Elijah is not some retrofit pseudo-Catholic saint -- he is the great prophet who lived 900 years before Jesus was born -- nine hundred years before Christianity! -- and he was a Jew. As was Jesus. Period.

We honour Elijah, the defender of our Jewish faith against the faiths of all others, at every Sabbath and at every Passover Seder in the Jewish religion. We leave the door open that Elijah may enter if he should come again. We leave a cushion or seat for Elijah to sit upon, if he should come again. We place out a cup of wine for Elijah that he might drink if he should come again. We do these things because Elijah is OUR prophet, and OUR great holy man and not the play-toy of any other religion.

Free Elijah from the Catholic Church!

Free Elijah from the Voodooists!

Power to the Prophets!
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by ConjureMan Ali » Tue Jun 07, 2011 11:21 am

Apo, I am aware of the syncretism with Elijah. Yet, I stand by my advice. All Saints oil would not be appropriate for him. He is a Jewish figure and oils like 711 oil and Abramelin oil and Moses oil are more appropriate for him.

The recipe of both oils contian elements recognizable to the great Prophet Elijah and would be pleasing to him.
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by atricus » Tue Jun 07, 2011 1:51 pm

Thanks for the recommendations I have 7-11 Holy oil so ill use that for now.

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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by nagasiva » Tue Jun 07, 2011 6:23 pm

amongst rootworkers there is often an emphasis on one's individual relationship with the divine and a humble assessment of one's fellows. these predispose the cautious to regard the appropriation of the heroes of other religions as an overextension and incursion, and therefore as disrespectful of them.

at the same time, interest in derivation makes a focus on religious predecessors understandable. there is no denying that Jewish and Christian religious have a long and, at times, turbulent relationship. scholars disagree about precisely where one stops and the other begins, but the differences of character and social identity between Jews and Christians are generally clear. one of the more important points raised here is the extreme differential of power and influence exercised by Christian hierarchs upon Jews, despite the Christian derivation of authority from Jewish cults.

all of this considered, it is important both to respect the original culture of all religious figures and to understand properly how it may be that they are seen by conjures. for the purpose of this forum, Jewish religious figures ought to be held in high regard, not assimilated to a Roman Catholic paradigm, and understood, if possible, as portrayed in their original cultural context. as the Chosen People of the Abrahamic God, Jews are believed by Protestants to have a reserved or special role in the unfolding cosmic drama, and from a position of humility and respect, we ought to refer to them as they continue to refer to themselves (prophets, rabbis, holy men and women, dear ones to God, etc.).
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by atricus » Tue Jun 07, 2011 6:54 pm

Sorry if i caused any trouble i was just wondering what other people did to honor this religious figure since i didn’t see him discussed in any other post.

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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by catherineyronwode » Tue Jun 07, 2011 8:10 pm

Atricus, no trouble at all and no apology necessary, 'cause that's why this thread exists -- to hold all the trash talk about religions so that religious controversies don't spoil the other threads in the forum! :-)
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by ConjureMan Ali » Tue Jun 07, 2011 8:44 pm

Couldn't agree more, nagasiva. My old teacher used to call on the Spirit of Solomon, but he wasn't a saint in her eyes. He was a powerful Jewish King, Sage, and Conjurer.

The only thing I'd like to add is that the complex relationship between Judaism and Christianity is extended to Islam as well who can be seen as another branch in the turbulent Abrahamic tree.
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by gremlin » Mon Jun 13, 2011 2:03 pm

Hi

I was not sure exactly where this segment might fit, so forgive me if this is out of place.

A few days ago someone told me about how the bible states that magic is bad in any form. It got me into a deep thought that lasted into the next day:

We are suppose to be a Microcosm of the Macrocosm (God/Allah/supreme being) this is not just stated by the practitioners of the occult but the Bible specifically states that we are created in his image. That being said wouldn’t that imply also that using forces to better your life be also a part of that?

Even mystics state that we all have a natural ability to connect to the spirit world and the veil between physical and spirit of the physical plane is an illusion. Now down to the main question the Bible does say thou shalt not suffer a witch to live and other such verses. But being open for personal interpretation I feel that it means 2 things. One is that a person who they call a witch seems to be one who derives magic and such power from the actual Devil (if you believe in it). Or someone who uses trickery to take money and inadvertently draw people away from spiritual ascendance and only to rely on seers and mediums instead of what exists higher than earthly diviners. I myself look at the Bibles damnation of magic and occult practices as this: a child and a sharp knife. Not a good combination, but does this mean the knife itself is bad or leads to eternal damnation?! No

A child does not understand that a knife is dangerous or what it is capable of doing, until it actually fools around with it. We try to prevent this by forbidding the child to play with the knife until it is mature enough to use it. We tell them it’s bad and it draws bad things to it; we practically make it seem evil. Now Hoodoo and any magic, mystic or occult practice in general is powerful stuff. You manipulate nature or induce it to work in other ways than it normally would work.

I feel that at the time the Bible was written it was assuming that most people wouldn’t understand magic workings or know how to use it "responsibly". That by using it would lead to temptation into sin and falling in league with the devil in order to acquire more power, falling away from god by way of thinking oneself as all powerful, or even mere deception done to others.

Also I knew a Catholic priest who was a good friend of the fam's and came to the conclusion that the only reason it is forbidden is because tampering with forces and nature can allow the devil to get its foot in the door so to speak. Not so much that it was strictly a dark sin. Since we are on the topic; Take for example Catholics they pray to saints and such to seek help and guidance in certain matters. Some even use rosaries and other holy items much like a talisman or amulet. Now Catholics don’t literally worship the saints but rather treat them as mediators between the physical realm and the spiritual realm. Well I know other religions that would fit that description to a degree. That is Vodou, Santeria, and Macumba. I am not to savvy on Santeria and Macumba but I do know they are similar to Voodoo and that I know about. In Vodou as many of you may know they believe in one god (Bohn-dyay) and Many spirits or Lwas. While they do hold rituals to honor the Lwas and ask for favors and the like they do NOT actually worship them in the sense one would for a god. Not too far off from Catholicism for the most part.

They feel that the best way to feel divine presence and seek spiritual help is to work directly with the spirit world. Now I often put myself in a more Christian set of shoes sometimes and ask myself if I am not doing anything to hurt or sin against god what’s the difference of asking a boss for a raise in the physical world or seeking the raise in the spiritual realm? Surly you are not worshiping your boss by asking, just because we as practitioners of an "invisible" work ask or use things less tangible for help does not damn us to hell.
What do you think?

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ConjureMan Ali
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by ConjureMan Ali » Mon Jun 13, 2011 6:48 pm

Gremlin --

The injunction against witches is actually taken out of context by most people today. I must point out that the taboos against witches are common all over the Near East as well as Africa. That's right, Africa with all its medicine men and priests, also has an injunction against witches. In these cultures a "witch" is someone who is nearly inhuman and malefic in nature. These people live on the outskits of civilization and wreak terrible damage to people who live in towns, cities, and villages. They are attributed to ruining crops, killing cattle, causing infant mortality, and other woes.

In the Mediterranean world such individuals specifically cultivate the power of the Evil Eye--as opposed to the poor individual who inadvertently has it--so they can cast their evil with a look. In various parts of Africa a specific gland is believed to contribute to witchcraft.

The point is that magic in of itself is not taboo. Quite the opposite, you'll find men of religion partaking in magical practices--the Bible itself details a magical spell performed by priests of YHWH to determine whether a woman has been false. Instead what the injunction refers to are sanctioned and unsanctioned magical practices. Sanctioned being those practiced by spiritual workers (priests and holy men) for the betterment of the commnunity while unsanctioned practices being practiced by the witch for the destruction of the community.

It is only in more recent times that there has been an attempt to re-define "witch" into a sort of cunning woman or wise woman.
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by Miss Bri » Tue Jun 14, 2011 5:38 am

Ali has said many things very well in his response--he is backed up by current events--google "witch persecution in Africa" and you will see what I mean.

I will add a couple--the Bible has been translated a number of times. What Protestants call the "Old Testament" and what for Jews is the Tanakh is written primarily in Hebrew and Aramaic. The New Testament is written in Greek. I have actually had the privilege of translating parts of the New Testament and I can tell you -- it is no easy feat. Translation is very difficult to start with, then layer on all of the political agendas of the translators -- did you know that King James was terrified of witches and actually believed that a witch almost caused his ship to sink at sea when he was on his way back home from waging war? Is it a surprise that we find "thou shalt not suffer a witch to live" in the beautiful translation of the Bible commissioned by him?

If you look at the Bible you will find instances of divination, necromancy, mediumship, laying on of hands, petition writing, cleansing or destroying with a proxy, sacred geometry, words manifesting reality -- and the list goes on and on and on- - not to mention resurrection from the dead. Just some food for thought.

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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by Mama Micki » Tue Jun 14, 2011 8:00 am

I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions, and also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those will I pour out my spirit. Joel 2:28,29 and Acts 2:17,18

I believe that this passage (found in both the Old and New Testaments) confirms that psychic ability is a God-given gift.
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by CoffeeMom » Thu Jun 16, 2011 2:00 pm

A close relative of mine, who is a preteen with a younger sibling, informed me that she saw her stepmom doing some kind of spell. I know, I know... While a little bit of a drama queen at times, the girl is not an outright liar. I wanted help recognizing it (I'm just guessing Hoodoo based on the woman's demographic category).

According to the little girl - SM took a live bird, killed it (I'm not clear on how) and spilled its blood on someone's photograph. Herbs and some words that the girl couldn't recognize were involved. The picture may or may not have been burned.

Given that she killed a poor defenseless bird and given that she's assaulted the kids' mom before, I'm guessing this was black magic.

Any ideas on what this spell is, what it does, what tradition? Tips on protecting these innocent kids against this nutcase, should she decide to do work against them? Their mom, when I talked to her about my concerns, expressed faith that God would protect her kids and a preference that we not "mess with" rootwork, since she was concerned it could backfire since we don't know any professionals.

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