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Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

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CoffeeMom
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by CoffeeMom » Thu Jun 16, 2011 2:00 pm

A close relative of mine, who is a preteen with a younger sibling, informed me that she saw her stepmom doing some kind of spell. I know, I know... While a little bit of a drama queen at times, the girl is not an outright liar. I wanted help recognizing it (I'm just guessing Hoodoo based on the woman's demographic category).

According to the little girl - SM took a live bird, killed it (I'm not clear on how) and spilled its blood on someone's photograph. Herbs and some words that the girl couldn't recognize were involved. The picture may or may not have been burned.

Given that she killed a poor defenseless bird and given that she's assaulted the kids' mom before, I'm guessing this was black magic.

Any ideas on what this spell is, what it does, what tradition? Tips on protecting these innocent kids against this nutcase, should she decide to do work against them? Their mom, when I talked to her about my concerns, expressed faith that God would protect her kids and a preference that we not "mess with" rootwork, since she was concerned it could backfire since we don't know any professionals.

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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by ConjureMan Ali » Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:57 pm

Animal sacrifice is no longer a common-place occurance in conjure and rootwork. While most of the Afro-Diasporic traditions have some blood sacrifices in them, hoodoo lacks the religious foundation of the other Afro-Diasporic traditions that require them. Similarly, when you are a slave, slaughtering animals in "primitive" rites is the quickest way to get yourself in trouble--hence conjures "sneaky tricks" traditions.

That said, there are still some conjures that involve killing of animals--these are often found in areas where conjure that still holds strong ties to more African elements (I learned a few of these works from Gullah doctors) or those areas where European influences were heavily adopted (here we find toad bone rites and black cat bones). The only thing that sounds off, is that conjure doesn't have set formulaic spoken "spells."

In your case you'll need a reading. Killing an animal does not always equal black magic. The Black Cat Bone is a cruel working, but one that is ultimately aimed at either invisibility or the return of a lover--not necessarily crossing or revenge type work. Similarly, I know of another working that involves the killing of a small bird for love work, and another that calls for using a bird's heart for love work.

If this person has animosity towards her husband's ex, then it is very possible, but confirm with a reading. What I can tell you is that if she is working with conjure then she's learned some old school primal stuff that few of us actually still know.

In my opinion you'd want to talk to someone familiar with these types of rites, off the top of my head Dr. K, Miss cat, and myself are all familiar with these types of working, there may be a couple more.

Until then, wash the children Uncrossing Bath Crystals mixed with 13 herb bath, get them little Saint Michael medallions dressed with Fiery Wall of Protection and dissolve some Jinx Killer Bath Crystals in warm water and spray around their home, or got through with Chinese Floor Wash.
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by CoffeeMom » Thu Jun 16, 2011 4:55 pm

Thanks Ali - i am not 100% convinced its hoodoo, but im trying to figure out whether its a Satanic ritual or something. IDK if it was really a spoken spell, just that words were said. Im actually concerned it might be devil worship, which id want these kids protected from/kept away from that.

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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by catherineyronwode » Thu Jun 16, 2011 6:22 pm

Dear CoffeeMom,

Doesn't sound like hoodoo to me. It may be an African diasporic spell. It does not sound "Satanic."

Good luck -- and come back any time you want customer service from our shop. :-)
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by msdriethewitch » Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:03 pm

Hello there! This actually sounds like some old ceremonial magic conjurations and/or invocation rituals Ive read in the books of Solomon and the grimoire of St Cyprian. Everything Ive ever read about the use of animal blood either concerns demon/djinn conjuration and invocation OR spying. There is an old pagan belief that the spirit of the animal lives within the blood so the blood of different birds are used for "spying" rituals.

I guess what threw me off with the ceremonial magic theory was the use of herbs. Now, animal blood has been known to Voodoo practioners. But there are also other beliefs that are quite similar to Voodoo, but not nearly as "popular" such as Macumba in Brazil and Pukkumina in Jamaica; both are big on spirit possession and animal blood letting. There are several practices in the Caribbean and West Africa that could fall into this category.

Its difficult to say if she is or is not a demon worshipper. I dont think you have enough details to really narrow it down to a particular magic form. Especially because many rootworkers end up creating their rituals alot of the time. I mean did the language sound Latin or similar to a Bantu or Swahili language? Taken into consideration her past offenses it may be a negative thing. Or it may have been a simple sacrifice. Normally hexes or black spells focused towards someone would require blood/hair or other personal things from that person, and not animal blood. And since she's in the house with the children it probably wouldnt be hard to obtain.

This is a really disturbing thing concerning the kids though. I wish you knew a little more about what she did and we could narrow it down. I feel like this is going to be on my brain all night :P
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by ConjureMan Ali » Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:47 pm

Blood sacrifice does not equal demon-worship or Satanism and we should be careful not to equate them with African Traditional Religions.

Also, the term "Macumba" is a pejorative name for an ATR and may be highly offensive to those of that tradition and no, it doesn't match any workings there, nor is it similar to Vodou.

Similarly, blood sacrifice for a djinn is highly uncommon.

As state above, there is no point in guessing. Get a reading.
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by LPS_conjure » Sun Jun 19, 2011 10:01 pm

Hi everybody,

I have recently started reading and learning about hoodoo. I like it very much and soon I'd like to start working with the spells, oils etc.

[Twelve sentences deleted for violating Terms of Service. --cat]

So question is : can a person practice the 'witchcraft' part of hoodoo without the religious side of it? And without belonging to any particular religion?

I'm interested in using it for practical matters not spirituality.

I'm just trying to understand, I don't want to start a religious debate.

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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by catherineyronwode » Sun Jun 19, 2011 11:26 pm

Dear LPS_conjure --

Your post is being placed in the one thread where religion is discussed.

My opinion is that hoodoo is not ever going to be a good fit for you because in the portion of your post that i deleted it seemed clear that you don't respect the culture from which is arises. If you are not here to start a religious debate, then please don't try to argue theology.
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by Conjuremoon » Tue Jun 21, 2011 3:57 pm

Just reading through this forum and I have to agree with what was said above that ones personal relationship with the Divine, is important. I also believe Faith is an important part to any type of work.

My great grand mother was a Pennsylvania Dutch Healer, many refer to them as Braucheri, or pow wowers, however you spell it. But she would never refer to her in any type of context of sort. I have spent the last few years compiling the prayer books, healings, herbs & list of remedies, as the tradition is dying slowly.

What upsets me and I also see happen in Hoodoo, is when people try to add things that aren't traditional and call it traditional. I respect and have studied a vast number of spiritual paths. And I respect them all. Recently I read a book unnamed , which talked about powwowwing and the person who wrote it changed all the prayers to Mother Goddess & I believe even Isis prayers. Now, I respect and have friends of paths of the Goddess, but this just wasn't in pow wowing. The author stated she did it, so it would appeal to non-christians as well. That is fine, I have many books on the Mother Aspect of God, which I do believe exists. But it simply isn't pow wowing. It wasn't a part of that culture.

Sorry to rave on, but as Cat said, this is here so it doesn't spill into other forums.

If you don't respect the culture, or the background it came from, then don't write about it. You can;t just change the tradition to what you want. How can you ever practice a tradition you don't have respect or knowledge for?

You can practice it as something else...but it simply isn't it.

That being said, I do feel it is a personal practice, and you should pray your words, and practice from the Heart. That is the greatness of this work. The ability to make it yours. My family had no money, and my grandmother would have us stand beneath the full moon, upon up our wallets and say, money come in money come in , money come in. And it always did. But have a knowledge & respect of the culture from which you are practicing.

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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by LPS_conjure » Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:37 pm

catherineyronwode wrote:Your post is being placed in the one thread where religion is discussed.

My opinion is that hoodoo is not ever going to be a good fit for you because in the portion of your post that i deleted it seemed clear that you don't respect the culture from which is arises. If you are not here to start a religious debate, then please don't try to argue theology.
I really want to apologize for my "un-fortunate" post.

I didn't know it is forbidden to discuss about religion ( now I do ).

Sorry if my post sounded rude or offensive. I just wanted to learn more but I did it in the wrong way.

My apologizes again especially to the owner of this place.

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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by Joseph Magnuson » Wed Jun 22, 2011 6:37 am

The "owner of this place" is the very woman who edited and commented on your post, Catherine Yronwode!

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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by Mama Micki » Wed Jun 22, 2011 3:24 pm

Discussing religion is not forbidden. Making disparaging comments about particular religions is against forum rules.
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by tokumbo78 » Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:28 am

Is it impractical to combine vodou lwa invocation, rituals, and practices with hoodoo and rootwork? If it is impractical, OK. If it's not, then how do you go about doing it?

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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by Brother_Silence » Mon Jun 27, 2011 1:36 pm

tokumbo78,

My approach to this issue is that Vodoun is a religion and should be practiced as such. If you are an adherent of Vodoun, then practice your Hoodoo as such. If you are not, then why use Vodoun rituals?

Hoodoo has A LOT to offer. There certainly are not any hard and fast rules... but a conjuror knows what he can do.

It is better, in my experience, to master a simple, strong ritual or spell than to dabble with exotic permutations.

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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by catherineyronwode » Mon Jun 27, 2011 10:48 pm

The question: "Is it impractical to combine vodou lwa invocation, rituals, and practices with hoodoo and rootwork? If it is impractical, OK. If it's not, then how do you go about doing it?"

I suppose it can be done -- but why would you want to?

I mean, would you equally want to combine the rituals and practices of Hindu shakti puja with hoodoo, or the rituals and practices of Buddhist group meditation with hoodoo, or the rituals and practices of Native American peyote ceremonies with hoodoo, or the rituals and practices of Eclectic Witchcraft orgiastic goddess worship with hoodoo, or the rituals and practices of Jewish infant circumcision with hoodoo?

If so, why? If not, why not?

Let's put it another way:

If you were asking my permission to serve me Veal Parmesan on the same plate with Pineapple Cashew Shrimp, here's what i would say: "No thanks."

Not because i don't like either dish on its own, just because i would find the appearance and taste of the combination unappetizing.

Of course other folks would scarf the combo down without a second thought. But then, some people would pour Cioppino over Linzer Torte :-)

Cioppino:

Ingredients

3/4 cup butter
2 onions, chopped
2 cloves garlic, minced
1 bunch fresh parsley, chopped
2 (14.5 ounce) cans stewed tomatoes
2 (14.5 ounce) cans chicken broth
2 bay leaves
1 tablespoon dried basil
1/2 teaspoon dried thyme
1/2 teaspoon dried oregano
1 cup water
1 1/2 cups white wine
1 1/2 pounds large shrimp - peeled and deveined
1 1/2 pounds bay scallops
18 small clams
18 mussels, cleaned and debearded
1 1/2 cups crabmeat
1 1/2 pounds cod fillets, cubed

Image

Directions

Over medium-low heat melt butter in a large stockpot, add onions, garlic and parsley. Cook slowly, stirring occasionally until onions are soft.
Add tomatoes to the pot (break them into chunks as you add them). Add chicken broth, bay leaves, basil, thyme, oregano, water and wine. Mix well. Cover and simmer 30 minutes.
Stir in the shrimp, scallops, clams, mussels and crab meat. Stir in fish, if desired. Bring to boil. Lower heat, cover and simmer 5 to 7 minutes until clams open. Ladle soup into bowls and serve with warm, crusty bread!

No! No! Not "warm, crusty bread"! Linzer Torte!

Linzer Torte

Ingredients

1 2/3 cups sliced almonds with skins (6 oz)
1/3 cup sugar
1 stick (1/2 cup) unsalted butter, softened
1 large egg yolk
1/2 cup all-purpose flour
1 teaspoon finely grated fresh lemon zest
1/4 teaspoon salt
1/8 teaspoon cinnamon
1/8 teaspoon ground cloves
3/4 cup red-currant jam (8 oz)

Special equipment: a 9-inch (24-cm) round springform pan

Image

Directions

Grind almonds with half of sugar in a food processor until powdery (be careful not to process to a paste), then transfer to a small bowl.

Add butter, yolk, and remaining sugar to processor and blend, scraping down sides, until light and fluffy. Add ground almonds, flour, zest, salt, cinnamon, and cloves and pulse, scraping down sides if necessary, until a dough forms. (Dough will be sticky.)

Divide dough into 1 one-third portion and 1 two-thirds portion and form each portion into a disk on plastic wrap. Wrap disks in plastic wrap and chill until slightly firm, about 30 minutes.

Put oven rack in middle position and preheat oven to 350°F.

Unwrap larger disk and put in springform pan. Cover surface with plastic wrap and press dough (through plastic wrap) evenly onto bottom and 1/4 inch up side of pan. Discard plastic wrap.

Bake until golden brown, 20 to 25 minutes, then transfer crust in pan to a rack and cool completely, about 30 minutes. Leave oven on.

Roll out remaining dough between 2 sheets of plastic wrap into a 9-inch round, then transfer to a baking sheet and freeze 10 minutes. (Round will be thinner than bottom crust.)

Remove top sheet of plastic and cut dough into 12 (1/2-inch-wide) strips, then freeze strips 5 minutes. Discard any remaining dough.

Spread jam evenly over cooled crust, leaving a 1/4-inch border around edge, then arrange 6 strips 1 inch apart across jam, pressing ends onto edge of crust. Arrange remaining 6 strips 1 inch apart diagonally across first strips to form a lattice with diamond-shaped spaces. (Repair any broken pieces of dough by carefully pressing them together.) Trim edges of all strips flush with edge of pan.

Bake until top is golden brown, 30 to 40 minutes. Cool in pan on rack 10 minutes, then remove side of pan and cool completely.

And smother with HOT CIOPPINO!

(Just sayin' is all.)
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by Carin Huber » Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:28 pm

I started to reply that I have no problem combining my neo-pagan practice with hoodoo, but then I realized that I don't do that at all. Yes, I am pagan, and yes, I practice hoodoo, but the two things rarely intersect. I have never called on Cernunnos to bless a mojo (an herbal "amulet" wrapped in cloth, yes, but that was in the European tradition, and was not, as such, a mojo), nor "grounded" after lighting a vigil candle. I've even been known to work with Catholic saints, to good result!

On the other side of it, I've never sprinkled sachet powders on my sabbat altar, nor washed my ritual tools with Chinese Wash. A squeeze of lemon juice in some blessed (by me) water does just fine. :)

I don't think it would be wrong to do any of these things, but it just doesn't feel right, either. I think probably the closest I come to "combining" the two is my tendency to turn objects clockwise for increasing work and counter-clockwise for diminishing work, and my habit of empowering objects via visualization, rather than worded prayer.

An interesting thing to note, and not something that I would have been likely to consider, left to my own devices.

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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by Jamie » Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:39 am

People are so quick to forget that one is a Magical practice and one is a religion and the two are not necessarily interchangeable; not every Jew is a Kabbalist, not every Muslim is a Djinn Doctor.

In regards to Voodoo and Hoodoo, people don't realize the two are completely separate as practices. Vodou's magical system is Wanga not Hoodoo and the they are totally different from one another.

Brilliant post Miss Cat

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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by tokumbo78 » Thu Jun 30, 2011 9:26 am

Thank you very much to the people who replied to my question about combining voodoo/vodou with hoodoo/rootwork.

Yes, I do know that vodou is a religion that includes magical practices. The reason i asked if they could be combined is because upon Internet reading (which I know is not the most reliable source) there were many elements that seemed similar but definitely different.

My thoughts about combining them were simply to create a very POWERFUL solution to magic done against me (in essence, throwing everything including the kitchen sink at it, so to speak). You see, I know the work was done, but I'm not 100% sure if it was vodou or hoodoo that was used, but I am 100% sure that it was either of the two or both, as I know some people do practice both.

So, having said that, if anyone responds to this update, I'd also like to ask another question:

Can hoodoo OVERPOWER work done with other magical systems?

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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by Mama Micki » Fri Jul 01, 2011 9:38 am

Yes, tokumbo78, Hoodoo can reverse work by those who practice other forms of magic.
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by Rain42day » Wed Aug 10, 2011 4:38 pm

Hello I am a practicing Buddhist and Santerian, but ive gone to several spiritualists and they tell me that by practicing these two religions together, that im crossing my self.

Is there a way to practice these two without crossing myself?

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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by Mama Micki » Wed Aug 10, 2011 6:09 pm

Rain42day: These two religions don't seem to have a lot in common, but if they work for you, practice whatever faith or combination of faiths that gives you comfort.

You could set up two separate altars with Buddha on one and saints on the other.
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by starsinthesky7 » Wed Aug 10, 2011 8:41 pm

Unfortunately, Rain42day, your question does not have anything to do with Hoodoo and lucky mojo products.

I would perhaps speak with an AIRR individual from http://www.readersandrootworkers.org to answer your questions.
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by stelz » Fri Aug 26, 2011 7:00 pm

The more I read, the less I know.

My understanding of Kardecism is that it's a mix of Umbanda, and French occultism...so you get things like the Lenormand deck with different cards assigned to diffent Orishas/Exu spirits.

Any clarification is welcome. Thanks.

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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by pixiemushroom » Fri Sep 02, 2011 7:59 am

Hello,

I am a new member of the forum :) I have done a search before posting this question but could not find any answers . Please excuse me if there was an answer already and I missed it.

I am a white woman from the UK who is extremely drawn to Hoodoo but don't like or want anything to do with the Christian side of things.

I am not Christian, and I don't believe in a personal "God". If I were asked what I believed in, I would say that I believe there is some unknown energy force that permeates and underpins the entire universe - a sort of "cosmic -consciousness " if you like.

I know most practitioners and consultants are Christian but there MUST be those who are not, so I am wondering what such people do instead of speaking to Jesus/God/Saints or saying bible prayers. I'm sure there are others who feel like me, albeit they are a very small minority.

My questions are these:

1) Certain spells and rituals might involve reading a prayer, petitioning a saint or just mentioning the word GOD or JESUS. Can such things be substituted /adapted by a person doing a Hoodoo spell, so for example instead of beseeching God or Jesus, one could instead ask for the assistance of the "All that is" or "source of all creation" etc ??

2) Instead of a specific prayer, could one adopt ones own petition, basically making something up that is very similar to what the prayer contains, only it would be more like asking help from "the universe" instead of "God".

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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by Mama Micki » Fri Sep 02, 2011 8:10 am

Pixiemushroom --

You are free to do whatever you want spiritually. However, hoodoo originated with African-American, mostly Protestant Christians, and prayers to God and Jesus, and use of the Psalms is traditional.
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by Dr Johannes » Fri Sep 02, 2011 11:32 am

Belief in the efficiency of magic, in the work you do and the products you use is sufficient to make things work.

Believing the opposite of what one is doing is also effective to get the results of such beliefs: Nothing will happen.

As far as religion go: Calling St. Michael will get the attention of St. Michael. But if you do not believe in him it would be impossible to hear him or believe it is him who speaks or acts.

Belief in nothing will get you nothing.
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by catherineyronwode » Fri Sep 02, 2011 11:56 am

Pixiemushroom --

Frankly, i can't imagine why any atheist, agnostic, unbeliever, or anti-Christian -- unless he or she is an anthropologist or an ethnographer -- would want to study hoodoo, and i can't imagine why anyone would want to practice it who did not accept its precepts.

This is not to say that one must be a formal adherent to an Abrahamic religion to practice conjure -- but there is no real point in joining a community of mostly African American Protestant Spiritual spell casters and learning how they perform magic if you don't have at least something in common with them.

Hoodoo is the art of those who are, primarily:

1) African Americans from anywhere in the USA, or Southerners of any ethnicity, or people anywhere who are familiar with, supportive of, and integrated into African American and Southern culture-ways

2) Adherents of a Judeo-Christian religion (often, but not exclusively, Protestant Christianity)

3) Willing to practice domestic folk magic according to the precepts of (1) and (2).

In my experience, three out of that three is the ideal, but even if you only start with two out of the three, you'll enjoy yourself in the study and practice of conjure and you will find hoodoo to be copacetic with your beliefs, lifestyle, and aspirations.

In my experience, starting with only one out of the three generally doesn't lead to permanent interest in rootworking unless you are an academic who is writing a thesis on the subject. Folks with one out of the three can learn the "system" of hoodoo, but it will not be part of their hearts.

Now, pixiemushroom, i may be wrong, but it seems to me from what you wrote above that you are starting with one out of the three, and if that is the case, i doubt that this will be your path or that you will stick around for more than two years, or three at the most. No offense, that's just what i have learned from my experience as a teacher and shop-keeper in this community.

In the meantime, enjoy this video. It may help you understand what i'm talking about:

Beulah Missionary Baptist Church, Albany, GA.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rw1pC3TvtXQ
Song: Work It Out!!!
Pastor J.H. Reynolds
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by Dr Johannes » Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:39 pm

tokumbo78 wrote:...Can hoodoo OVERPOWER work done with other magical systems?
This is a common question, but unfortunately it is going about it the wrong way. Is a Mexican dog stronger than a Russian dog? Well, if the Mexican beats the Russian one it probably has very little to do with the country of origin, right? A baseball bat made in the US is stronger than a bat made in China?
See?

The second problem with the question is about power. A mouse can sometimes overpower an elephant. A grain of sand can destroy the most powerful computor in the world. A ton of sugar will not make a Honey jar more effective.
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by Turnsteel » Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:41 pm

pixiemushroom wrote:
I am a white woman from the UK who is extremely drawn to Hoodoo but don't like or want anything to do with the Christian side of things.
Well, that's a rather large problem when it comes to studying a form of Christian folk magic isn't it? For that is what rootwork is, Christian folk magic from the southern united states. If you are anti-christian, why even bother trying to learn Christian folk magic? Surely it would be easier to find a form of magic more copacetic to your spiritual path then trying to modify a living tradition to suit you?

Just my thoughts on the matter.
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by ConjureMan Ali » Fri Sep 02, 2011 2:27 pm

Pixiemushroom--

Hoodoo is intimately tied to folk-Christianity, but is not a religion in of itself. You do not have to be any specific religion to practice hoodoo, but if you have issues with Christianity, which forms the very spiritual basis of hoodoo, then you'll have difficulties studying and being part of this tradition. One cannot divorce the Christian elements out of hoodoo.

Now it is also important to bear in mind that the Christianity of hoodoo is folk-Christianity, which is often very different from the Christainity of orthodoxy.

If you have an issue with Christianity and cannot reconcile them, but are still interested in folk magic then there are plenty of other folk magic traditions to look at. However if you want to practice hoodoo then get comfortable with the Bible and Jesus.
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by stelz » Fri Sep 02, 2011 4:10 pm

ConjureMan Ali,

You make a very good point here.

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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by catherineyronwode » Fri Sep 02, 2011 5:08 pm

I have had to send out several board warnings and delete posts in this thread because while engaged in the discussion of religion certain people are ignoring or flouting the Terms of Service of this forum by making defamatory, slanderous, irreverent, abusive, and harassing comments about various religions.

It is perfectly permissible and acceptable to discuss religion in this thread, but the conversation must be kept civil and respectful to all people and all religions.

Anyone who submits posts that defame, slander, or disrespect any person or any religious organization is in violation of forum rules.

People who post disrespectful, slanderous, antagonistic, and prejudiced statements often claim to have read the Forum Rules but they do not seem to understand that the rules are enforced every day, typically with 3 board warnings, and, if the offenses persist, with banning.

Just to make this all quite clear, i will now post the entirety of the Lucky Mojo Forum Rules.

--------------------

Lucky Mojo Forum Rules

Violation of any of these rules can be expected to lead to the immediate suspension of your account and could lead to legal action being taken against you by appropriate authorities or aggrieved parties. Be aware that in exceptional circumstances the owners and operators of the Lucky Mojo Forum could be legally obliged to reveal your registration information and/or IP address to the authorities.

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I will conclude by reposting something i first posted in this thread in March of 2010, about 1 1/2 years ago:

Thinking about bashing the religion you were raised in?

Don't do it here.

Thinking about bashing a religion that you joined and later left?

Don't do it here.

Thinking about bashing a religion that you think is "evil"?

Don't do it here.

Just don't.

Thanks.
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by stelz » Fri Sep 02, 2011 5:21 pm

Mea culpa, Miss Cat. It won't happen again.

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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by catherineyronwode » Sat Sep 03, 2011 8:13 pm

Stelz, to answer your question from a ways up this thread on the relationship (if any) between Kardecist Spiritism and Umbanda:

Kardec, whose real name was Hippolyte Léon Denizard Rivail, was a French writer on Spiritualism.

Kardecist Spiritism is a form of Spiritualism that differs from most others because Kardec promoted a belief in reincarnation.

Reincarnation is not a part of the theology of the other major branches of Spiritualism, among which are included "pure" Spiritualism, Christian Spiritualism, Mexican Espiritismo, and Eclectic Spiritualistm.

Although Kadecist Spiritism is called Espiritismo Kardecista in Spanish, it should not be confused with the Mexican religion Espiritismo, which is known in the English language as Mexican Spiritualism. The two religions are not particularly friendly to one another, as a matter of fact.

Kardec was not a member of an African-Diasporic religion in any way, shape, or form. The religion he founded, Spiritism, owes nothing to the African-diasporic religion known as Umbanda.

A person practicing Umbanda can include Kardecist Spiritism in his or her practice, at least to a certain degree, but the two are not the same.

For more information, please read this web page.

Category:Working Within the Spiritualist Tradition
http://readersandrootworkers.org/wiki/C ... _Tradition
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by ConjureMan Ali » Sun Sep 04, 2011 10:12 am

Umbanda has adopted some elements of Kardec's Spiritism, especially its ranking of spirits. Spiritism however is not Umbanda, nor is influenced by it. The later is an Afro-Brazilian religion.
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by stelz » Sun Sep 04, 2011 2:55 pm

Thanks for that, the overview makes it a lot clearer.

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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by Done1 » Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:41 am

Lately I've been spiritually confused and I'm not sure how to handle it.

I've been trying my hardest to live a life to please God and God only, while also praying to Saints (though I'm Christian Baptist), but lately... something inside of my soul is aching and screaming to go back into practicing magick.

The problem is that when I get started practicing, I feel like I'm a junkie, and the moment someone hurts me in any form, I want pay back and when I do get that payback...its never PRETTY.

Oh and not to mention, I want the pleasure of being able to control my own life and destiny, which now I think is unrealistic, but then again since this is a website for Hoodoo; I can't deny I really don't know much about Hoodoo and Conjure nor what it can do.

I'm SICK of my old way of thinking, I'm sick of my old way of thinking and I want to live to please God, but I can't deny that there's a "witch" living and breathing inside of me who can and has done really good things, but who can also be very dangerous. It feels like its just my nature.

Does this make any sense?

WIlla

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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by Mary Bee » Wed Oct 26, 2011 12:42 pm

Hi Willa:

No one can tell you whether or not to practice magic; that is a decision to make between you and God. If you're torn between Christianity and magic, Hoodoo is derived from African American Protestant Christianity so the majority of the practitioners were church-going Black Americans.

You may have a gift for vengeful and "hard" conjure, but that doesn't mean that you should go around blasting everyone who hurts you "in any form". As it is said in the Good Book, "Vengenance is mine, saith the Lord." Many Rootworkers won't do cursing, hot footing or "darker" works unless it is justified by God. How do you tell if it's "justified by God"? By prayer and divination.

I would suggest getting a reading from a member of the Association of Independent Readers and Rootworkers at http://www.readersandrootworkers.org, and ask them to assess what your spiritual gifts are and how to best develop them. Pray to God for guidance. Ask the reader for advice on spiritual cleansing of yourself, your property and surroundings so you will be cleansed and blessed, and more focused.

And read the TONS of free links on Lucky mojo.com regarding spiritual cleansing, Psalms for conjure work, and see the wealth of tradition behind Christianity and Hoodoo :)

Blessings,
Mary Bee
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by Done1 » Wed Oct 26, 2011 6:23 pm

Well I don't want to harm anyone anymore and thats me being honest. I don't feel like the vengeance thing is a gift, but rather a curse, because why do I need to endure pain in order to activate my personal power? Pain is definitely my curse and it sucks, which is another reason why I went to God for help.

Right now I feel like I want to pray to God and practice magick so I suppose that Hoodoo is the best for me.

In terms of me hurting people, I think that for me at this point in my life is unnecessary. I just want to work on getting my life together with that being Love and Finances.

I feel like if I just get things right for myself than I would not want to EVER hurt anyone ever again.

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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by ConjureMan Ali » Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:34 pm

It sounds like a personal problem to me.

Magic is a responsibility; just because you have the ability to do something doesn't mean you should. Just as if you have a gun doesn't mean you go shooting anyone who cuts you off on the road.

Grow in your spirituality so that you don't have that temptation.

In my opinion, don't blame the tool, take a closer look at who's wielding it.
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by Done1 » Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:49 am

ConjureMan Ali wrote:It sounds like a personal problem to me.

Magic is a responsibility; just because you have the ability to do something doesn't mean you should. Just as if you have a gun doesn't mean you go shooting anyone who cuts you off on the road.

Grow in your spirituality so that you don't have that temptation.

In my opinion, don't blame the tool, take a closer look at who's wielding it.
Ok, again...I don't want to harm ANYONE.

This post was made for me to ask does it make any sense of me wanting to pray and also about working with magick; it wasn't me boasting about cursing anyone and screaming, "I'M GONNA PUT A WAMMY ON SOMEONE".

I don't understand why this topic has turned left when all I did was ask a question at the end of it, so I don't understand why me telling how I WAS has overtaken this entire thread. I did however say that way of thinking was in the past and that I just want to get my life in terms of finances and love together. Oh and Yes I did say that the moment someone does anything to me I'm danegrous, but trust me if I was anything like how I was, this would be a much angrier post and there would be a lot of hurt ppl out there.

I have done a lot of cleansing and feel and think a whole lot better than I used to, but thought it was simply OK to write how I WAS. Now I let karma handle ppl, and leave my life in God's hands.

I was just asking does it make any sense to want magick and religion together.

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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by autumnalflower » Thu Oct 27, 2011 6:05 am

It does make sense and that's why I turned to hoodoo/conjure work after exploring wicca.

In my opinion getting a reading from an AIRR reader would help you figure the best path to blend the two. Keep praying/meditating on it and you will get your answer even if you may not realize the answer right off. In the least you could light white candles dressed with olive oil and burn them before bed while praying for direction, I've had good results with this in help seeking for answers.

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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by aura » Thu Oct 27, 2011 6:30 am

Hi Willa,

rest assured that ConjureMan Ali didn't ''turn left'' (from my point of view for what it's worth ;) ) - he responded as much to the way this thread was titled as to some of the comments you made in your intial post:
Willa wrote:The problem is that when I get started practicing, I feel like I'm a junkie, and the moment someone hurts me in any form, I want pay back and when I do get that payback...its never PRETTY.
words have meaning. the ones you choose to use will determine how what is written is perceived and responded to. the best advice he gave which holds true for everyone is:
ConjureMan Ali wrote: Grow in your spirituality
that said, if you're only asking if magick and religion are mutually exclusive: the answer is no; and yes! It depends on the religion, your personal paradigm and how you negotiate the two. Hoodoo is intimately linked Christianity, Baptists amongst them. LM sells an excellent scholarly book that touches on the subject (amongst many others) that you may want to look into: Black Magic by Yvonne Chireau (BOO-FLS-BMCP 23.95$).

Finally, you ask if there's sense in ''wanting to pray and also work with magick'': the answer is that this makes a lot of sense. If you take the time to read Miss Cat's on-line book ''Hoodoo in Theory and Practice'', you'll find that prayer is a fundamental part of Conjure. Reading through the following pages can give you some inspiration on how to combine the two:
http://www.luckymojo.com/hoodoohistory.html#admixtures
http://www.luckymojo.com/secretspsalms.html

Blessings and all the best on the path you choose to walk.
Aura Laforest
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by Mama Micki » Thu Oct 27, 2011 9:36 am

Hoodoo work is prayer using tools such as herbs, roots, oils, candles, etc to help us focus. Ultimately God has the final say whether a prayer is answered.
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by Done1 » Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:53 am

Hello Aura,

Well the title was originally DOES THIS MAKE ANY SENSE, and I guess a moderator changed it.

When I say go left I meant like its going in a not so correct direction...I just didn't want the whole point of what I was trying to make, to be focused on the few things I said, particularly the sentences you mentioned. Now in terms of books, I soooo need to read more and get more books on this. I have POWER OF THE SAINTS by RAY T. MALBROUGH but I don't want to sit here and lie and pretend as if I SERIOUSLY read it! Lol, I think I'm just at a stage in my life where I don't want to be that miserable vindictive witch anymore...its pointless. I've finally grown up a little bit more and I'm VERY proud of that. I just want to pray and ask that God helps me to get my life back in order, and help me to help my family. Hope this last part makes sense...

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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by Done1 » Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:58 am

Mama Micki wrote:Hoodoo work is prayer using tools such as herbs, roots, oils, candles, etc to help us focus. Ultimately God has the final say whether a prayer is answered.
Hmmm, so God won't think of me as a sinner? I know this is soooo weird to ask, its just SOME (not all) Christians don't agree with that. I'm not saying I'm one of them because clearly I'm not, but I just need to understand these things ya know? I've been called a sinner and devil worshipper before due to my practicing magick.

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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by Done1 » Thu Oct 27, 2011 11:04 am

autumnalflower wrote:It does make sense and that's why I turned to hoodoo/conjure work after exploring wicca. In my opinion get a reading from an airr reader would help you figure the best path to blend the two. Keep praying/meditating on it and you will get your answer even if you may not realize the answer right off. In the least you could light white candles dressed with olive oil and burn them before bed while praying for direction, I've had good results with this in help seeking for answers.
Yea I just feel sooo confused. I told myself I wouldn't touch magick again, but to thine own self be true..in my case magick is in my blood and my grandfather to what I was told did some pretty evil things with and without magick and was killed for it. I don't want to end up like him. So I just urn the candles nightly?

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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by autumnalflower » Thu Oct 27, 2011 11:47 am

I would until you get an answer...it helped me with what I wanted to do when I first started, or you can do it for 3 or 7. You don't have to do anything evil if you don't want to! I believe we have choices in what we want to do(free will.). I do think a reading from an airr member can help you give you the best advice. I say pray and hand it over to god, pray psalm 23 after lighting and concentrate on your intent. But that is something that has helped me, I'm sure someone with more experience can give you more indepth advice.

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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by Joseph Magnuson » Thu Oct 27, 2011 12:05 pm

Willa,

As autumnalflower has stated, an AIRR reading with a qualified reader may provide you with the clarity you seek in regards to this situation. There doesn't seem like much more we can do or recommend for your personal struggle.

I would also like to remind you that the purpose of the Lucky Mojo Forums is for customers of the Lucky Mojo Curio Company to ask questions about, and discuss, the supplies sold by the shop. We would be more than happy to help recommend some spellwork or rootwork for you if you decide to ask.

I would dress an orange candle with some King Solomon Wisdom Oil and Clarity OIl and spend some quiet time figuring out what your next step should be.
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by ConjureMan Ali » Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:00 pm

You've posted on a public forum, so expect responses and answers taht you may not like to hear. Such is the nature of posting a personal issue on a public forum.

I am happy that you've grown since then, but the fact that you are still struggling to come to terms with concepts of sin and trying to please your creator means that you need some introspection. Ultimately these questions--while good--are off-topic and can only be answered by you.
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by Done1 » Thu Oct 27, 2011 5:15 pm

Joseph Magnuson wrote:Willa,

As autumnalflower has stated, an AIRR reading with a qualified reader may provide you with the clarity you seek in regards to this situation. There doesn't seem like much more we can do or recommend for your personal struggle.

I would also like to remind you that the purpose of the Lucky Mojo Forums is for customers of the Lucky Mojo Curio Company to ask questions about, and discuss, the supplies sold by the shop. We would be more than happy to help recommend some spellwork or rootwork for you if you decide to ask.

I would dress an orange candle with some King Solomon Wisdom Oil and Clarity OIl and spend some quiet time figuring out what your next step should be.
I don't have KING SOLOMON OIL, can you show me the link to it? Plus I reached out to a few AIRR memebers and two responded but we did not discuss a reading. Funds are low NOW, but this upcoming week, that is something that I need to do and stop procrastinating about it. I'm not going to lie...after dealing with two psychic's whom I now think gyped me, I'm sort of scared. Not that the AIRR members would do that to me, but when that stuff happens it is hurtful not to mention the stuff they tell you, smh.

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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by autumnalflower » Thu Oct 27, 2011 6:34 pm

http://www.luckymojo.com/products-king- ... isdom.html (for the line of King Solomon Wisdom Oil)
http://www.luckymojo.com/products-clarity.html (Clarity line of products)
and this one may be of use to you as well, ROSE OF CRUCIFIXION OIL
To abolish fear and soothe a troubled mind.
Link to candles http://www.luckymojo.com/mojocatcandles.html and how to use them, this link has other information as well that comes in very handy.
http://www.luckymojo.com/candlemagic.html

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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by Done1 » Thu Oct 27, 2011 7:08 pm

autumnalflower wrote:http://www.luckymojo.com/products-king- ... isdom.html (for the line of King Solomon Wisdom Oil)
http://www.luckymojo.com/products-clarity.html (Clarity line of products)
and this one may be of use to you as well, ROSE OF CRUCIFIXION OIL
To abolish fear and soothe a troubled mind.
Link to candles http://www.luckymojo.com/mojocatcandles.html and how to use them, this link has other information as well that comes in very handy.
http://www.luckymojo.com/candlemagic.html
Oh , thank you very much :-)!!!!

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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by catherineyronwode » Thu Oct 27, 2011 7:20 pm

This is cat. I retitled the thread. The original title -- DOES THIS MAKE ANY SENSE-- referrred to nothing. It violated our rules about titles, which states that they should be specific, so that other users can find topics by title. I based the new title on these two sentences you wrote, particularly the portions in bold type.
I've been trying my hardest to live a life to please God and God only, while also praying to Saints (though I'm Christian Baptist), but lately... something inside of my soul is aching and screaming to go back into practicing magick. [...] I can't deny that there's a "witch" living and breathing inside of me who can and has done really good things, but who can also be very dangerous.
Your worries about pleasing God versus practicing magic seem to be founded upon your own extremely narrow view of religion. Most world religions incorporate magic. The main reason that Catholic Christianity does not is that long ago it sought to consolidate magical power in the hands of its own priesthood, and in order to do that, it undertook to condemn Jews, Muslims, and Pagans who used magico-spiritual practices outside of the rules laid down by the likes of Saint Thomas Aquinas. Even so, there is a long and vibrant tradition of magic among Catholics. Whole books have been written on the subject.

Protestant Christianity varies a great deal from denomination to denomination with respect to the amount of Jewish and Pagan folk magic included within the practices of congregants. Generally speaking, Protestant Christianity incorporates a great deal of local Pagan beliefs, including the recitations of magical formulae for healing, cursing, love-drawing, and money-luck.

If you would take the time to study Christianity, you would find that the braucherei of the Pennsylvania German Americans is Christian folk magic, the hoodoo or conjure of Southern African Americans is Christian folk magic, and there are other God-centered religions, such as Taoism and Hinduism, in which clrgy members, priests, and monks typically make magical amulets and talismans for congregants, right in their holy temples.

You describe yourself as a Baptist who venerates Catholic saints. That alone is more heretical to the Baptist Church than practicing folk magic!

You wasted your money on fake psychics so you are "scared" to get a reading from an ethical reader from AIRR.

You "reached out to" (spammed) the AIRR roster without arranging to pay for a reading, but when only two AIRR readers replied to your request for a free counselling session, you came here to ask random forum strangers if it is bad (or good) to be a Baptist-Catholic witch.

And then, after boasting about your skills at cursing, you got all defensive when those skills were mentioned by folks who responded to you.

I am merging this thread into the hugely long thread on religion.
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by SweetLady » Thu Oct 27, 2011 8:45 pm

Hi ConjureMan,

Just now read your post, after like Months :lol:

Yes, I am rather timid...I've been called this before.

I think that my association of hoodoo with being exposed to criminal underground (as you put it :) )came from my reading and learning in the forum that hoodoo does not subscribe to any form of "karmic law" or "principle of threes"...or "harm none" rule.

I know there are conflicts that occur in other traditions too, but the other traditions almost always try to forewarn people that what they do can have consequences. And, that it is best to always put good things out so that only good can return to you. This axiom makes perfect sense to me. But I know that violence doesn't belong to any one tradition...

I apologize if that seemed to be what I was assuming (it is not). I just felt concerned that there is no "rule" about what one chooses to do.

I guess, to me, it seems logical that people would choose hoodoo over other forms of magic because there is no "rule" or criticism for doing destructive magic spells...does that make sense?

I guess I am talking more about a probability thing.

I know that in every other magical tradition I have encountered, the first rule is usually something like "do what you will, but harm none" or it is the principle of threes. Furthermore, most adepts of these types of traditions shun those who disregard the rules for "harm none" and the like.

I am no newbie to magic, but a newbie to a kind of magic that does not have some sort of "do unto others" rule, ya know?

Perhaps you have more hoodoo knowledge to share with me on this subject? If so, that would be very much welcomed and appreciated, as I love learning about magic, and my newest obsession is hoodoo ;)

Thanks for your response...Love and Blessings, SweetLady
Thank You Saint Anthony, finder of lost items for always finding my lost items. Thank You!

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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by ConjureMan Ali » Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:24 pm

Hello SweetLady,

You are gravely mistaken when you state that many other magical traditions always teach some type of "karmic" "harm-none rule." I am versed in Goetic magick, necromancy, rootwork, Arabian djinn magic, and several of the African Diasporic Traditions and various other traditions and each of these leave matters of ethics up to the individual. Why? Because they are magical traditions, not religions. Ethics is the realm of religion and personal belief. Conjure tells people to square things away with their God, not to do whatever they feel like.

Again this misinterpretation of what is being taught is derived from a lack of understanding of the tradition itself. Conjure is not a "do whatever you want" tradition. You have instead assumed it is so because we do not expressly tell you want to do. Why should we? We are not the priests of conjure--that is for you and your God to decide.

What you've encountered are magico-religious systems where "rules" and "ethics" are tied into a hierarchical "system". Conjure is no such thing. It is a family tradition passed down from generation from generation. The same people who taught you how to keep your man would also teach you what was right and wrong. What you have is a set of wisdom, not a set of man-made rules passed down by so-called priests and priestesses.
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by catherineyronwode » Fri Oct 28, 2011 6:14 pm

Thank you, Conjureman Ali -- that was very well put.

Sweetlady, Ali is right -- very few magical traditions come with "rules."

It is taken for granted that those who come to such a tradition from within the culture that nourished it would be fully versed in the religious traditions of that culture's theology.

In the case of hoodoo, the theological ground is Protestant Christian for the most part, with some practitioners being Catholics, and a few outliers and newcomers being adherents of other religions, such as Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Voodoo, Kemetism, Santeria, Palo, Wicca, Feri, and so forth.

Most Christians are taught right from wrong very early on and when learning a new skill -- from how to cast a spell to how to cook or how to play football -- they don't need to be told a set of "rules" about punishments to make them abide by the morality of the Bible, because they already know those rules.

Here is the rule followed by most practitioners of hoodoo:

Matthew 7:12 -- Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

In common, everyday Christian conversations, it is expressed as

"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

But note that the commonly-spoken version leaves out some important background -- "for this is the law and the [teaching of] the prophets."

So Christians have a "law" too, just like Wiccans and Thelemites. We call it "The Golden Rule."
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by SweetLady » Tue Nov 01, 2011 11:38 am

Thanks You Miss Cat!
That is exactly what I was looking for! It would be nice if those verses or information appeared on the LM site somewhere! Maybe as a subheading or banner or something? That would be most helpful to people who, as ConjureMan believes "misinterprate" hoodoo or it's ethics/rules. I was looking for them, and found none on the site except notions about it all being up to the individual...which seems kind of dangerous or scary if you give it some thought. And if a person new to hoodoo, and also not from the culture it belongs too, does not have that information, how else are they supposed to know it? But, your explanation provided me with precisely the explanation I needed, and without naming me as "inexperienced" or as a "newbie" and such! Thanks so much! ~SweetLady
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by catherineyronwode » Tue Nov 01, 2011 12:08 pm

SweetLady, i understand your desire for me to publish the Golden Rule on my many web sites, because the idea of people working conjure or other forms of folk magic according to their own religious, ethical, or cultural training might be misinterpreted. However, in all the years i have worked in this field as a scyer, practitioner, manufacturer, and teacher, the erroneous idea that hoodoo -- the folk magic of African Americans and others from the US South -- is practiced by people who have "no rules" has only come up a few times, and only from people who have just dropped in casually via an internet connection.

The relationship between African American culture and religious and magical traditions is covered in depth in my Correspondence Course, but as far as my public sites go, i serve people of all religions and cultures and, having searched my heart, i believe my service should be to assisting my fellow practitioners, to keeping the traditions alive and fluent in the digital age. I do refuse to harm animals in my practice or to traffic in endangered species, and i do speak out about these things. However, i do not pretend to have been granted any sort of moral or doctirnal "authority" over any of my fellow practitioners, many of whom have more years of practice or a longer family tradition in this work than i do.

I did learn how to play tambourine, however -- and you can too:

How To Play Tambourine In A Black Church
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqgZYTwPDtA
Just playing around after church with my family (and best comment: "If you were raised COGIC you LEARNED how to play the tambourine if nothing else! If NOTHING else lol")
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by ConjureMan Ali » Tue Nov 01, 2011 11:33 pm

Matters of faith and ethics are not for us to dictate to others, but for others to act upon by CONVICTION. If you feel that it is "dangerous" for matters of ethics to be left up to the individual then you must somehow assume that man is by very nature incapable of thinking for himself. Hoodoo and conjure is not a tradition of priests and priestesses, it is instead taught and passed down by spirit-led people who live their lives according to the convictions of their faith and the expressions of their family traditions. It is up to each and every individual to search their heart and act according to those convictions.

Where there is a "rule" about it or not people have to choose for *themselves* whether to use a hammer to bash someone's head in or to knock a nail into the wall.
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