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Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

Re: Do Saints Get Tired?

Unread postby ConjureMan Ali » Tue Dec 29, 2009 11:52 pm

Far from spirits getting tired, they are energized by work they do. When we turn to a being in prayer, when we petition, when we summon, we are giving something of ourself to the entity. This is how some thoughtforms go from being personal thoughtforms to near divine status. In the chaoite community they created a powerful entity called Fotemecus using this theory. Now, thousands of people call on him to do alter time... The idea being that the more people believe, the more people give energy to a being the more it grows, the further is power. One might argue that this is why some Saints like to be publically recognized for their work.

Energy is permeated in such a way that an entity that has ascended from individual consciousness now is able to spread out their consciousness that they no longer are limited by the contraints of time and space. Furthermore, various entities like Saints are happy to help people along in their journey as they are now part of a Divine Love that is selfless... But enough pontificating. If you seek more about this topic there are plenty of books on this.
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Re: Do Saints Get Tired?

Unread postby Loved » Wed Dec 30, 2009 8:02 pm

Thank you.
Devi Spring, the comparison of the holograph was helpful. Also the concept that they have helpers of similar mission is nice to think of. So that if I were to place my offering to the Saint outdoors, it's quite possible that a bird nibbling on the cake or a bee buzzing about the honey would in fact "be" the Saint - so to speak. I've heard a voice call my name more than once in the wee hours of the morning. I hope it was a Saint! ;) Thanks again for such great food for thought.

ConjureMan,
I enjoy your pontificating ;) . Input from all sides helps all us of grow. I'm going to look up the chaoite community and see what that's all about.
I never looked at it as my prayers and petitions were giving energy as opposed to taking energy away. I guess that's just me being human - and relating to how I feel when so much is asked of me. It would stand to reason that on a higher plane giving is not at all taxing.
I have a large library at home, but the section on Hoodoo is still in it's infancy. My having come to it how and when I did. I would love to check out the books you mention. If you can give a specific title, that would be great. If it comes from LM all the better! I plan to order a batch of oils soon and it would be great to have a new book in the box as well. I have the HHRM hardcover already and love it.

Take care both of you. Happy New Year - PJ!
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Re: Do Saints Get Tired?

Unread postby ConjureMan Ali » Wed Dec 30, 2009 11:14 pm

The books I referred to are not specifically about Hoodoo, but rather deal with theories about working with entities and spirits and such. Part of my studies as a high magician. I believe Malbrough has a book specifically about Saints.

One of the best ways of wrapping our heads around how on a higher level giving is not taxing, one can refer back to the Biblical injunction to serve (John 21: 15), or how Muslims are repeatedly commanded to both pray and pay the Zakat (poor-rate; 2: 43, 5:12, 9:18)
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working with anima sola, intranquil spirit, and saint martha

Unread postby lilac » Sun Feb 14, 2010 12:27 pm

i've been working with a rootworker and she suggested i do a triad using anima sola, the intranquil spirit, and saint martha the dominator. what is the best way to know if they have agreed to work with me?
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Re: working with anima sola, intranquil spirit, and saint martha

Unread postby Devi Spring » Sun Feb 14, 2010 12:51 pm

If your rootworker suggested this work for you, then I would assume that s/he did a divination that already showed this would be a good combo for you.
If you have concerns, you need to talk to your rootworker about them since they are the one who knows your case and has read on it already.
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Re: working with anima sola, intranquil spirit, and saint martha

Unread postby NotDorianGray » Sun Feb 14, 2010 1:57 pm

I second this advice.

I also, however, recommend you read up on these three and see how they make you feel. Try praying to them and/or meditating ont hem before beginning any active work. Look at establishing a relationship. Familiarise yourself with them and the things they can do. You'll quickly get a feeling for them that way, and it certainly won't do you any harm.
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Re: working with anima sola, intranquil spirit, and saint martha

Unread postby lilac » Sun Feb 14, 2010 2:49 pm

thanks so much for the info!
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Jealous Spirits?

Unread postby Miss Phoenix » Sat Feb 20, 2010 2:39 pm

I have been looking through the site to find something on this topic so forgive me if I missed it.

I have plans to do some work for a situation in which a judge did something unethical.

I wanted to work with St. Expedite but he has not been great at working with me.

So I have been thinking of doing reversal and court case work also.

I basically would like to know if spirits get jealous or have issues with you doing other work besides not just working with them. I can understand that in doing any spiritual work one must have FAITH but just want to know how I should approach working with 'spirits' in general and which ones (if any) will get jealous or upset if you do anything else besides work with them on your case
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Re: Jealous Spirits?

Unread postby Devi Spring » Sat Feb 20, 2010 3:13 pm

If you have not made any pacts/agreements with any spirits regarding exclusivity or anything of that matter, then generally if a spirit has not granted your petition, you are free to try other paths to your goal.

However, if you've been trying to attain something and have not been seeing any movement, then you should get a reading done on the situation to see what exactly is going on before investing anymore time/money/energy into that work.
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Re: Jealous Spirits?

Unread postby catherineyronwode » Sat Feb 20, 2010 6:02 pm

If you have worked with a Catholic Saint and concluded your arrangement (that is, kept your vow / made your payment / posted your thanks for work well done -- or stopped the work and walked away if the spirit did not help you), then you are absolutely free to engage other spirits. There are indeed "jealous" and "dangerous" spirits -- but the problems generally arise because they were promised something and it was denied.

Court case work, like most hoodoo, is not dependent on working with Catholic saints. Your prayers for justice can be made directly to God through the 35th Psalm of King David in the Bible.

You may also call upon the spirit of the great King Solomon, the Judge of Israel, to convict the judge before the Lord.
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Re: Jealous Spirits?

Unread postby ConjureMan Ali » Sat Feb 20, 2010 6:42 pm

Calling upon King Solomon is a good one, I've seen that one performed before. I've also seen people call upon the Accuser, which is the role Satan plays in some circles of Judaism, that of God's Accusing Right Hand. Justice herself is a powerful spirit and can be called upon.

Saints aren't going to suddenly punish you if you decide to work on your own towards your ends. However, you must pay them their dues when they come through for some are known for taking it back and then some, Saint Expedite being one of them.
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Re: Jealous Spirits?

Unread postby jwmcclin » Sat Feb 20, 2010 7:12 pm

I agree with ConjureMan...the main thing is when you petition a saint whether he helps you are not give him his due.
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Re: Jealous Spirits?

Unread postby nknk » Sat Feb 20, 2010 7:38 pm

CM, how do you invoke spirit of Justice?
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Re: Jealous Spirits?

Unread postby Miss Phoenix » Sat Feb 20, 2010 8:23 pm

Thanks so much. The last time I worked with St Expedite I still paid him his due nevertheless but I was wondering if the reason he did not work for me is because I was doing other work (probably should have asked this before hand anyway) But thanks for easing my mind on this because I was surely concerned as to whether doing both would be hazardous. Thanks for letting me know it is not :)
I think I will use the spirit of Justice and King Solomon while doing my court case work and also have someone at LM burn candles for me.

Thanks again
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Re: Jealous Spirits?

Unread postby sparkel81 » Thu Feb 25, 2010 7:07 pm

Hi everyone! not sure if i'm supposed to post this question here....But i was reading here something that was on my mind concerning a one of tha saints,St. expedite now i have petioned him to help me with a situation and i'm not sure how long should one wait? although i was told st.expedite was supposed to help speed up tha process of things and he has not granted me my request,Now should i still give him tha flowers and pound cake even though i see no results?
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Re: Jealous Spirits?

Unread postby jwmcclin » Thu Feb 25, 2010 7:24 pm

sparkel81 once the petition or wish has been granted, you must offer him a glass of red wine and some pound cake. Read LM's page here http://www.luckymojo.com/saintexpedite.html
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Re: Jealous Spirits?

Unread postby starsinthesky7 » Fri Feb 26, 2010 12:50 am

Sparkel81...in the future, I would recommend when you petition st expedite to perhaps give him a date to grant your matter by. That way you will not move on and then he makes something happen for you...and then he will not take away from you what he gave you and more. So giving an adequate deadline such as maybe 3 weeks or so depending upon the difficulty of your matter would probably be enough time.
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Working With Catholic Saints: General Questions and Answers

Unread postby illey » Sat Mar 06, 2010 10:59 pm

Hi, a quick question for you all...

Is it ok to petition multiple saints concerning the same matter? For example, if i ask for help from St Anthony and St Martha on the same issue, is that considered ok to do? If I was doing the nine consecutive Tuesdays petition to St Martha, could I still be asking help from St Anthony about the same thing daily? I guess I'm worried about causing any confusion or showing disrespect.

Thanks very much!
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Re: Petitioning multiple saints with the same thing?

Unread postby ConjureMan Ali » Sat Mar 06, 2010 11:53 pm

Generally, it's alright to work with multiple saints. They are spirits that work towards the betterment and overall good so they are not opposed to working towards the same ends in a petition. There *are* some spirits that may not work together, however.

What would be recommended is that as you petition one saint, ask them for their help, but also let them know that you wish to petition another saint and see if that is fine with them. You'll get a sense of whether they prefer to take on the issue by themselves, or they are fine if another saint is also petitioned.
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Working with the spirits

Unread postby taralight » Sun Mar 07, 2010 1:33 pm

Could anyone give me some advice on working with the spirits? I know some of the forum members have strong connections with certain spirits and call on them when doing magical work. However personally I feel I'm a bit of a spiritual dud. I believe in spirits, I just can't 'feel' or 'hear' them the way others seem able to. I'm feeling slightly helpless at the moment as I've just been through literally the hardest year in my life, and to be able to call on spiritual assistance just for a little speedy help occasionally would make all the difference. But I have no idea which spirit to work with and how to connect with them.

Growing up in a Catholic school, we were taught to call on St Anthony, St Jude or our guardian angels but I've never had that 'wow that was a quick response - I know they're listening!!' moment. My family actually has a sort of guardian spirit whom I've petitioned on a number of occasions. He is great for protection and health, and sometimes assisting for career or luck. I love him and trust him, but he hasn't really come through when I ask for help with interpersonal relationships or love. I've asked repeatedly to be able to feel or hear messages and signs from him, but until now I've only been able to communicate with him when someone else channels. While he'll always be special to me, I feel like maybe I should be trying to build a rapport with a spirit or saint who is 'right' for me and understands what I need in my life. I just don't know who that is or how to develop that connection.

Thoughts?
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Re: Working with the spirits

Unread postby Dr Johannes » Sun Mar 07, 2010 1:45 pm

It is less about the connection and more about your own senses and perceptional ability. I suggest you focus more on developing them more, before you take on the spirits.
What did you feel before you called the spirit? In your body? In your mind? In the room? What kind of thought did you have before? And after?
What changes wothin and around you when you go from one room to another?
Many people like to use LM Psychic Vision products to help this process.

Cleansing usually clears up the senses when they are astrally clogged up. So start taking a few of those before you practice.
Cleansing a room first will make distinguising new impressions far easier, so Buffalo Ammonia along with Chinese Wash is a good way to prepare a room before any excersise as well.

Good luck.

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Re: Working with the spirits

Unread postby taralight » Mon Mar 08, 2010 2:13 pm

Thanks for your reply Johannes! Oddly enough, the night of writing this post, I was thinking about St Michael and had an unexpected feeling of being in the presence of a great power. I have never experienced this before (spiritual dud, like I said). It was very brief and I can't even call the sensation to mind now. But I had this sudden understanding that this was not a presence to petition for things like love, or finance, or good luck...only out-and-out protection. Like having a huge shining army. There is no other word for it, it was - awesome.

Today on my way home, I found a church with a statue of St Jude where I can burn a novena candle. It is ten minutes away from where I live and I never knew about it. This could all be coincidence but I will keep praying, as well as observing like you suggested. I will look into the products too. Thanks.
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Giving Thanks to Archangels, Angels, and Saints!

Unread postby StExpedite » Tue Mar 16, 2010 8:03 pm

Giving Thanks to Archangels, Angels, and Saints!

There a lot of threads regarding particular Saint. But since we have so many new people, I would like to cover as much as possible how to properly give thanks to Saints. On Lucky Mojo site there info about which Saint is patron of what area. But I did not find how to thank them.

I know St Expedite supposed to be thank with pound cake and red wine. The red candle supposed to be lit on Tuesday. Pound cake sopped to be fed to birds or other small animals in park or left at some places, where wild creatures would have access.

St Marta supposed to be thank by wine. White candle supposed to be lit 9 Tuesdays.

How about all other Saints?

How to thank these Archangels and Saints? And what colour candle and when supposed to be lit for them?

Archangel Michael
Archangel Raphael
Archangel Gabriel

Saint Jude
Saint Joseph
Saint Cyprian
Saint Francis of Assisi

Your own personal Guardian Angel.
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Working with Spirits!

Unread postby StExpedite » Tue Mar 16, 2010 8:05 pm

Working with Spirits!

Mary wrote that you could ask your ancestors for healing relationship with family members and protection. How about if these people got reincarnated by now? Can you still reach their spirits? It is their soul, which got reincarnated. Conjure Man wrote this: “The key to working with spirits is finding a spirit who you can communicate with and who will either work on your behalf or you can control”

How you find this spirit, who would like you enough to work on my behalf? Control spirits I would not probably dare.

Spirits are beyond my realm.

Any suggestions?
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Re: Working with Spirits!

Unread postby starsinthesky7 » Tue Mar 16, 2010 8:09 pm

The easiest spirits sometimes are a person you had a connection with when they were alive. Most people like to work with their ancestors because these are safe spirits to work with, and they tend to have your best interests at heart. I would stick to working with ancestors, or a person you were close to when they were alive.

So how do you find them? I would look into your ancestors. Sometimes these people will come to you in your dreams or you will be drawn to them. For example, my grandfather always comes to me in my dreams, and that is the one person I know can help me.

As for other spirits, do not work with spirits until you are educated enough to do so.

Do not simply work with a spirit that is not an ancestor, because someone else is.
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Re: Working with Spirits!

Unread postby jwmcclin » Tue Mar 16, 2010 8:13 pm

That may be true StExpedite. When working with spirits you must be careful (very). First, make sure they are working for you and not the other way around. When working with a spirit that will do as you ask...there are certain characteristics that you look for. Search the forum to find your answer. There is a ritual, I find it helpful to know something about the particular grave. How the person died...e.g.,
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Re: Giving Thanks to Archangels, Angels, and Saints!

Unread postby starsinthesky7 » Tue Mar 16, 2010 8:20 pm

St. Expedite is lit on a Wednesday. That is day o the week.

St Martha the dominator does not have an official thank you per se, but I thank her with coffee, or wine...I also spread her name. She uses a red light, and her day is on Tuesday.

Archangel Michael is Red, and I light him on a Tuesday.
St. Joseph yellow light, and I light him on a Wednesday or Sunday.
St. Cyprian is a purple light on a Saturday.
St. Gabriel is a yellow, and i would light him on Wednesday (day of communciation)
St Raphael is blue, and since he is for healing I would probably work in him on monday.
St francis of Assisi is blue...depends what I would be working with him for since he has a few different things he can help me with
Guardian Angel...white...unless they communicate to me a certain color and day.

You can find their candles on lucky mojo candles page. If you cannot find their particular day or color of light default to a white light and light it on Sunday.

Here's the info page for
http://www.luckymojo.com/saintjude.html

The magical power of saints is a great book... along with Helping yourself with selected prayer vol 1. I know the first book is sold on the lucky mojo site.

http://www.luckymojo.com/archangelgabriel.html
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Re: GIVING THANKS TO ARCHANGELES, ANGELES AND SAINTS!

Unread postby jwmcclin » Tue Mar 16, 2010 8:20 pm

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Re: Giving Thanks to Archangels, Angels, and Saints!

Unread postby Devi Spring » Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:08 pm

A white candle with 7-11 Holy Oil or All Saints oil on it would be good if you cannot think of any other form of payment specific to them.
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Re: Working with Spirits!

Unread postby Devi Spring » Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:11 pm

Also a very important aspect of spirit work is developing your intuitive/psychic-perception skills, finding the way in which you most easily and skillfully perceive and interact with the spiritual realm. For some it may be through "seeing", like clairvoyance. For others it may be "knowing" or claircognizance and clairsentience. For others it may be through a medium such as the pendulum or scrying. Or a combination of the above.

If you can't consciously sense the spirit realms and interact with them in SOME fashion, then you are at an extreme disadvantage in spirit work. Until you find some way to have reliable two-way communication between yourself and the spirit realms, then I caution against trying to do much spirit-work beyond petitioning saints and archangels, and working with your ancestors.

There are many different ways of developing one's psychic senses, each one suited to different temperments. So asking how one person does it may not provide you with the answers for how you will do it. But learning some form of meditation and working on improving your concentration skills is always a very good place to start.
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Re: Giving Thanks to Archangels, Angels, and Saints!

Unread postby ConjureMan Ali » Tue Mar 16, 2010 11:50 pm

Not every saint has a standard form of payment and often a candle lit in thanks and their honor is payment enough.

When working with saints and angels see if you can perceive what they want as payment. Sometimes you will get distinct impressions that they want you to do certain things like spread their name, give them flowers, donate to a charity.

If nothing else a candle is a great way of saying thank you.
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Re: Working with Spirits!

Unread postby ConjureMan Ali » Tue Mar 16, 2010 11:56 pm

You want to develop your ability to perceive the spirits and their communications. This is an important beginning step.

Traditionally, people work with different types of spirits for different forms of work. Some say that the easiest spirits that will work for you are those of children or babies, others prefer working with people they knew and loved while they were alive. The idea is that these people already have a bond with you and you'll be able to percieve and work with them best. Conversely they will also be more likely to work with you.

There is also a history of working with the wrongfully killed, murderers and others for justice and revenge work.

If you haven't had a spirit call out to you then go into a graveyard with your payment and simply walk around while you attempt to call out to the spirits and tell them what you seek from them. Tell them of the work you wish to perform, or that you want to build a relationship. See if you can perceive any of them responding to your call. If you are drawn to any one grave then try to contact them, ask for their aid, and purchase their dirt when you get the go-ahead.
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Re: Giving Thanks to Archangels, Angels, and Saints!

Unread postby pcheri » Mon Mar 22, 2010 6:17 pm

ConjureMan wrote:

When working with saints and angels see if you can perceive what they want as payment. Sometimes you will get distinct impressions that they want you to do certain things like spread their name, give them flowers, donate to a charity.


when you say perceive, do you mean that there are some signs that let you know what they would like to receive? Or is it more of a feeling you will have?

Also, how do you know that a saint is hearing your petition or working on it? Are there any signs?

Thanks a lot for clearing my doubts,
p.
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Re: Giving Thanks to Archangels, Angels, and Saints!

Unread postby ConjureMan Ali » Mon Mar 22, 2010 6:21 pm

People perceive things differently, some see spirits and energies, some hear them, some feel them-it is really contingent upon that person.

There are times when spirits and saints may communicate through signs and other occurrances. I recommend that you call out to the spirit, saint, or angel of your choice and speak your petition. Then afterward just listen. See if you can perceive anything in return.

As to how do you know if they hear you? You must have faith ;-). And the results will speak for themselves. Either they work on your behalf or they don't.

Good luck.
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Re: Giving Thanks to Archangels, Angels, and Saints!

Unread postby jwmcclin » Mon Mar 22, 2010 8:05 pm

I agree with ConjureMan, its a feeling you get. Trust and have faith and you will get it.
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Work with both St. Martha and St. Expedite?

Unread postby nemesis » Tue Mar 23, 2010 4:32 pm

I like to know if its alrite to petition St Martha and St Expedite on the same petition and at the same time? Or should I ask each saints permission first and how to go about doing that?

Please kindly advise. Many thanks. x
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Re: Work with both St. Martha and St. Expedite?

Unread postby Devi Spring » Tue Mar 23, 2010 5:06 pm

I would do a divination to find out if working with both would be advised for this work.

Use a pendulum to get yes/no answers, or use tarot to get a reading on it - of course if you are skilled at a different form of divination than use it instead.
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Re: Work with both St. Martha and St. Expedite?

Unread postby jwmcclin » Tue Mar 23, 2010 8:54 pm

I agree with Devi; each Saint represent different requirements.
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Re: Jealous Spirits?

Unread postby sparkel81 » Tue May 04, 2010 10:37 am

ok thank u
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Can one work w/ multiple saints at once? do the saints mind?

Unread postby Beach » Sun May 09, 2010 7:06 am

Hi, Do saints get jealous or territorial? I guess they wouldn't or they wouldn't be saints. :)

But, I am working with 4 at the same time and am wondering if I am creating any issues.
1. St. Martha to help with an ex.
2. St. Expedite to speed it up
a couple days later, I went to:
3. St. Anthony because he's my family's saint and I've been praying to him for a few years now and also
4. St. Jude because I've been praying to him since childhood.

I just feel significantly less connected now to St. Martha after going to St Anthony and St Jude but I went to them because I already had relationships with them.

Could she be offended or do they all work happily together? any issues here? or is it just in my mind?

Thanks...
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Re: Can one work w/ multiple saints at once? do the saints mind?

Unread postby Devi Spring » Sun May 09, 2010 8:06 am

Some folk saints can be jealous. The way in which some saints work may not blend well with the way another saint works. Divination can help you determine if a saint is right for a certain job, and if other saints can work together on a case well or not.
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Re: Can one work w/ multiple saints at once? do the saints mind?

Unread postby Joseph Magnuson » Sun May 09, 2010 9:34 am

I suggest:

Magical Power of the Saints: Evocation & Candle Rituals by Reverend Ray T. Malbrough
Originally published in 1998; this is the original edition.
The best modern occult book on New Orleans style Catholic-Spiritualist work, in which prayers and petitions for luck, love, and other conditions are addressed to the Saints through candle rituals. Contains a wealth of illustrated information on the subject.
227 pages, trade paperback.

$11.95
BOO-GRI-MPOS
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Re: Can one work w/ multiple saints at once? do the saints mind?

Unread postby jwmcclin » Sun May 09, 2010 10:14 am

I have found what Devi mentoned to be true...and I respect the saint's request. Beach, I work with each of the saints you mentioned but keep them in separate rooms.
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Re: Can one work w/ multiple saints at once? do the saints mind?

Unread postby chy clayton s » Sun May 09, 2010 11:08 am

I maintain an All Saints altar, very similar to my ancestor altar, where I honor various saints on their given week days, and specific saints on their feast days. Then, if I want to use a Saint for a work in progress, I move it's statue, diptych, or card to the altar for that work.
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Re: Can one work w/ multiple saints at once? do the saints mind?

Unread postby jwmcclin » Sun May 09, 2010 12:08 pm

I like that idea chy clayton s...
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Re: Can one work w/ multiple saints at once? do the saints mind?

Unread postby Beach » Sun May 09, 2010 1:07 pm

I do as well but what do you suggest for when you want to call upon more than one saint for the same work?

I had all four saints on the same altar because it was all for the same work. I have them all separated now as jwmcclin suggested but I am still asking each saint to help me towards the same goal. Also, they must all realize I'm still asking each one for the same thing, even if separated right?
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Re: Can one work w/ multiple saints at once? do the saints mind?

Unread postby jwmcclin » Sun May 09, 2010 1:48 pm

...that's why I place my Saints in different rooms and probably why chy clayton s places each Saint separately on the altar (if I am understanding the post correctly)...
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Re: Can one work w/ multiple saints at once? do the saints mind?

Unread postby ConjureMan Ali » Sun May 09, 2010 9:29 pm

Saints, like other spiritual beings, have their own personalities and preferences. Some don't like sharing altars, some don't like working with others, and some are fine with it. It isn't necessarily a matter of jealousy, but rather some saints are demanding in the faith they require of those who petition them. They want the petitioner to have enough faith that they don't need to go to a dozen saints. Then there is also the matter of individual experience. People will have different experiences with different saints. For example I know one very talented Catholic rootworker who cannot work with Saint Martha and Saint Peter on the same issue. She has to do a divination to see which saint will be willing to aid in that instance. I know yet another who works with both and they even share an altar. So do your divinations and see what you discover.

Also, Malbrough's book is a great introduction to Saint veneration and their role in folk-magick, but approach it with the understanding that Malbrough has a slighly different approach and definition to some of the things than LM and others do here. For example he uses candles like DUME and Black Arts products in reconciliation work, but among rootworkers like myself, or other members of the forum, DUME is a death spell, and Black Arts is used in work spirits of a more volatile nature. Keep in mind the differences and you'll find it a great book.
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Re: Can one work w/ multiple saints at once? do the saints mind?

Unread postby Beach » Mon May 10, 2010 2:40 am

Thanks everyone for the info and education. I'm going to try to check out that book but in the meantime...

I got up this morning to find my St. Anthony candle burning quite hot & high, so much so that it's leaving soot at the top of the vigil glass. not a lot, but a little. But the others are burning calmly, cleanly & smoothly.

My question - (1) are saint candles subject to the same divination as "purpose" candles, ie like Love Me, Come to Me, meaning that this soot means I'm going to have trouble or (2) if only St. Anthony seems to be running high and leaving sooty marks, may I have offended him? I put him in the living room while I left St. Jude on the altar (splitting them up as jwmcclin suggested). Maybe he feels that St. Jude got a place a preference or something?

thanks....
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Re: Can one work w/ multiple saints at once? do the saints mind?

Unread postby Beach » Mon May 10, 2010 2:47 am

quick addition to my post -

I switched St. Anthony & St. Jude putting St. Anthony now on the altar (in the kitchen) and St. Jude in the living room.

Within five minutes, St. Anthony's candle calmed down and they are both now burning calmly and normally. coincidence? wow... huh?
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Re: Can one work w/ multiple saints at once? do the saints mind?

Unread postby cognitivedissonance » Mon May 10, 2010 8:07 am

I've asked a priest this question for the "official Catholic" answer, actually. He said that there is no limit to the number of saints you can petition, although you always need to be careful to remember that God is the one you're asking the saint to intercede to on your behalf, not the saint himself. The saint doesn't actually have a big Santa Claus list of proposals to bring to God every morning, the saint is simply already in heaven, dedicated to serving God, and has no earthly distractions to keep them from praying with all their souls and with the wisdom to know what to pray for that being a heavenly saint gives them.

I don't know about the folk saints, though. I probably wouldn't test it with Santisme Muerte, St. Expedite, St. Maximon or St. Martha. You can be fairly safe to assume that Anthony, Jude, Christopher and Peter won't have any issues with sharing the load.

Of the saints I've worked with, my main three are St. Luke (patron of artists), St. Benedict (banisher of evil spirits and poison) and St. Michael. Of the three, St. Michael is the only one that has a weird set of personality quirks. He's an angel, and so it stands to figure that his mind doesn't quite work the same as ours. He likes a regular schedule, probably why he's so popular among soldiers and police. But he's also the patron of retailers, which is why I have his medal on hand all the time. If I wear his medal off the clock, I've found that I get really tense and my muscles get tired... he keeps me in soldier mode the whole time.

Luke and Benedict, meanwhile, don't seem to mind.

Does anybody know if the Miraculous Medal has any impact on saint work?
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Re: Can one work w/ multiple saints at once? do the saints mind?

Unread postby Devi Spring » Mon May 10, 2010 8:27 am

St Expedite and St. Martha are not folk saints - they are regular cannonized Catholic saints.
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Re: Can one work w/ multiple saints at once? do the saints mind?

Unread postby Mama Micki » Mon May 10, 2010 8:58 am

St. Martha is mentioned in the Bible as a friend of Jesus.
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Re: Can one work w/ multiple saints at once? do the saints mind?

Unread postby chy clayton s » Mon May 10, 2010 9:55 am

When I was a kid my grandmother always said "Saint Martin Called Expedite" as she was taught that was his full name.

I frequently use multiple Saints in one rootwork, but I pray to each one seperately with focus and intention, and I rewrite their prayer to mention the other Saints I am working with as well.

example off the top of my head:

Opening Prayer adapted from "The Morning Offering"

O Jesus, through the Immaculate Heart of Mary, I offer Thee my Prayers, works, joys and sufferings of this day and hour for all my intentions of Thy Sacred Heart, in union with the Holy Spirit, I thank you for standing before the Throne of the Father on my behalf, and I humbly beg you to call out the prayers of St. Anthony, St. Dymphna, and St. Jude this morning. It is with worship and adoration that I, with no right, do ask this favor Oh Lord, in the Name of the Father AND the Son AND the Holy Ghost. Amen.

Prayer to St. Michael the Archangel

ArchAngel Michael, who defends the innocent, stands by the righteous, and hunts the demons in this world, I come before you desperate and alone. I ask that you will stand beside Our Lord Jesus this morning and argue my case to the very Throne itself. I would ask only that my son, D , be given the strength and courage to fight his very personal demon of addiction today. And, on bended knee, I beg you to protect my son from himself today. In the name of the Father AND the Son AND the Holy Ghost. Amen.

Modified "Unfailing Prayer to St Anthony"

O holy St Anthony, gentlest of Saints, your love for God and Charity for his creatures, made you worthy, when on earth, to possess miraculous powers. Miracles waited on your word, which you were ever ready to speak for those in trouble or anxiety. Encouraged by this thought, I implore of you to stand beside St. Jude and St. Dymphna this morning and and pray for my son, D , that his mind be calm and his cravings be muted, that today he can walk with the Lord. And I ask you to whisper guidance to him as you once whispered to the Sweet Infant Jesus, that he might know which path to take to bring him closer to Jesus and stronger in Faith, that one day his addiction will only be a memory best forgotten. The answer to my prayer may require a miracle, even so, you are the Saint of Miracles, only whisper my petition before the throne and the gratitude of my heart will be forever yours. In the name of the Father AND the Son AND the Holy Ghost. Amen.

Modified "Prayer to Saint Dymphna"

Oh Pure and youthful Martyr, who knows the price of obsession and addiction, I stand before you and beg, with tears unshed for grief, I beg that you will pray beside St Anthony and St Jude this morning for my son, D. I am filled of fear for him and ask that you intercede on his behalf, that his demon may be cast off and his mind may be calm. Please fill him with hope, and grant him the relief and cure he so desires. I ask this through Jesus Christ our Lord who suffered in the garden, Amen.

Modified "Prayer to St Jude"

St Jude, Patron of those things despaired of; pray for me, that I may receive the succour of Heaven in my necessities, and please stand strong with St Anthony and St Dymphna this morning and pray for my son, D , that he may walk away from his past and become as a new man with the strength of Faith. I beg you to intercede this day, and I pray for your guidance in this most desperate matter, In the name of the Father AND the Son AND the Holy Ghost. Amen.
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Re: Can one work w/ multiple saints at once? do the saints mind?

Unread postby ConjureMan Ali » Mon May 10, 2010 1:19 pm

chy clayton s wrote:I frequently use multiple Saints in one rootwork, .


While I'm sure Chy Clayton did not mean to imply this particular impression I thought it best to clear up the word, "use" and the position of saints in Conjure.

Firstly, one does not "use" saints, but rather they are petitioned to come to the aid of the petitioner. The reason one should make a point about this is because there seems to be a prevalant idea that saints are "used" in rootwork, "used" to boost up your work. That is not the case.

Rootwork is part of African-American, Protestant Christianity and as such you don't see that many saints worked with in rootwork. Those that do work with saints come from a Catholic background. The saints belong in this background and shouldn't be removed from it. So for those members who aren't familiar with saint work, try to understand that saints aren't just people you run up to and start demanding what you want, nor are they a cornerstone of conjure, hoodoo, or rootwork, but rather they are part of their own Catholic tradition that some have chosen to adopt.

If you chose to work with saints, wonderful-approach them with respect, give them offerings, build up a relationship with them, one based off of faith and remember their context in the Catholic tradition as cognitivedissonance pointed out.
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Re: Can one work w/ multiple saints at once? do the saints mind?

Unread postby cognitivedissonance » Mon May 10, 2010 1:35 pm

In 1962, the official status of "saint" was yanked from Martha, Expedite and Christopher, as well as hundreds of lesser known saints. This doesn't mean the church forbids praying to them for intercession, merely that they are not up to the standards of canonization laid out in Vatican II. The rules for who is and who isn't an "official" saint are ludicrously arcane, the most famous of which are that each saint must have a verifiable minimum of three miracles during their lifetime (post-mortem seems to be an issue but not as vital to the canonization process) and unimpeachable orthodoxy according to the canon law.

Expedite and Christopher are not "official" saints (their historicity is in doubt) and Martha has some problems with the miracle count. Less popular saints got the axe as well.

HOWEVER, there IS flexibility on the parish level, as long as universal orthodoxy is maintained. It's a matter of the Vatican legislating and the bishops executing. Not many bishops are executing the saint cull, especially with the "popular" saints like Expedite and Christopher.

The long story short: The "official" Catholic hierarchy doesn't recognize some saints that are popularly revered, but that doesn't make them any less worthy of veneration. In absolute strict circumstances where everybody is doing their job correctly, you couldn't be baptized with the Christian name "Christopher" anymore (despite "Christ" being in the freakin name!). Good luck finding the priest that much of a stickler to enforce it.*

((I'm not calling out Martha, she's one of those saints the church doesn't know what to do with. Yes, she was in the Bible, but her presentation is not exactly flattering depending on the translation you're reading. She'd probably like that. Mary Magdalene gets better praise than she does.))




*A fun one to bring up is St. Thomas More, the patron saint of lawyers and politicians, and therefore very useful to use in a court case. He was added a few decades ago. He's DEFINITELY not popular among Irish and Irish-Americans due to his lifetime stance of being pro-British conquest. Good luck finding an Irish priest who will bless his medal, even better luck getting St. Brigid or St. Patrick to sign on to assist him.
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Re: Can one work w/ multiple saints at once? do the saints mind?

Unread postby chy clayton s » Mon May 10, 2010 4:00 pm

Good catch, ConjureMan, that was bad english on my part.

Like I said earlier - I have an All Saints altar dedicated to my veneration of the Saints. I am non-Orthodox Copt and not traditional Catholic and my husband is an Anglican Priest - so Saint work is a pretty big part of my life and magic.

When I was a teenager and just breaking with my Romani family, I found a St Anthony statue on the side of the road, he was my only Saint for over a decade.

Anyone starting new to Saint work, start with one and write a personalized prayer for morning and evening. Add in petitions as needed. Give it time until you can feel the mood of the Saint when you approach the altar. Then add a new Saint. My grandmother used to say "Patience is a virtue the Saints appreciate."
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What do I do with the glass of water next to St. Expedite?

Unread postby AmaSarah » Fri May 14, 2010 2:09 am

Hi, I burned a St. Expedite candle but didn't receive my wish in the time the candle burned down. I now have that glass of water next to the burned out candle.

My questions:
1. If I didnt receive my wish within the burn time, do I take this to mean my wish will not be granted? or do I give it time? how much time?

I ask because,
2. what do I do with the glass of water if my wish is not granted? throw it in a crossroad?

thanks...
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Re: What do I do with the glass of water next to St. Expedite?

Unread postby Devi Spring » Fri May 14, 2010 8:31 am

With St.Expedite it's always a good idea to give him a deadline. If your petition is granted by the deadline, then you know he worked for you - if it didn't, he didn't. He doesn't work by the burn time of a candle.

Yes, you can just throw the water at a crossroads at the finish.
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Re: What do I do with the glass of water next to St. Expedite?

Unread postby AmaSarah » Fri May 14, 2010 9:09 am

Thanks, Devi. but since I didnt give a deadline, do I reburn a new candle but this time stating a definite deadline or do I go back now, to the empty vigil candle and state it now?

thanks...
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