Deities, Angels, Spirits, Saints: Questions about Techniques

[niteraptor]

I haven't found what I was looking for, so here goes. yes i am squeamish so i want to understand this TOTALLY.

1) Would a cat's ashes count as graveyard earth? My first kitty is still in his statue urn.

I live on Cemetery Hill. It was first a native and now the town cemetery. As far as my older neighbors say there were stone piles up and down all over here that were possibly graves. The stones were taken for buildings. My house has a such a laid stone foundation and dates from 1880. Although the actual foundation is a different size and shape then the current house.

The grave yard is HUGE with walkways and a chapel like a mini town. its also still in use, receiving a solider from Afghanistan just a while ago. This is not my town originally so I have no relatives up there.

2) What would the appropriate way to pay for earth that is native as well as new occupied and use it for protection?

3) I know soldiers graves are mentioned but should I pick one from a older war?

4) How would I tell if my house was part of the original native burying ground and would it be appropriate to invoke protection from the spirits rather then a deceased Anglo spirits since this was a contested area and in sight of my house is a massacre site?

5) If I want to lay something to ground at a cross roads would like a hot foot bottle be better at the cross roads up there -- or should i stick to only positive things there?

I cant go burying things in the gas and git parking lot at midnight, they might think I was weird, lol. I also know where there are several private cemeteries to past farm families. And I know where the state veterans graveyard is. its feels very pristine and dead there tho, whereas the one behind my house i swear i see people walking around when i don't look directly at them.

6) What is root work's take on speaking to relatives or working with deceased family?

7) Is there something I should be doing to either honor or welcome deceased family members?

I feel that since i was taught SOME of this and my aunt is gone, i should look into it deeper.

[RedRose]

Sounds strange but is it possible to attract helpful spirits to follow you?

[Miss Tammie Lee]

Belief and Focus.

[cabriellenil]

I put a glass of water with a bit of florida water in it underneath my bed when I'm sleeping.

[Miss Tammie Lee]

Cabriellenil-- GREAT POST!

[ConjureMan]

Leave out a bowl filled with Althaea leaves. Burning Althaea leaves on a charcoal disk with Frankincense and Myrrh is also a great way of attracting the aid of benevolent spirits.

[cognitivedissonance]

HHRM suggests a pan full of blueing water.

[catherineyronwode]

Althaea is great for this. Some folks also like Angelica.

Water -- plain or blue -- attracts spirits as well.

You can also bring home the graveyard dirt of helpful spirits and sprinkle it around the doorway or place it on an altar.

[path2success]

Is it ok to add LM Psychic Vision oil and florida water in a bowl of water and keep it at the altar?

If yes, do we need to refill the bowl of water everyday?

[catherineyronwode]

Yes, path2success -- Psychic Vision Oil is compounded of several of the herbs mentioned (and a couple others) and makes a good scent-blend with any Cologne.

http://luckymojo.com/products-psychic-vision.html

I think Kananga Water Cologne would also be a good choice for the cologne, as it is used for ceremonies of the dead, who are a kind of spirit too.

And, lest we forget there is a ready-made herbal blend for such work called Nine Herb Bath -- it is comprised of nine herbs reputed to be efficacious in spiritual and psychic works.

We also make Spirit Guide Oil.

http://luckymojo.com/products-spirit-guide.html

And, with an entirely different recipe, we make Indian Spirit Guide.

http://luckymojo.com/products-indian-spirit-guide.html

These last two oils come out of the Spiritual Church Movement. Any two or three of the oils may be blended, of course, or you may, if you are performing a specific sort of work with spirits of the deceased, blend in Blessing Oil

http://luckymojo.com/products-blessing.html

Tranquility Oil,

http://luckymojo.com/products-tranquility.html

or Clarity Oil.

http://luckymojo.com/products-clarity.html

All you need is just a drop of the Lucky Mojo Oil and a drop of the cologne into the water, or you will have a high-scented blend that may "take over" your space. You want to keep it subtle.

You can replace the water daily; some folks do this every three days. It depends on your schedule, your dedication to the spirits, and so forth.

[catherineyronwode]

1) Sure.

2) It is best NOT to disturb the graves of Native Americans unless you know the customs of their tribe. The differences between cultures and their attitudes toward graves is covered in the course i teach. You could take the course or you could schedule a one-hour session of magical coaching and i could teach you this one-on-one.

3) You should be spirit led; this is not "picking" a grave -- it is not like hiring a day-labourer -- they have to select you as well. You will not understand this until you try it.

4) Do a divination.

5) It completely depends on the spell and your intention. You need more experience and i cannot give it to you on the forum. You may want to take my course. There are 6 chapters on working in the graveyard.

6) Give it a try; if you are gifted for it, it will become quite natural to you.

7) The choice of whether or not to make an ancestor altar is entirely personal. Many people do, but the form these altars take is diverse and personal. Schedule a session of magical coaching with two or three workers from AIRR and each will tell you something personal to them. I will tell you every way i know, however, which is the way i teach, and i can do this in a one hour magical coaching session. Be prepared to take notes.

You do realize, i hope, that you are not using this forum the way it is intended to be used.

Imagine for a moment that you walked into a small boutique clothing store and just started hammering on the owner for replies to questions that had nothing to do with the merchandise in the shop, just came in and started asking her questions about the history of fashion, and asking what kinds of clothes might look best on you, and asking what kinds of clothes she liked best. She could give you maybe three minutes at the most. But she would have work to do -- stocking her racks, helping her customers, answering the telephone -- and then she'd have to politely disengage. So you got your three minutes, and that is all i can spare.

[niteraptor]

thank you and i will look into your classes,

[path2success]

Thank you so much Miss Cat for the detailed explanation!

[brujobori123]

I totally agree with Devi martin coleman book is great as it gives a detailed step by step of communicating with spirits you would greatly benefit from this book well good luck

[tboy1977]

i've been reading that in a few posts around there and wondered what it means to "pay the saints" and how do you pay them?

[Devi Spring]

When you petition a saint for aid, if they come through for you it is traditional to thank them by making an offering. What offering you make to them depends greatly on what saint you petitioned, and what you may have promised them in return for their help, or what they may have asked for. It varies greatly from case to case. But flowers and a dressed candle burnt in their honor is common, as is making a donation in their name to a charitable organization that is associated with their patronage (for instance, donating to an animal shelter as payment to St. Francis).

LM has a wide range of condition products that you can use when working with and honoring the various saints:
http://www.luckymojo.com/mojocatoils.html#catholic
http://www.luckymojo.com/mojocatincense.html#catholic
http://www.luckymojo.com/mojocatcandles.html#catholic

7-11 Holy Oil is one of my favorites for working with saints: http://www.luckymojo.com/mojocatoils.html#special

[catherineyronwode]

We have a selection of books on Spiritualism in the shop, by the way. Go to

http://www.luckymojo.com/mojocatbooks.html#spiritualism

[loveliesbleeding]

Hello all,

I have been reading about Dr. Hernandez here and I have a card of this holy saint. I would like to bring him with me to my work to help me with the treatment of my patients. I work in intensive care and have many treatment modalities and equipment which makes an often immediate impact on people under my care and his influence in this sphere would greatly benefit them.

I was wondering however if laminating Dr. Hernandez' image would be disrespectful to him? I know that heat is involved and i wouldn't want to do anything that might upset the Saint, but i feel that i would need to protect his image before taking it with me as it might get soiled or warped if i carry it in my pocket just as is into my work environment.

Thanks in advance for your advice!

[Devi Spring]

Holy cards are just prints of pictures - it's how you use them that makes them sacred. Also, many holy cards are laminated, so there's certainly no rules against laminating them. I often laminate paper holy cards. Just laminate it, dress it with the appropriate oils, and pray over it - and then you have a very sturdy spirutual tool.

[Miss Tammie Lee]

Yes you can laminate!!! Especially if going from patient to patient because of infections in the hospitol and what you have to do on a daily basis in your profession. Your instict sterilization was accurate as was and is your intent.
Be Blessed in all that you do for others!!!

[Clarabella]

Can anyone tell me how to prepare and consecrate a saint's statue for my altar? I've read of various ways to do this, some of them as simple as applying holy water to the statue, others very complicated and involving a lot of procedures. I'm prepared to do any amount of work to properly prepare my statue, but I would like to be sure I'm doing what's appropriate. I have searched the forums and LM site but not found this specific information. Thank you.

[Devi Spring]

Just cleanse it in some way - holy water, smudging, etc, and then pray over it while anointing it with an appropriate oil. 7-11 Holy Oil is a nice all purpose one for consecration.

[catherineyronwode]

In addition to what Devi mentioned, here's a tip -- and this applies not only to Catholic Church saints but also to deity, animal spirit, and other stute representations:

If the statue is hollow at the base, or if you can carve out a small hollow, you can load it with herbs, roots, minerals, or other items sacred to, associated with, or evocative of the deity or saint or animal spirit whose statue you are preparing. If the being was ever a dweller on earth, then dirt from a place where he or she lived, graveyard dirt, cremation ashes, or dirt or a pebble from a temple or church erected to his or her veneration are also used in this way.

[Clarabella]

Thanks to both of you for replying; I'll do all that you've suggested.

[Maljen]

Just had to share this wonderful thing that happened to me earlier today!

I went to a local graveyard that was a favorite place of mine since well before I began learning Hoodoo. I went there to dispose of some break-up spell remains in the hopes that I'd find a hollowed tree/hole in a tree as I don't seem to have one nearby except for the one right behind my house, which for obvious reasons I was not about to use for this!

As soon as I pulled into the graveyard, my hair stood up, like I was standing to close to an electrical charge. That got me really excited, so I began asking for help finding the necessary tree. I felt and urge or pull to drive down one of the paths I rarely go down and as soon as I turned the corner, there directly in front of me was a tree with a fallen branch making a hole into the trunk! I honestly sat in my car and laughed with joy for a good two minutes before I got out and disposed of what I needed to take care of there. I spent my entire drive out giggling and thanking the spirits of the graveyard for their help.

Thank you Cat, and Lucky Mojo, and everyone at AIRR, for guiding me to Hoodoo, and to a whole new relationship with Spirits, the Divine, and the Unseen. Thank you, thank you, thank you!

[Miss Ida Lundin]

Thank you for sharing that Maljen,
that was a really nice story to read!
/ida

[starsinthesky7]

Thats great. I am glad that you are becoming more adept in Hoodoo. I like hearing great stories such as these.

[Miss Tammie Lee]

Wonderful Share Maljen and good luck in your work!

[Maljen]

Thanks everyone! It was such a wonderful affirmation on what was a difficult day......so it was nice to hear from the Spirits that they're still there, they know what's going on, and in a way they've 'got my back'.....that's what it felt like and what I heard in my head when I was in the graveyard. 'We've got your back'.......very comforting!

[wiccanbudgiemom]

I work with santisma muerte and ask her what she likes as offerings. she has been really good and understanding with me as I'm on a fixed income and have a time buying her stuff. I don't follow the traditional color for petitions when it comes to flowers. I just ask her and get what I can. She has lots of candy and cookies! When a neighbor gave me a box of cookies for Christmas, I felt a gentle nudge from santa muerte to put some of the cookies on her altar, so I knew she was watching and wanted some. I obliged with no problem.

[Miss Bri]

I want to make a quick distinction here that I think is important for the purposes of the forum and Hoodoo. We do not, typically speaking "pay" Saints. First off, many traditional workers are Protestant or work within a Protestant framework and do not petition Saints at all. But there are of course many workers who do and there are other traditions like Santeria or Voodoo that are often mixed with Hoodoo where Saints are petitioned. However, Saints are religious and holy figures--in most cases you cannot "pay" them to do work for you, you pray to them, petition them, and if they come through for you then you leave them offerings. The reason that this is important is because in traditional Hoodoo we DO pay spirits, especially spirits of the graveyard, to help us with certain workings. Their payment varies on what is being asked but it will almost always include actual money. Note, there are also Saints where one appropriate offering is money, like St. Martin Caballero, but it is not the same thing as payment. Hope that helps!
Blessings,
Bri

[ConjureMan]

Very important distinction. I am sure we have all used the term "pay" in reference to the saints, but it is best if we are conscious of our word choice.

Those Catholic worker who do petition saints ask for intercession, they do not hire the saints. This is readily apparent in the word choice of the petition itself, "Oh, Saint Anthony most miraculous of saints, please whisper in Sweet Infant Jesus' ear.." This is informed from Catholic theology and adopted into Catholic folk-practices. The saints are seen as more accessible than God and so they are petitioned to interceed on our behalf. When the saints are able to come through-- when they intercede then an offering of thanks is given. This is deeply spiritual relationship, based off of the miraculous nature of the saints.

On the other hand, in hoodoo we work with spirits, like those of the grave. In this case they are quite literally hired to do a work for you. Like a worker they are paid and then employed to carry out a specific function. One does not hire a saint.

As an interesting side note, the concept of intercession is also found in African magical practices and the Afro-Diasporic traditions where the messenger deity (often the crossroads deity), is petitioned to interceede on behalf of the requester by changing the messages he carries between the gods and therefore altering fate.

[Jacob Zuma]

Not so certain if this is in order to ask here.

My late 'grandfather' was a famouse root doctor. When I was around 30 years old I opened up to him and wanted him to assist me with his powers. That same night he appeared to me in my bedroom. We had a chat. I never told anyone about it. The relationship continued until 2006. After that he just dissapeared. I can no longer feel him. I then went to my father's grave and spoke to him. I had some challenges of life then. After being on my father's grave the challenges eased up. Only to come back later. I continued going to my father's grave and things will ease up only to come back until going to his grave became a futile exercise.

Now, I am looking for roots or herbs or oils or anything that any of you can recommend for raising the spirit of the dead. I am refering to the actual physical raising and communicating with the spirit of the dead, just like my first encounter with my grandfather wherein we had a physical talk, not a dream or talking to a shade.

Anyone out there?

[ConjureMan]

You might want to start out with a reading to find out why the communication has lapsed. There could be a variety of reasons. This will help you, especially if there is a reason why your granfather has remained silent.

Acacia and Althaea are great herbs for communication with friendly spirits. You might want to look into Spirit Guide oil as well.

Good luck.

[ConjureMan]

In conjure we strongly believe that the dead can and do remain a regular part of our lives who are as real as our neighbors. Now, it is true that not everyone is suited for this type of work and there are certain risks when it comes to working with the spirits of the dead, but they are very much part of the world we live in.

In conjure and hoodoo there isn't a dichotomy between the "spirit world" and "this" world. Instead we see things as interconnected in such a fundamental level that the physical and the spirit are integral to one another. Take for example the physical rose and the spirit of the Rose. Spirit within form.

Similarly the dead do not reside in another distant plane, but rather they reside close to home. It simply takes the skill to listen and learn. We dream of our dearly departed, they guide us, we petition them, and in a variety of ways they remained linked to us and very much alive.

Can everyone work with spirits of the dead, no. It is a skill that you need to have and develop. That said, if they were so distant and removed then we wouldn't be working with these spirits on such important matters. We turn to them because they still are able to effect this world.

Just my two cents.

[suzyparker]

Working with the dead requires a lot of patience, time and energy but is very rewarding. Some suggestions.. why not set up an altar for the deceased person you are trying to contact. you can put a picture of the person on it (if you have one), some of their graveyard dirt, a small bowl of water. I also would recommend a white candle that has been annointed with LM 7-11 Holy Oil and I would suggest using any of LM's spirit guide products (oil, incense, etc). There are also herbs (althea, wormwood, acacia, star anise) that you can burn. Don't be discouraged if you are only able to make contact through visions and/or dreams, sometimes that is how the dead choose to reach us. Send lots of love and pray a lot when doing this. Good luck.

[catherineyronwode]

Jacob Zuma, do you have an altar-space for the spirits of the dead whom you wish to contact (photos, graveyard dirt, favourite items, foods, flowers, etc.? If you do not, you may wish to start with these simple ways of encouraging contact.

ConjureMan Ali, that was an excellent post. You have a good, level head. Thanks.

I have edited this thread about communication with spirits of the dead, especially the spirits of ancestors, in order to remove distracting polemics and personal opinions. I have also merged it with the ongoing thread that deals with ways to communicate and work with a wider variety of spirits, deities, saints.

[BerthaB]

Hi! I really need to know how I should Thank Saint Martin Caballero and Saint Michael for work they have done for me?
I also wanted to know if it was ok to place candies/sweets on their altars?

[Miss Tammie Lee]

Read this thread BerthaB:
what-does-it-mean-to-"pay-the-saints"--t9160.html

[jwmcclin]

Read further about Saint Martin Caballero and Archangel Michael. Good advise Triplethreat.

[Michael B]

Seeing this thread, I'm now wondering about planetary influences. I haven't found a reference to it yet anywhere, but is it also customary to thank or pay the planets - Jupiter, in my case ?

Thanks !

Michael

[Turnsteel]

Seeing this thread, I'm now wondering about planetary influences. I haven't found a reference to it yet anywhere, but is it also customary to thank or pay the planets - Jupiter, in my case ?

Thanks !

Michael

Not as such,no. If you call up the archangel of Jupiter that might be different.

[catherineyronwode]

I would say that if you call upon the planets in their classical forms as Greek/Roman/Norse deities -- e.g. Moon/Luna/Diana/Artemis -- then you should indeed offer them thanks.

If you view the planets as Jewish Arechangels / Chricistian saints, then you would indicate thanks-offerings be made to those entities.

[Joseph Magnuson]

I would say that if you call upon the planets in their classical forms as Greek/Roman/Norse deities -- e.g. Moon/Luna/Diana/Artemis -- then you should indeed offer them thanks.

If you view the planets as Jewish Arechangels / Chricistian saints, then you would indicate thanks-offerings be made to those entities.

Thank you for this quick(but thorough) answer! I have learned more about working with the planets in the last week than I have for years! Great thread/post...

-Joseph M

[Dr Johannes]

Building a church or a chapel in their name would be a proper way to thank them.
If you are a bad cook, allergic to flowers or too shy to publish your thanks the good old pilgrimage is also a nice way of thanking a Saint.
Look up a church or alike bearing their name in your area or the world and walk to it. Once there you give a threefold sum to charity, thank the saint and go home.

/Johannes

[Conjuremoon]

This isn't a conjure idea. But it is a good idea for people in tight spaces. I live in a small apt. with little to no room. I have a small altar and on different days or depending on the work , I set it up for different things. Tuesday is for St. Martha. I couldn't buy 10 saint statues and have no room for them. So a good idea was to go to the local dollar store. I bought small little ornate metal frames. They were $1 each. Then I printed out SAint pics from the internet and framed them. Then I purchased all purpose white little votives. I use my Lucky Mojo Special #20 oil to annoint the candle. And for my Saint petitions I put their framed picture on the altar with a white annointed votive in front of it. I have on for each st.!!

(There have always been a number of Catholic or Spiritualist conjures who work with saints, so, yeah, this is on topic. A good idea, too. -- Miss Michaele)

[jwmcclin]

Timely information, this question has been asked several times on the forum and your post provides valuable information to those with small spaces.

[Devi Spring]

I do something very similar myself - using frames rather than statues for most saints that I work with. I will usually only invest in a statue if it's a saint that has worked with me successfully several times and who I know I will continue to work with often in the future. I also have some space issues.

[Conjuremoon]

Thank you so much guys for your support. I always like to look for creative not too expensive ways to do the work. I may also glue little rhinestones (not too tacky though) maybe like green & purple for St. Martha or glue little flowers around them.

[ConjureMan]

Catholicism's influence has always been a regional influence with saint work being relatively new to conjure but in today's growing interest in the saints this is a very helpful suggestion for those who wish to partake in the phenomenon but have little space.

I would however recommend lucky mojo's prayer cards and prints for the saint. They would be a great thing to place in a frame.

[starsinthesky7]

I like your idea! I know some people who decorate and make their own frames out of nice card stock paper or construction paper with symbols that are associated with the saint. They decorate with glitter and such. Wonderful Idea which I think shows more of wanting to build a relationship to the saint especially as a thank you. In addition, rather than by a large statue lucky mojo sells small car statues that I have bought as they help to conserve issue. They are like small 4 to 6 inch statues if you have space issues on an altar. But I like your idea, and thank you for sharing!

http://www.luckymojo.com/mojocatstatuary.html

[Done1]

Hey folks..Ok I havnt seen many answers to the questions I'm about to ask,but I figured why not. Ok, now when working with the saints, what do you do when they dont answer your prayers after the candles have burned out? Do you keep on praying by repeating the whole prayer and paying them their dues ,or do you with hold paymen (Like Saint expedite expects pound cake and flowers). Also, how do you pay these Saints the proper homage on their specific days? (like Saint Jude is Sunday I believe). Now lastly, what exactly is a Novena, and how do you do them properly?? This may sound like nonsense to some but i feel this serious need to clarify all this. Please list as much info as possible... thank you.

[starsinthesky7]

1. No, you would not pay them if they do not answer your prayers, and I would not keep petitioning them about it. It really depends on A) on the circumstances of your situation B)how much time has passed, and C)I would get a reading to see if they are working on your behalf, and how the candle burned. Now if the candle burned clean, and a reading and/or you see signs they are working on your behalf, then you can keep petitioning them.

Now in the case of Saint Expedite, some petitions state when this candle burns out...some of his other prayers are not as clear. So I like to state Saint Expedite please help me within my needs within two weeks. This way if your petition so happens to come true then you arent stuck in a situation of should you pay saint expedite. But really a reading can clarify to see if they are helping and if you should continue to keep petitioning, but if they are not you dont have to pay them.

2. Well, I was taught that some saints work better for you and on your behalf when you give them the payment after. Some saints have former payments like Saint expedite with pound cake, flower, and spreading his name. Saint Jude likes for his payments in the forum of publishing where a lot of people are going to see such as a newspaper, magazine, website, etc. Now if you are going to work with a folk saint such as Dr. Jose Hernandez who helps with healing, and health problems you can make a donation to a hospital. There are some saints I have learned do better when you give them an offering first before you work with them. But if they dont have a formal payment like saint expedite or saint jude then you can simply donate towards a charity that they are the patron of. For example, Archangel Michael does not have a formal payment but he is a very protective saint, and he is the patron saint of policemen so I would donate to perhaps a police department or a hospital or church in his name. I mean you can promise them whatever you want to give them, but just make sure you come through. Some people state a simple thank you even through this forum in the testimonial section, and I have given Saint Martha and other saints their own statue to thank them. So I highly advise that you do your research when it comes to saints as some have formal payments that are specific and others do not, but you should still thank them.

A novena is a prayer that is said over nine days....novena means 9 day prayer in spanish. Typically, you say the prayer for 9 days some people knock on the altar while calling out the name of the saint, and close with an Amen. There are some more formal typical prayers, and then there are prayers that come from the heart, or that others have written.

I think a GREAT resource when it comes to saints is the book

The Magical Power of the Saints: Evocation and Candle Rituals
By Ray T. Malbrough


It is sold through lucky mojo, and is a very well known book.

For the most part, I like to say their prayer on their particular day of the week, and offer them a dish of water next to their candle along with their picture or prayer card. And depending upon who I am working with I will give them an offering beforehand.

Here are a few good pages
http://www.luckymojo.com/patronsaints.html

You can go on this page and click on the various saints pages. You can see saints have more than one kind of prayer.

You can also go on google and see various novena and/or prayers. There is a wealth of info but I would start with the book I mentioned above

http://www.readersandrootworkers.org/in ... _Tradition

This is a great page as well on the various saints that are frequently worked with.

In addition, if there is a particular saint you want to work with then you can ask the help of an AIRR worker to help you and guide you. Off the top of my head, Miss Bri, Momma Starr (she has a course where she will spend time to teach you about saints...I highly advise taking it!),Dr. E, Karma Zain, and I am sure there are a few more which you can look up on the AIRR page.

Hope this helps!

[aura]

Hi Stars,

that book will definitely be on my next order

in the past I've only ever prayed and had shrines to saints (...being an avid collector of Catholic Statuary which was really popular in the households of the province of Québec where I'm from - although that is neither here nor there...). So in petitionning saints, when you leave an offering of food or water: what do you do with the water, food and/or flowers once they've faded There are cartoon images of mouldy pound cake in my mind that are less than flattering to the said Saint having been so kind as to help LOL! Just throwing it out seems kind of rude to me...

Blessings and thank-you for elucidating

[Dr Johannes]

When thing go bad you remove them from the altar.
Some, like me, only leave it for 24 hours, 3 days or alike before they are removed and thrown away.


//Dr. Johannes

[starsinthesky7]

I agree with Johannes. I only leave them on the altar (depending on what it is) for only a certain period of time. Flowers I will remove after about a week and a half. Food I will leave for a day or two. Water and/drink offerings I will leave for the next time I pay tribute to them. I dispose of their offerings in my front yard, the water goes to a potted plant, or I will splash it around my front door step if it is a liquid. Some flowers I will work with and put them in spells geared towards the same purpose and/or where I have asked the saints assistance.

[Dr Johannes]

Besides offerings I think shrinebuilding and pilgrimages is an underestimated way of thanking a Saint as well. Including that as a promise when doing the votive petition might turn the tables if the Saint seems reluctant.

//Dr. Johannes

[aura]

Thank you both Johannes and Stars for your responses

Blessings

[Done1]

Starsinthesky, I actually own that book, and for some reason...I just cant see anywhere giving the advice you listed above. Thanks for all the info you've given and I'm certainly on it!

[Done1]

Thank you all for all the info given and time taken to provide me with so much info. Thank you!