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Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

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Nathaniel
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by Nathaniel » Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:11 pm

hi. could anyone give me their opinion of using visualization to improve and develop your psychic and spiritual gifts please? it is wildly believed that by imagining yourself as a very powerful rootworker and psychic that the "retuning" of the thought forces of the mind will help these desires to manifest?
It is helping me to "feel" the part and to even study more to gain this goal.
what do you think of this technique? how do you use visualization in your spiritual practices?



thanks all!

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Turnsteel
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by Turnsteel » Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:42 pm

Well, I'll say this, simply visualizing and wishing for something, nine and nine tenths out of ten, doesn't get you results. If your are going to get anything, be that skill as a rootworker, or a job, you have to go out and earn it. That said, visualization is not my strongest modality, which doesn't bother me much at all and certainly doesn't hamper my work.The idea that by just imagining really well will cause it to manifest in your life strikes me as rather, how to put this, new age. Rootworkers do not become great because they visualize and wish for it, they become great because they work with their gift.
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MysticRootworker
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by MysticRootworker » Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:15 am

Are you kinda working with the idea of "fake it til you make it"? I know that just visualizing for a spell or anything we wish alone probably wont bring it to us. I mean even working with the law of attraction teachings- both the new writings and the older ones still require the "emotion" behind it. But I do still believe that if we "see" ourselves in a certain way- whether it is for something we want to be or not, WILL effect us in some mannner. Good or bad. I think what you are doing can only Help you reach your goals. Ofcourse as HailDiscordia says we still have to do the "work". It's like the athletes who "see" themselves performing in the manner they desire Before actually doing the physical act. They swear that it improves their performance. But visualizing alone certainly wont help them bring in the big bucks! lol So why should it be any different for any other aspect of our lives? So go for it Nathaniel. I am comlpetely a novice just learning this wonderful way of life- so I can only give you my PERSONAL opinion.
Good Luck to you!

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Nathaniel
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by Nathaniel » Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:46 am

hi and thanks everyone. one thing that i immediately noticed about this forum is that UNlike most there is little to no EGO flying all over the place. No ONE person trying to rule over and dominate everything.

THANKS for helping, giving me advice and just being here for me. i am in the HooDoo course and to tell the truth i laid it to the side for awhile cause i had a bad habbit of going from book to book.But i am back studying the course again and a very BIG part of why that is is that now i have a lot of people who are on the path as i with this and in this forum. another VERY BIG thing that will hinder your studies is not having enough money to buy all the materials to work with in the first place. I agree, WORK has to be done to reach that goal but you need the materials to work with and you need the money to buy the materials lol

thanks!!

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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by CopperFox » Wed Jan 27, 2010 7:25 am

Nathaniel,

I agree, this forum has a wonderful community of people who really are very generous in sharing their knowledge. I am glad to hear you have resumed your studies. While some supplies are simply essential, hoodoo is probably the most economical and practical form of magic one can practice.

It would be nice to have something specific for every condition, but a few candles, some basic incense and a bottle of Special Oil No. 20 can take you a long way. You'll also come to find many roots and herbs can serve several purposes -- obtain a supply of those "broad spectrum" ingredients to stretch your conjure budget. We all talk about how important cleansing is -- the earliest rootworkers relied on nothing fancier than salt or ammonia -- how cheap is that! So yes, like you, my Lucky Mojo wish list far exceeds my conjure allowance -- but with a little creativity one can work a wide variety of tricks with very little money invested.

Michelle
Michelle Hunter, a.k.a that Tricky CopperFox
I will lift mine eyes up to the mountains, from whence comes my strength...
Psalm 121

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Turnsteel
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by Turnsteel » Wed Jan 27, 2010 7:53 am

On the subject of stretching your conjure budget, something we've all thought about I'm sure, the Curio Kits and Spell kits are really good deals for the money. Just something to think about.
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MysticRootworker
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by MysticRootworker » Wed Jan 27, 2010 8:06 am

Great Idea HailDiscordia-
As we speak I am trying to put together my first order. I want to get it out today. I have $100 to spend and I would like a few things for love- BUT I NEED money ASAP- situation getting desperate. I would like a little fast luck- kinda feeling it for some reason and steady work. Starting a new little business venture that I feel is what I am supposed to be doing. I have alot of herbs but there are still some things I need. I have a BEAUTIFUL High John Root, Lucky Hand, Five Finger Grass- A start on my lucky hand mojo? I have access to the 4" spell candles as well as having several holders for them. Was thinking about attraction products- I would love a soap to wash with in the shower for cleansing. I am open to all suggestions. The only thing is I really dont like the scent of Roses in things. Unless it is well hidden. I love things that smell spicy like food. lol Even my perfume smells like a yummy food. I do LOVE citrus and some other flower scents are ok. I know this sounds kinda odd- but if it is too floral then I think of funeral flowers. My house was full of them after my husband died and I cannot take the scent. I would appreciate any suggestions. I will be placing another order in the next week or two. I have put this in my budget to do some work for people I know. I know we have to spend some occasionally to get some back.
Thanks guys - I appreciate all the help I get here. Oh I would like to try some of the follow me boy and bewitching too. Maybe start with the sachet? a little less in cost? Thanks!

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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by Turnsteel » Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:53 am

MysticRootworker wrote:As we speak I am trying to put together my first order. I want to get it out today. I have $100 to spend and I would like a few things for love- BUT I NEED money ASAP- situation getting desperate. I would like a little fast luck- kinda feeling it for some reason and steady work.
Both of those products, Steady Work, and Fast Luck are really good things to have on hand in oe form or another and a great place to start.
MysticRootworker wrote:I have alot of herbs but there are still some things I need. I have a BEAUTIFUL High John Root, Lucky Hand, Five Finger Grass- A start on my lucky hand mojo?
Its a start, but not a complete hand, I suggest you hold off on making a hand till you know what your doing, tho, buying one made for you from a worker or LuckyMojo is a fine idea.
MysticRootworker wrote:Was thinking about attraction products-
A very versatile formula and something great to have on hand.
MysticRootworker wrote:I would love a soap to wash with in the shower for cleansing.
LuckyMojo sells many spiritual soaps that are great for this, I personally suggest the African Black soap, or the camphor scented soap. They also have a few Lemon Grass scented ones you might like.
MysticRootworker wrote:The only thing is I really dont like the scent of Roses in things. Unless it is well hidden. I love things that smell spicy like food. lol Even my perfume smells like a yummy food. I do LOVE citrus and some other flower scents are ok. I know this sounds kinda odd- but if it is too floral then I think of funeral flowers. My house was full of them after my husband died and I cannot take the scent. I would appreciate any suggestions.
I suggest taking a look at 7-11 Holy Oil, it has a wonderful spicy smell to it and is absolutely wonderful for all sorts of things, from healing, to protection. Also, Special Oil No.20 is great for everything you'd burn a candle for,and you get a lot of oil for your money.

Hope all that helps.

God Bless and Good Luck
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Nathaniel
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by Nathaniel » Wed Jan 27, 2010 12:10 pm

Hi again everyone. I walked to town today and on my way there i thought of some more things concerning visualizations and using your imagination. You see i come from a Law of Attraction/Mind Programming background and i guess i am trying to see any relation to HooDoo.

What are the 'beliefs' that HooDoo and rootworkers have on Programming the mind?

I have been taught that nothing can reach you unless it comes through the sub-conscious mind. That our 'reality' is a product of the deep held beliefs of the unconscious mind. And that by using visualizations, affirmations, hypnosis, etc. when can re-pattern the unconscious mind and allow certain desires to manifest inside our physical reality. The images in the subconscious mind being and acting like a 'filter' that the energies of the unseen come through to this world so they can take physical shape. One thing i can personally say is that visualization with strong emotions keep me directed towards and excited about achieving my goals.

I think that visualizing with your candle magic, not only do you help the spirits to direct the energies to accomplishing your desires but you are causing your own inner mind to be conditioned to accept that reality into your earthly physical reality. Allowing the inner man to express itself in the physical.

There may even be mystical layers to this stuff that we have no clue about and have not discovered.

One thing is clear about imagination and magic though. It is much better to match your visualizations with the desired goal than to constantly dwell on it's opposite. lol

I'm sure all you have heard this theory before. I'm trying to find out what relation, if any, it has to Hoodoo and rootwork.

what ya think?

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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by MysticRootworker » Wed Jan 27, 2010 1:50 pm

Very well put Nathaniel-
I too have spent ALOT of time studying the Law of Attraction. I Believe there is something to it! As for how it fits with Hoodoo- I am too new to answer any questions. I am now throwing myself into learnning all I can about this wonderful practice.
:-)

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Nathaniel
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by Nathaniel » Wed Jan 27, 2010 2:04 pm

And thank you MysticRootWorker. By the way, I wish i had your username! lol
And yes, it is a WONDERFUL practice that i am completly determined to Master as much as possible.
i was thinking about saving up some money and purchasing a lot of materials from here. I know i have to get a blender/coffee grinder because i am too make my own oils, incenses and powders as well. I need to mix and grind. A pestal and mortal just in case the lights go out and i can't use the blender. lol
Hope to see you a lot in the forums. If i can i will make you a Friend in the user control panel here.

Best wishes to your Hoodoo learning.

p.s. what system of magic did you study before Hoodoo? If any. Just wondering if you are familiar with the
Voodoo Loa/Lwa. Namely Legba, Met Kalfou(his dark side) and Grand Bwa.
Have you any training in Necromancy and working with the dead?

take care!

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Nathaniel
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by Nathaniel » Wed Jan 27, 2010 2:16 pm

thanks MysticRootWorker.

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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by path2success » Wed Jan 27, 2010 3:37 pm

I was led to hoodoo through loa. I knew my goal but I didn't know how to get there & now I know it was meant to be through LM, AIRR & hoodoo. So I feel both work powerfully - the underlying strength is prayer & belief. I've seen miracles in my life even purely through the power of prayer & strong desire. LOA was probably a tool but i found LOA through prayer, tremendous belief in my love & in Infant Jesus. He's been with me every step of my challenging life.

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Nathaniel
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by Nathaniel » Wed Jan 27, 2010 4:19 pm

path2success: Interesting. I'm sure when you say "LOA" you mean the Law of Attraction. Right?
lol. I was asking MysticRootWorker if the VooDoo Lwa/Loa(Gods) has influenced their life or if they were familiar with these VooDoo Gods(LOA or spirits). What about you? are you familiar with them.
By the way, I have the Infant Jesus of Prague on one of my alters as well. But i do not do rituals with him that often thou. I mainly work with my Ancestors, Guardian Angels, Spirit guides, Spirits of the dead and the Voodoo LOA(Papa Legba, Met Kalfou, Baron Samedi and Grand Bwa). What about you?
Grand Bwa is a god of roots, the forests, trees, herbs and the magic of them.


thanks

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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by Turnsteel » Wed Jan 27, 2010 4:30 pm

Nathaniel wrote:path2success: Interesting. I'm sure when you say "LOA" you mean the Law of Attraction. Right?
lol. I was asking MysticRootWorker if the VooDoo Lwa/Loa(Gods) has influenced their life or if they were familiar with these VooDoo Gods(LOA or spirits). What about you? are you familiar with them.
By the way, I have the Infant Jesus of Prague on one of my alters as well. But i do not do rituals with him that often thou. I mainly work with my Ancestors, Guardian Angels, Spirit guides, Spirits of the dead and the Voodoo LOA(Papa Legba, Met Kalfou, Baron Samedi and Grand Bwa). What about you?
Grand Bwa is a god of roots, the forests, trees, herbs and the magic of them.


thanks
I hate to nitpick, but the l'wa are not gods, Vodou is a monotheistic faith with Bondye as the distant creator of the world, the l'wa are,well, intermediary beings.
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Nathaniel
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by Nathaniel » Wed Jan 27, 2010 5:22 pm

HailDiscordia: thank you. do you mean that they are mediators between man and the Gods?

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Nathaniel
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by Nathaniel » Wed Jan 27, 2010 5:26 pm

rather between man a GOD?

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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by MysticRootworker » Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:13 pm

Nathaniel wrote:And thank you MysticRootWorker. By the way, I wish i had your username! lol
And yes, it is a WONDERFUL practice that i am completly determined to Master as much as possible.
i was thinking about saving up some money and purchasing a lot of materials from here. I know i have to get a blender/coffee grinder because i am too make my own oils, incenses and powders as well. I need to mix and grind. A pestal and mortal just in case the lights go out and i can't use the blender. lol
Hope to see you a lot in the forums. If i can i will make you a Friend in the user control panel here.

Best wishes to your Hoodoo learning.

p.s. what system of magic did you study before Hoodoo? If any. Just wondering if you are familiar with the
Voodoo Loa/Lwa. Namely Legba, Met Kalfou(his dark side) and Grand Bwa.
Have you any training in Necromancy and working with the dead?

take care!
I have just practiced simple spellcrafting. Studied wicca but it just never fit as well as Hoodoo seems to be. I think it was too far away from my upbringing for me to really "feel" it. I have went to a Spiritualist church and that fits well too. They believe in communication with the spirit world. Mediumship. As well as Faith healing I guess you would call it. I can & do communicate with people in spirit. BUT from what I can tell about Necromancy it is a little different? I practice several energy healing modalities. I just placed my first order today with LM and I cannot wait to get it!! From what I see on here it is AMAZING stuff. I do have a mortar and pestle if I can find it. LOL I have been wondering where I put it for awhile now. I am only somewhat familiar with Papa Legba and some of the others. I have only read a little so far. But I have several books on Voodoo as well as Hoodoo. I like my name on here too! lol
It is nice to meet you. :D

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Nathaniel
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by Nathaniel » Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:26 pm

lol

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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by Turnsteel » Wed Jan 27, 2010 7:15 pm

Nathaniel wrote:rather between man a GOD?
Yes, as it was taught to me, the Lwa are between man and God, and Papa Legba is between man and the Lwa.
You can't get to the Lwa but through Papa Legba and you can't really get to Bondye, he is distant.
That always trips up the new agers lol.

But absolutely none of this is really germane to this board, I suggest privet messages if you feel the need to talk about things off topic.
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by MysticRootworker » Wed Jan 27, 2010 7:53 pm

LOL Believe it or not HailDiscordia I actually Thought I PM'd that last post! Well- it was my intention- but I have been multi-tasking all night.

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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by path2success » Wed Jan 27, 2010 7:57 pm

by loa i meant law of attraction! I've never tried spirits or ancestors. I only have Jesus on my altar. I'm still learning :)

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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by Turnsteel » Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:09 pm

MysticRootworker wrote:LOL Believe it or not HailDiscordia I actually Thought I PM'd that last post! Well- it was my intention- but I have been multi-tasking all night.
Its all good, just don't want anyone getting in trouble with the mods :)
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by ConjureMan Ali » Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:13 pm

The the question of the original post, visualization does not play a huge role in conjure, unlike other systems of magick. The key to conjure likes in the proper application of herbal knowledge compounded with effective prayer. This praying is the key to channeling the power that the conjuerer brings to bear. That doesn't mean that you cannot include some visualization in your conjure-work, its just not the main MO.

As to visualization itself, it has a place in magick and is definately a skill that should be developed if you seek to use any system of magick other than conjure. However, a distinction must be made between imagination and visualization. Imagination is a passive creative process where as visualization is active. You are actively creating and seeing your goal as already accomplished and therefore guiding your energy towards that end.

The Law of Attraction is neat, but its really just a watered down version of a more ancient system of laws as revealed in hermetic doctrine.
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by MysticRootworker » Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:29 pm

ConjureMan-
I was introduced to that a few months ago (hermetic doctrine). I read a little then got sidetracked and set it aside. I think I will pull that back out and start again. I took a class on consciously creating your life and it was suggested we read about that. Thanks for the reminder. With my ADD I stop and start ALOT. I ordered Crown of Success oil today and I am hoping that I can use that to help me with that. ;)
Have a great evening

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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by freegirl » Thu Jan 28, 2010 1:36 am

Visualization actually effects the brain-- if you read the book THE BRAIN THAT CHANGES ITSELF, which is about brain plasticity, it describes different processes in stroke victims and other things that demonstrate that the brain does not always know the difference between "imagining" and "doing." So if I mentally rehearse a piece of music and see myself doing it, I will actually be able to play it as if I'd practiced-- I don't have the "muscle memory" but I have much more than one "should" have.

Just to ssay, the principles are not just "LOA" but biological. I do like LOA but even if I didn't, this is why athletes visualize, it's not just to feel good or think positively, it has a tangible, quantifiable impact on their actual work. Naturally, you have to do the work too! :)

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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by MysticRootworker » Thu Jan 28, 2010 5:49 am

It is like when we "visualize" exercising. It has been shown (at Cleveland Clinic) to actually strengthen muscles. How awesome is that for showing the power of our minds. Freegirl- I have heard of that book but have not had the opportunity to read it. Interesting stuff..

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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by kevinloa74 » Thu Jan 28, 2010 7:46 am

im just curious and like learning. im not sure if ill ever get into hoodooing.

i like the lucky mojo store they look like they got good stuff there.

so if i get this right the praying is just a way of focusing. kinda like how some mages might use a visualization to focus on or others use incantations. in hoodoo the prayer is used to focus. it isnt a request really but the focus of the energy.

are there any kinds of book that help show how to pray in the hoodoo style. um i guess i think im still looking for like an example of tone cadence and style of hoodoo prayer. just so it makes sense to me.

also i see miss catherines book has gotten good recs so im going to check that out.

any other good hoodoo books?

most of what i found seemed kina sociological.

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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by jwmcclin » Thu Jan 28, 2010 9:11 am

kevinloa74,

LM has several books on this subject but one that is most often discussed is "The Secret of the Psalms," found here
http://www.luckymojo.com/secretspsalms.html

You can also research this link of books sold by the Lucky Mojo sop:
http://www.luckymojo.com/mojocatbooks.html

And catherine has uploaded an annotated bibliography of books about hoodoo online here, at her Southern Spirits web site:
http://www.southern-spirits.com/hoodoo- ... raphy.html
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by Devi Spring » Thu Jan 28, 2010 9:29 am

kevinloa74,

The prayer IS also a request - in hoodoo you are doing everything by the power of spirit, and God is the biggest spirit of them all. If your work isn't justified by God, then it simply won't happen. So while prayer focuses your work, it does absolutely include invocation.
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by GRACIE1406 » Fri Jan 29, 2010 3:03 pm

I'm quite new to this. Can anyone please advise me if Santeria and Hoodoo spells complement each other and can be used together or is this not the case? Need some help and advice on this please. Many thanks

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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by Devi Spring » Fri Jan 29, 2010 4:37 pm

GRACIE1406 --

Santeria is a religion - so one needs to be an initiated practitioner, or under the guidance of a priest or priestess of that religion to work effectively with those spirits. It has many liturgies, rites and taboos that need to be followed correctly, and that are part of the magical practices present in that tradition.

Hoodoo is folk-magic that comes primarily from the Christian African-American community, though you don't HAVE to be Christian to practice it. There aren't any set liturgical rites that need to be followed (as it's not a religion), and very few taboos - really there are general guidelines that one follows, but usually there are a few acceptable alternatives and variations that practitioner can choose between.

Because hoodoo contains many African folk magic elements, and Santeria also contains African elements, there may be some very similar methods used - so if one was an initiated practitioner of Santeria, they could probably use many conjure methods effectively, as they would know where they intersect and how to apply any religious rites as necessary. However, if you are working the Orisha as part of your hoodoo you are not practicing strictly traditional conjure, as traditional conjure was developed among primarily Baptists (or at least Protestant Christian) practitioners.

But it would really take being a knowledgeable practitioner of Santeria and of hoodoo to be able to blend them intelligently. They are two pretty unrelated systems.
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by Literarylioness » Fri Jan 29, 2010 6:55 pm

I am tactile and verbal, so my visionary skills are not great, which is why I like rootwork so much. I can touch stuff and feel everything. I don't imagine myself getting whatever goal I am setting, but I put my energy into the creating of the spell itself. That could be rubbing the candles with oils, carving a candle, speaking the Psalm or prayer with conviction, etc. I set it and forget it.

Mary

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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by ConjureMan Ali » Fri Jan 29, 2010 7:57 pm

I can see that, Mary. One of the unique aspects of conjure is that it is not visualization based. While there is certainly influences of hermetic and kabbalistic thought and practices in conjure, the visualization techniques simply didn't seem to come over. I think the reason why visualization isn't key either is the nature of conjure. Conjure is based on sympathetic magick which works off the idea that as you burn the candles, say the prayers, work the doll baby that you are actually effecting your target through your link. Unlike other systems of magick which rely on creating a situations and bringing it "down" into reality from their thoughts. I've always found that both interesting and stimulating about conjure. Its a good break from all the visualization needed in high magick ;-).
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by ConjureMan Ali » Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:08 pm

One of the things that I find about conjure/hoodoo is that it can effectively used along with any system without compromising its integrity, nor becoming "eclectic."

However, I find that whenever people try to combine magick systems that it usually ends in messy spell casting. It's perfectly fine to have several systems of magick under your belt and I would probably recommend it. This arrangement gives you options and helps you cover areas that aren't always covered by one system or another. If they are used as two separate systems and respected for their distinct paradigms, then you should have no trouble. However, blending them may lead to some conflict.

Symbols are powerful within the context of their system. If you call upon the Orishas as you perform a hoodoo conjure like a hot foot spell, it may not produce the results you seek, since you are combining symbols in a haphazard way.

Learn conjure for what it is and learn whatever other system - Santeria in this case - for what it is.

Learn to choose which system to use for which case and switch between the two when necessary and you should be fine. Combining them into one personalized system is not a good idea in my opinion.
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by MysticRootworker » Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:31 pm

I have yet another question- lol
If while I am preparing a candle for my honey jar I concentrate on my target and tap into him and the conjure thru my emotions I guess you would say. Is that the idea? I dont know how to explain it exactly. I pray on what I want then I just feel it. I often put myself back in moments that stay with me. I hear him tell me he loves me like he did at that moment and I FEEL it. I know that is alot like LOA but I am not intending it to be that way. Is this appropriate? It certainly feels good to me and I think at times I am reaching out and touching him. lol I know I can. Just don't know if that is how I should be doing it. I know we are supposed to be heartfelt in our prayer and it feels like it is working for me. He DID actually IM with me the other night. I felt a shift in our energies after Sunday when we emailed and I told him I would be fine with us being "just friends"... I think it took pressure off of him and made him WANT to talk. I am not obsessing or worrying. Just kinda going with the flow and waiting for my order from LM. AND for my next opportunity to get personal items of his.. I believe that if it is meant to be then this will be. If not well I am sure God knows best. Oh and I have the money now to get my reading! As well as order more of what I need for my work. I placed a good order the other day but there are still several things I need. (Ofcourse)
Thanks for reading this and helping me.

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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by Literarylioness » Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:43 pm

I will say something interesting about the different styles of learning, e.g., visual, sensory, and audio. If I am targeting someone, I will pick up their main function. Since vision is my weakest, when I see things really clearly, I know I am tapping into someone else's style.

I noticed this with my first client. She was in love with a filmmaker (visual). When I worked on him, gosh, I saw everything! I knew it was him and not me, because I just don't operate that way. Of course if the target is audio or tactile, I won't notice anything, since those are my natural operating functions. I find men are more visual than woman, so they are interesting for me.

Mary

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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by ConjureMan Ali » Fri Jan 29, 2010 9:08 pm

I find you can use that learning style doing mental influence on a person. If I pick up that they are visual, saying things like "you *see* yourself with _," or if they are auditory, "You can just *hear* her saying she loves you." Adjusting vocabulary in your conjure of mental influence seems to work really well and I've gotten great results with it. Makes it more natural for them to accept my suggestions.
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by night » Sat Jan 30, 2010 7:35 am

I am also new here, and I hope I don't offend in offering my thoughts and questions. All that follows is strictly IMHO.

GRACIE1406, I would advise you to read this:
http://www.luckymojo.com/hoodoohistory.html#hoodoonot
and be very clear within yourself the difference between conjure/brujeria/magick and religion, whatever your religion may be. This is easier said than done when it comes to Santeria and Hoodoo, because the distinctions can get extremely blurry!

Santeria and Voodoo (Vodou) are religions that also incorporate magickal practices which form the basis of, or share important characteristics with, many Hoodoo workings. Both religions syncretized Orisha/lwa with Catholic saints in the new world, and also adopted some portions of Catholic and/or JudeoChristian liturgy and scripture in rituals that honor African Mysteries, and most Diaspora altars include saint's images that "represent" lwa/Orisha. This is for many a significant intersection of Hoodoo and Voodoo (and Santeria).

I have only a passing and respectful acquaintance with Santeria but in Haiti many serve the lwa, who may have passed down in a family over generations, without having been officially initiated or becoming a member of a peristyle. While the "organized" peristyle is an essential center of many communities, Vodou is also a "homestyle" religion (something like Judaism?) where many of the important religious rituals are practiced within the family, at home, and as such ANYONE, initiated or not, can call on the lwa for help or to give thanks or reverence: an individual's relationship with the Mysteries is intimate and private. It is not considered disrespectful or irreligious in any way to involve them in one's daily affairs, make requests, or perform works under the lwa's auspices, any more than giving in return offerings, gifts, or rituals to honor them. This "contractual," mutual relationship between person and Spirit is an integral aspect of the religion.

Since Baptists and Christian Protestants don't recognize, let alone revere, saints, couldn't an argument could be made that the Hoodoo practice of calling on, for instance, St Expedite, is actually a way of calling on Ellegua/Papa Legba and that the original intent and meaning has been lost or obscured over time?

To a vodounsi working with St Expedite IS working with a lwa. (In Haiti, where the majority of Vodou practitioners consider themselves good Catholics, if one wishes to end their relationship with the lwa, they leave the Catholic Church and become Protestants!)

So the problem, ConjureMan, is not that the symbols (and in many cases the methodology and even, admitting for availability due to geographics, the ingredients of conjure) are different, but that they are often identical. If nothing else it serves to muddy the waters, so to speak. Coming to Hoodoo from Vodou or Santeria perspective can be very confusing and elating at the same time, because one recognizes so many seemingly familiar things - baths, the use of work lamps, the images, candles and colors on the altar, etc.

"Santeria is a religion - so one needs to be an initiated practitioner, or under the guidance of a priest or priestess of that religion to work effectively with those spirits." Maybe so, but many, many uninitiated people do work informally with the Orishas.

"It has many liturgies, rites and taboos that need to be followed correctly, and that are part of the magical practices present in that tradition." And those who do, do so at their own risk. ;)

I agree with you, Devi, but feel compelled to add that it's very, very common that people "work the spirits" (lwa or Orisha) for a time before, perhaps, one or another Orisha or lwa demands that person be initiated (or, often, married to the Mystery). Others go their whole lives without this obligation being placed on them. It is said that the Mysteries choose you, not the other way around, and a respectful attitude goes a long way.

Gracie, if you are working with a babalorisha/iyalorisha, then of course you should ask, and defer to, them. If not...I don't know if Santeria has a tradition of working with djabs ("wild spirits") but they are more or less "personal" lwa who are generally eager to make contact and quite capable of making their preferences and terms known. In addition avoiding the risks of inadvertently offending a "major" lwa by accidentally breaking a taboo or not knowing the proper service, they are said to be very fast and hardworking, since they are not deluged by requests like the well-known lwa. :)

IMO, LM products and conjure style do compliment Voodoo very nicely, and don't seem at odds with the work of santeros.

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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by Nathaniel » Sat Jan 30, 2010 7:59 am

hi all. I am mostly visual. And i was reading some of the last posts here and have several questions if you don't mind. 1. if i am working on someone but don't personally know them how are some of the ways i can find out if they are mostly visual, auditory, etc. so i can better connect to them and affect then easier? 2. after i find this out then what?- can you give me some spell examples of using this type of information in a spell on someone please? and 3. ( don't have anything to do with the above) but, what are some of the things i can use to poke a whole down to the bottom of a 7 day candle so i can put oil in it?



thanks

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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by Devi Spring » Sat Jan 30, 2010 8:18 am

"Santeria is a religion - so one needs to be an initiated practitioner, or under the guidance of a priest or priestess of that religion to work effectively with those spirits." Maybe so, but many, many uninitiated people do work informally with the Orishas
True, what I was getting at, is that you really should be educated on the various taboos of dealing with Orisha, or in the Vodou the lwa, before involving yourself in them. There are so many people coming from the NeoPagan realm that are interested in ATRs right now, and they feel they can just put them on their altar full of other spirits and gods, and use them without having any real ideas about the real temperments of the spirits, or what to to not to present them with, what types of spirits they are jealous or aggressive towards (and so you wouldn't want to try and keep them on an altar with such figures or call them into the same circle with them, etc).

So, one needs to be educated in these things. If you're coming from outside the culture where Santeria or Vodou is commonly practiced, and so the various dos and don'ts are common knowledge, then you really do at least need the guidance of an experienced practitioner, or clergy, in order to proceed with any sort of eye for traditional respect.
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by night » Sat Jan 30, 2010 8:33 am

Thank you for clarifying, I hadn't thought about it from that perspective, and I couldn't agree more.

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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by Turnsteel » Sat Jan 30, 2010 3:20 pm

Nathaniel wrote:1. if i am working on someone but don't personally know them how are some of the ways i can find out if they are mostly visual, auditory, etc. so i can better connect to them and affect then easier?
Intuition, if your is any good, or divination, it'd be simple to answer with a pendulum.
Nathaniel wrote:2. after i find this out then what?- can you give me some spell examples of using this type of information in a spell on someone please?
Conjure Man gave great examples in the post directly above yours.
Nathaniel wrote:3. ( don't have anything to do with the above) but, what are some of the things i can use to poke a whole down to the bottom of a 7 day candle so i can put oil in it?
Anything long,straight and not too wide. And such holes don't have to go all the way to the bottom of the candle, that is mostly personal preference.
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by ConjureMan Ali » Sat Jan 30, 2010 3:57 pm

I usually use a screw driver or similar long tool to make the holes.

Use divination or your own mental abilities to discover more about the target.

Discovering their learning style helps in any type of influence work and can help in boosting your conjures ability to influence a person. For example if you are doing a candle spell for love and your target is a visual learner you can dress your altar or workspace with images of hearts, lots of pinks and reds, or surround the candle with pictures of love. If the person is an auitory learner then try playing a bit of love music while working. Like I mentioned previously this can be used even in the wording of your suggestions and petitions. Using phrases like "you feel_" work for tactile learners while using phrases like "imagine, or see" for visual learners.
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by Nathaniel » Sat Jan 30, 2010 4:03 pm

very good answers! thanks. i never looked at those 'hooks' or 'anchors' before. thanks. my intuition is very good but i never directed it that way. lol

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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by ConjureMan Ali » Sat Jan 30, 2010 4:28 pm

GRACIE1406,

Ah, there's the rub, these religions are not identical. "Similar" is not "identical."

This is a common misunderstanding that arises from modern pseudoscholarship that has been influenced by figures like Thorklid Jacobsen and James Frazer, which attempts to find some form of universal symbolism that can be used to create connections between cultures. This misunderstanding has actually tainted the true study of human mythology, and, unfortunately, this mode of thinking fails to see the complexity of religions within their own social context.

Instead of seeing the natural cultural values in figures like Baal, Jupiter, Papa Legba, and Saint Expedite, instead we see "Sky God," "Trickster," "Storm God," or "Psychopomp." While this approach may have its uses, it does not help the aspiring student to see from *within* the culture and its own paradigms.

So are Papa Legba and Saint Expedite similar? Absolutely. Has their been crossover? Certainly. These similarities are a problem, but its the difference that create the issue. Furthermore, Saint Expedite and Papa Legba, for all their similarites, are not the same entity as the Ol' Funny Boy at the Crossroads or The De3vil or The Black Man, when seen in the context of Vodou and Hoodoo.

In Vodou, the symbolism of Saint Expedite and Papa Legba may be combined. Each culture and religion as the right to adopt and meld symbols to fit their own paradigm. This however does not change the symbol in another culture or the way Saint Expedite is seen in the European Catholic Church or in Catholic hoodoo.

For example, Papa Legba for all his similarites to Saint Expedite is an initiatory deity as well as a trickster in Vodou.

This does not explain Saint Expedite in hoodoo, where the saints are actually only petitioned by Catholic practitioners -- as Catholic saints -- as explained by miss cat.

Saint Expedite is not an initiatory deity. If I am using a Catholic hoodoo paradigm, I cannot call upon Saint Expedite to help initiate me into any mysteries. He is called upon to speed things up.

However, If I am working according to the precepts of Vodou, I can certainly call on Saint Expedite as I would Papa Legba. There is no reason why I cannot work with both, but I must remember to separate them in my mind.

And in most of hoodoo practice, I would never call on Saint Expedite nor Papa Legba.Hoodoo is mostly a Protestant Christian form of folk magic.

This can be difficult for people coming from other systems. It is our natural desire to correlate them to things we already know or are familiar with, but we must resist the temptation. If I am coming from a Vodou background I must check my preconceived notions at the door so that I may make room for a new set of teachings that may be similar to what I already know, but have meaning all on their own.

So you see, people may see similarities, but unless they master the system as its own creature they will create generalizations that fail to graps the beauty that is in the details.
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by kevinloa74 » Tue Feb 02, 2010 8:27 am

it may or may not be granted? intresting thanks.

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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by Devi Spring » Tue Feb 02, 2010 12:20 pm

Yes -that's why it is important to always do a divination, or have a reading done for you, BEFORE doing any work in order to get the most accurate idea possible if the work will or will not successful. If the divinations are not showing a positive outcome, then you're better off not doing that work.
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by Literarylioness » Wed Feb 03, 2010 10:13 am

Hey Folks,

Please read the background on Hoodoo. It is an interesting exchange, but it is going to far off topic. If you want to discuss these things, please PM each other.

Thanks,

Mary

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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by kevinloa74 » Thu Feb 04, 2010 7:47 am

thats interesting. what does justified in gods eyes mean? like is there criteria? if something has to be in gods eyes to work then how do peple do black magic hoodoo or curses in this system? innocent people get curses yeah? so how do you petition god with stuff like that? im sure tehre are people who work curses not just for justified cases and just because.

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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by Devi Spring » Thu Feb 04, 2010 8:34 am

Justified is a case-by-case contextual thing - there is no set criteria.

If a guy breaks up with you leaving you to take care of his kids, then it is likely justified that you work against him to get him to come back, or at least to pay for his children. If someone gossips about you causing trouble for you undeservedly, then you are likely justified in working against that person to expose them as a gossip and restore your reputation.

But many times people don't tell the truth about a situation, and that is why divination is also needed to make sure that a worker gets a full picture of the situation. For instance, if the person claiming that a gossip has ruined their lives come to you, then divination shows that they messed around with the gossipers man, then the correct justified action will be a bit more complicated...because it may be justified that the gossiper got them fired.

Technically very few people are 100% innocent - there's always someone you've wronged at some point.
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by kevinloa74 » Tue Feb 09, 2010 7:47 am

so its more subjective than some criteria set. cool thank you. i'll keep looking for some examples of hoodooists praying for a specific goal.

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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by MysticRootworker » Tue Feb 09, 2010 8:37 am

Devi-

I must respectfully disagree with your last comment. While I do not believe people are 100% innocent in life we are all human and make mistakes. There are times when some people have their own issues and they are just projecting them out to other people. It is funny I ran across this post considering just last night I heard once again about some women who take issue with me and I KNOW ITS NOT ME. I live in a small community and the social scene is very limited. I just stay home most often alone with my animals. (Best companions ever) I lost my husband 5yrs ago and I lost my only biological child during pregnancy and he is buried with his father. I am not asking for sympathy, just explaining my situation. I do live on a farm with my family around me and I have umpteen friends who love and respect me as I do them.

My first husband said to me once years ago that they are like this because I am actually a "nice" person and they hate me because they know in their hearts they will never be like that. Maybe thats true. My heart is nice to others and I dont want to be any other way. But it is very hurtful and I am full up with the back biting. I am going to take action and it will be deserved. I just want to be happy and let others be the same. I believe that God wants us to give a crap about each other and the world in general. It is not always about us and the little BS that happens in our lives to trip us up. But I just cannot ignore them anymore.

So the point of this rant was to just say that SOMETIMES we are not doing anything to others and they just have issues that they take out on other people. I just cannot turn the other cheek anymore. Why should I? (Now that I found LM and all its helpful resources!)
I am ever so gratedful to find this place and have access to products and resources that I know are just what I have been seeking. The community here is full of wise spiritual people (such as yourself) who I am so very happy to have found. I am new and I don't know alot about Hoodoo but I certainly have a great respect for the practice and the people who live their lives practicing it. I fully plan on expanding my knowledge and I study daily. Soon I hope to be excepted as a student of Cat's so that one day I can be like all of you who take time out of your lives to help the "newbies" such as myself.

Thanks for listening.

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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by Devi Spring » Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:20 am

My point was a response to the idea that someone has to be guilty in some respect for God to allow a curse to be set on them - why some workers can get a curse to land on an innocent person at the behest of someone petty and angry when it's not seemingly justified. My opinion is that no one is 100% innocent. At some point in time we've done something wrong, and that leaves chinks in our spiritual armor. Unless everyone everywhere is at all times being diligent with spiritual cleansing and protections, people are going to be vulnerable to attack.
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by MysticRootworker » Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:29 am

Yes I agree- we all at sometime have done a wrong. I see what you are saying. Thanks for listening and thanks for teaching. Even though I havent done anything wrong to the people I mentioned I have certainly done my share of wrong or selfish things to others! Your great Devi I love reading your posts.

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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by catherineyronwode » Sat Feb 20, 2010 1:13 am

Dear GRACIE1406 ,

Most practitioners of conjure are Protestant Christians and do not work with any saints at all. Hence questions such as whether the Catholic Saint Expedite is similar to the West African Lukumi or Cuban Santeria spirits such as Ellgua or Legba are useless, pointless, time-wasting, and really just off the mark.

Protestant Christians don't work with Catholic saints or African spirits of any kind.

Most practitioners of conjure are Protestant Christians.

These videos may help you understand:

Tis the Old Ship of Zion (a must watch) Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHU6LF2N ... 28A9C3C6AE
Watch and listen to Pastor Robert Welch sing this old time hymn! Make sure you watch out for part 2!

Tis the Old Ship of Zion (a must watch) Part 2 (Awesome Prayer)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAWG0l-9 ... 28A9C3C6AE
Watch and listen to Pastor Robert Welch pray this awesome prayer! Make sure you watch out for part 1!
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by catherineyronwode » Sun Feb 21, 2010 6:55 pm

Kevinloa74,

Here's another way to look at it:

Most hoodoo is practiced by Christians. Most Christians know how to pray for success, and so they add prayer to the other hoodoo components, which are root work (working with roots, herbs, minerals, etc.), working with spiritual supplies (oils, candles, powders, incense, baths, and floor washes). talismanic work, crafting contained spells (like mojo hands, honey jars, or jack balls), etc.

Maybe this video of a Black Baptist church service will provide insight into African American culture for you.

Star Missionary Baptist Church 16 June 2013
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfFCsAbj ... 5fMyaCepOQ
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by kevinloa74 » Thu Feb 25, 2010 8:17 am

thanks. thats interesting

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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by catherineyronwode » Mon Mar 15, 2010 7:17 pm

Tonight i have been searching the forum for problematic words. I do this all the time, just to keep the site clean and up to our standards. I edit and delete posts when i find violations of our terms of service. I do this about once or twice a week.

The rules are linked at the top of each page, right next to the FAQ and the list of member names. This link will get you to the rules:

faq.php?mode=rules

I would like to note that it is against the rules of this forum to say disrespectful or libelous things about any person, nation, or religion. ANY of them.

Here are the relevant portions of the forum rules that forbid defaming people or their religions:

--------------------------------
. No defamatory comments. A defamatory comment is a slanderous comment that is capable of damaging the reputation of a person or organization. If slander does occur and you are successfully sued, you could be held liable for damages and costs.

. Do not post messages which are illegal, harassing, defamatory, or abusive. Posts which are threatening, injurious, obscene, irreverent, homophobic, or racially offensive are not permitted.
--------------------------------

Now i do understand that a certain number of people have entered into the study and practice of magic after receiving opposition from family and friends who opposed it on religious grounds. Such has always been the case.

Interestingly, in the practice of Southern style African American conjure, such is quite often NOT the case, for most family-tradition practitioners, long-time practitioners, and those raised in conjure culture are also church goers and may be members of various denominations of Protestant, Spiritualist, Catholic, New Thought, Apostolic, Holiness, or Pentecostal Christian churches.

If you are new to hoodoo, you should learn to accept this truth at the door: While not all practitioners of conjure are Christians, most are, and if you came here expecting us to delight in your dumping on the Christian faith, you came to the wrong place.

Likewise, as a full-service occult shop, whose co-owner is the pastor of an inter-faith and multi-cultural Spiritualist church (Missionary Independent Spiritual Church) that "welcomes all deities to our altars and all congregants to our services," Lucky Mojo will not permit this forum to be used as a dumping ground for the posting of unhappy personal memories or projected fears about any religions -- including not only Christianity, but also Judaism, Islam, Shaivism, Shaktiism, Vaishnavism, Satanism, Confucianism, Gnosticism, Zoroastrianism, Wicca, Buddhism, Taoism, Neo-Paganism, Heathenism, Setianism, Animism, Shintoism, Shamanism, Santeria, Lukumi, Rastafarianism, Voodoo, Jainism, New Thought, Religious Science, Ethical Culture, Babism, Bahai, Kemetism, Sikhism, Shamanism, or what-have-you.

Thinking about bashing the religion you were raised in?

Don't do it here.

Thinking about bashing a religion that you joined and later left?

Don't do it here.

Thinking about bashing a religion that you think is "evil"?

Don't do it here.

Just don't.

Thanks.
catherine yronwode
teacher - author - LMCCo owner - HP and AIRR member - MISC pastor - forum admin

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skyme714
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Re: Hoodoo and Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

Unread post by skyme714 » Wed Mar 17, 2010 11:36 am

Hello all,

i am back from a long break from LM community! I thought of a question though. Can someone please explain why do we ask Saints for help rather than ask God? In many prayers to Saints there are lines like "intercede for me in front of God", so why dont we ask God directly for our needs but instead going to a third party (Saints)?
I understand that different Saints are patrons of different things, but in the end God is the one who decides!

Thank you.

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