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Ethics: Moral Justification Before God, "Black Magic," Karma

lady_sakura

Ethics: Moral Justification Before God, "Black Magic," Karma

Unread post by lady_sakura » Mon Mar 09, 2009 3:50 pm

hello, i just signed up and i am new. i got some questions if thats ok.

i talked to my bf about magick and how it works. no, he doesn't practice it and won't ever. we had a discussion about it and how it can have bad effects.

if ur using it for "good intentions" how can it affect u badly?

i dont have any intentions to use it bad, but if u did use something for bad intentions, what are the outcomes of that happening? when do u see it? what will happen 2 u?

has anyone ever in their life experienced that?

what if someone is using a love spell to make someone fall in love with u, isnt that bad karma right there?

my bf was telling me that magick itself is just bad, black magic is the worst u can get.

can someone explain to me how magick works?

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Re: Ethics: Moral Justification Before God, "Black Magic," Karma

Unread post by catherineyronwode » Mon Mar 09, 2009 3:59 pm

Dear lady_sakura,

If you believe that magic is harmful, you simply should stop studying it or practicing it. It is not a universal path, and no one is forcing you to walk it.

General theories about how magic works will differ depending on the cultural beliefs and experiences of whoever answers your questions. Since you have asked some questions of Lucky Mojo, and i am the founder and co-owner of the company, i will give you my some of own personal opinions. I have written them down here:

http://www.luckymojo.com/spells/real.html

However, this forum is not intended as a place to discuss general theories of magic; it is about hoodoo, and specifically about using Lucky Mojo spiritual supplies in the African American rootwork tradition.

God Bless!
catherine yronwode

joeygomez74

Re: Ethics: Moral Justification Before God, "Black Magic," Karma

Unread post by joeygomez74 » Fri Feb 26, 2010 2:32 pm

I did about 4-5 love spells directed at the same person a while back,
and I think i am starting to receive negative energy/karma because of
it. I remember that one of the spells involved the help of a deceased
spirit. So I had to bury something at a person's grave. I think it was
one of your bottle spells. I am just wondering if I upset the natural
laws, or something. I don't remember what person's grave I went to.
But I might be able to track it down.

To my knowledge, the love spells didn't work. Which is fine, since I
realize that it's the natural law that we shouldn't be together. I just
want to now get rid of all the negative energy that is surrounding me
because of the spells I did. I have had some really bad stuff happen to
me in the past 6-8 months. And it has started affecting my mood and
mental health.

Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Joey

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Re: Ethics: Moral Justification Before God, "Black Magic," Karma

Unread post by thelightfantastic » Fri Feb 26, 2010 2:42 pm

Joey,

First, the concept of karma is not a part of hoodoo. Even if it were, karma effects your NEXT life, not this one so you'd be dealing with whatever you did the next go round.

Anyhow, if you're feeling negativity around yourself, take a cleansing bath. The 13 herb bath is good for such a thing. Protection is key as well. Either work with St. Michael for protection or order a Fiery Wall of Protection spell from LM.

You might also want to get a reading to determine if the spirit you asked for help might have something to do with things not going well. It could be totally unrelated but it's good to find out.
High praise to Saint Michael for his protection and guidance

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Re: Ethics: Moral Justification Before God, "Black Magic," Karma

Unread post by CopperFox » Fri Feb 26, 2010 3:17 pm

Hi, Joey.

Regarding your issue...since you are so very unclear on the details of the spell and how it was performed -- yes, I think it is possible that you've messed around in something you didn't know enough about and bought yourself some spiritual messes instead of the aid of a willing spirit. Try some rudimentary cleansing and see if that helps you -- search the forum for loads of information about how others cleanse themselves and their households to keep things going well.

Again, your post is so vague that I can't be too specific about what might be going on...so if you're still having ongoing trouble after a thorough regimen of cleansing for say, 3 weeks I would recommend you have a reading done with a reputable person to see if there is some underlying issue that needs to be dealt with.

In the future, I suggest you research and understand the spellwork you're undertaking, as well the repercussions and the ritual disposal and cleansing protocol for that particular spell. Keep a notebook to help you keep track of all the details. You may also want to look into hiring a worker to act as a magical coach, so that you can still learn to properly spellcast yourself, but at the same time have the advice of a professional to guide you.

Poorly executed spells rarely bring the results you want; worse, if you don't understand the nature of what you're doing and omit vital steps like seeking the permission of a spirit for taking grave dirt or failing to keep yourself cleansed, you can end up buying yourself a heap of trouble.

Good luck getting clear,

Michelle
Michelle Hunter, a.k.a that Tricky CopperFox
I will lift mine eyes up to the mountains, from whence comes my strength...
Psalm 121

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Re: Ethics: Moral Justification Before God, "Black Magic," Karma

Unread post by Devi Spring » Fri Feb 26, 2010 3:51 pm

Joey, thelightfantastic, and copperfox --

Actually, in the Eastern traditions there are many different kinds of karma, and it absolutely can effect this life. Karma is at its core cause and effect. You are working through past-life and this-life karma all at once. And yes, karmic debts can carry forward. But things you do now can and will affect you now.

But -- none of this applies in hoodoo.
Devi Spring: Reader & Rootworker - Proud AIRR member and HRCC Graduate.

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Re: Ethics: Moral Justification Before God, "Black Magic," Karma

Unread post by catherineyronwode » Fri Feb 26, 2010 6:20 pm

Joey's post was spammed into three categories. The poster has been warned.

I give grateful thanks to all of the "regulars" here who handled the multiple-post issue so well and answered the question while i was off the board. I've put everything that relates to the topic (minus all of the good advice posts about not spamming) into one single thread -- and this is it.

Carry on!
catherine yronwode

HelloKitty

Re: Ethics: Moral Justification Before God, "Black Magic," Karma

Unread post by HelloKitty » Mon Jun 28, 2010 11:33 am

Cat, I bought a product from here and it says that you teach lessons. I was wonderining. Do you also each your students how to create their own spells? Because everybody's situation is different and everybody goes through different things. and it's like that old saying,"Give a man a fish. He eats for a day. Teach a man how to fish. He eats for a lifetime."

I'm just afraid that I would need something and I won't be able to find the spell I'm looking for in your site.

I've also know that in your lesson plan you have Communication with spirits.

All kinds of spirits?

Like let's say a person has greatly done you wrong. You might want to summon up a powerful demon to get revenge on those who've wronged you, because you might want something specific to happen to them.

Like is it possible to summon up Goetia spiritis with Hoodoo? and I also assume that you teach how to avoid any karmic backslash.

Tho. I'm not a vengeful person. I've considered using black magic, but haven't done it, yet. I have a bit of fear and concern about black magic.

Like one time, it backfired and I don't want that to happen, again.

But I do believe that a person should protect themselves against people who are a threat to you and to other people you care about. I mean, some people are so horrible/crazy that they just need to be cursed for they are nothing more than a threat to society. Like the guy who sxxually attacked me a few years back and never gotten arrested.

If a situation can be resolved without black magic, then it should be. but sometimes people that are psychopaths or rapist and whatnot. They can't be reasoned with. They just need a curse on them.

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Re: Ethics: Moral Justification Before God, "Black Magic," Karma

Unread post by Devi Spring » Mon Jun 28, 2010 12:41 pm

HelloKitty,

Ok, I'm not Cat (this forum is not here as a communication tool to reach Miss Cat - if you have questions about the course, you can call the shop), but I'm a graduate of her class.

Yes, the class teaches you hoodoo theory and practice and requires you to learn to make your own spells.

No, the course does not teach Goetia, as that's not part of traditional hoodoo. If you want to learn Goetia, then you'll need to study some of the magical traditions that work with that. The spirit-work the course goes most deeply into is graveyard spirit work, as that is extremely prevalent in traditional hoodoo.

There is no such thing as karma in hoodoo, so "karmic backlash" is not something that is addressed in the course.
Devi Spring: Reader & Rootworker - Proud AIRR member and HRCC Graduate.

HelloKitty

Re: Ethics: Moral Justification Before God, "Black Magic," Karma

Unread post by HelloKitty » Mon Jun 28, 2010 2:30 pm

OK. Thank you, Devi Spring.

As for as the Goetia goes. I thought that since one of the courses was teaching spirit communications, that it could be used for other spirits than dead people. Like if you could summon the dead, then I suppose a person could summon any spirit whether its hoodoo or not. Like summoning a Goetia spirit using Hoodoo rituals. Like how Christians, Wiccans, Hoodoo practioners, and magicians all contact angels, but they all contact angels in different ways.

I just thought that the same spirits could be contacted using a Hoodoo ritual as opposed to the regular rituals, since the regular rituals can be very dangerous. People have gone insane, lost their lives, or had their life span cut short, from what I've heard.

But I'm super happy to know that the course teaches how to create your own spells :)

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Re: Ethics: Moral Justification Before God, "Black Magic," Karma

Unread post by Devi Spring » Mon Jun 28, 2010 2:33 pm

HelloKitty,

You need to understand the traditional theory and practice of European ceremonial magic Goetia evocation before you should even think about trying to do it via non-traditional means, such as using African American folk magic to summon Goetic spritis.

Generally the people who get in trouble are the ones who take Goetia too lightly, are not properly prepared and trained, and have not thought through their interaction with, petition to and instructions for the spirit. You don't HAVE to use the traditional Goetia rituals to work with the Goetia spirits (I don't for example), but without truly understanding the whys and hows of the traditional context, you are in no position to make intelligent substitutions.

Knowing one form of spirit communication in no way gives you a free pass on communicating with spirits who are expecting a particular protocol when being called and addressed.

Hoodoo is a specific form of folk magic with its own traditions, customs, and ways of working. African American magic is not a grab-bag of ideas that can be grafted onto European ceremonial magic.
Devi Spring: Reader & Rootworker - Proud AIRR member and HRCC Graduate.

HelloKitty

Re: Ethics: Moral Justification Before God, "Black Magic," Karma

Unread post by HelloKitty » Mon Jun 28, 2010 2:41 pm

Devi Spring,

I see, well thank you. I'll guess I'll just learn Hoodoo, first, then, since a lot of people seem to be extremely happy with the spells. Lucky Mojo has a lot of very happy costumers who really love the spells and have had great outcomes.

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Re: Ethics: Moral Justification Before God, "Black Magic," Karma

Unread post by jwmcclin » Mon Jun 28, 2010 5:49 pm

This is true HelloKitty...
I am proud to be a Lucky Mojo Forum Moderator

Seekinghelp123

Re: Ethics: Moral Justification Before God, "Black Magic," Karma

Unread post by Seekinghelp123 » Sun Sep 19, 2010 5:31 pm

1) Vinegar Jar and Revrsing Spell

I am feeling guilty and apprehension about my intention of creating a vinegar jar and performing a Reversal spell.There are two people, the boss and the associate. The boss and the associate are "friends" and I don't know them very well. I understand they are close but I am at a disadvantage. The associate twists around my words and situations to suit her/his favor and I am certain this person talks to the boss about me in a negative way. Since the boss and associate are close, I am positive the boss believes the associate and not me. I want to add that I can sense the associate is threatened by my presence because I am capable and smart and I can do a better job than her/him. The root of the situation is that the associate is a bully and is trying to remove me from the job by defaming my character and to try to isolate me and make me feel uncomfortable. ?The boss tolerates the behavior of the associate and has not done much to correct it. I want this situation to stop.Part of me wants to do a reversal spell on both parties so that they can experience the pain and anguish their actions have caused. Instead of their words and actions harming me, I would like it to come back at them. I also want to do a vinegar spell to separate the two. I do not wish harm on them but I sense their power comes from them being allies, but once separated they will not be so strong and confident in themselves. I want the boss and associate to stop being allies and have the boss favor me. So I wanted to do a honey jar spell with boss fix oil with me and the boss.

2) Honey Jar

I am not sure though about the honey jar for the boss. This boss can be two-faced and I am not sure if down the line this boss will just find a new ally to work against me. So I want the behavior of the boss to stop as well. I think I am a good person but when someone picks on those that are kind and not able to fully defend themselves, deep down I feel these kinds of people need a taste of their own medicine. I do believe in karma and I have faith that these people will eventually learn their lesson in life, but part of me wants to do something to have some justice. I want to reiterate that I do not wish to harm them, I just want to bounce back the negative energies they are trying to send to me.

3) Karma

I wonder though, if a spell is meant to work on that person, it WILL happen correct? If the spell didn't work, there is perhaps a karmic lesson I would need to learn. I do believe that if someone is protected by God or whoever, doesn't matter how many spells are cast, this person is protected. But if the person is meant to experience karma and justices, then yes, the spell that is cast /WILL work, please let me know if I am understanding this correctly.

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Re: Ethics: Moral Justification Before God, "Black Magic," Karma

Unread post by Devi Spring » Sun Sep 19, 2010 6:03 pm

Well, Seekinghelp123, karma is not part of hoodoo, so discussion of that is off-topic to this work. However it seems you are struggling with whether the work you are doing is justified or not -- and the ethical justification of one's work is indeed a concept discussed among practitioners of hoodoo.

A reading with an AIRR worker can really help you with that question.

Also, whether tricks work or not have many factors involved, not the least of which is the skill of the worker. Again, if you are in doubt as to whether you have a good chance to be successful or not, a reading can help determine that as well. You can also always hire a worker to work on your behalf so that you know you have a skilled practitioner working for your intent.

Plus, a reading and consultation will also help you develop the plan of attack that is most likely to be work.

You can find a long list of ethical and skilled workers at http://www.readersandrootworkers.org
Devi Spring: Reader & Rootworker - Proud AIRR member and HRCC Graduate.

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Re: Ethics: Moral Justification Before God, "Black Magic," Karma

Unread post by thelightfantastic » Sun Sep 19, 2010 7:02 pm

Seekinghelp123,

Devi Spring got it right - karma is a Hindu concept, and thus a new age concept. It is not a part of hoodoo. There are ethics involved in hoodoo, which is why it is important to get a reading before beginning any kind of work. A reading will tell you whether any kind of work is justified.

I'd also advise that you read up on the history of hoodoo and what it actually entails. If it's not for you, there's other forms of magic that will fit into your beliefs.
High praise to Saint Michael for his protection and guidance

DONE

Re: Ethics: Moral Justification Before God, "Black Magic," Karma

Unread post by DONE » Wed Apr 27, 2011 4:56 am

I figured I needed to take a gamble and ask this question.

I had a very sexual, yet somewhat romantic affair with my daughters father the past few months, and during that course of time, just for fun he caused trouble between my daughter and I. He blamed me for him not being around, and has even gone between us and told us lies with he say she say nonsense. I mean he told me my daughter thought I had mental issues.

Just recently I made the comment that I wanted to go back and practice safe sex, and for no reason at all except for him telling me that I was accusing him of something: he ended our affair, told me I'm crazy, told me to leave him alone, and is now not speaking to our child.

I sooo want to curse him for everything he has caused, and for the hurt and pain he has not only caused me, but also for the grief he's caused my daughter.

So my question is... If you curse your child mother/father, can that Hex or Curse be passed down to their off-springs? I certainly dont want my daughter nor her siblings cursed!

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Re: Ethics: Moral Justification Before God, "Black Magic," Karma

Unread post by starsinthesky7 » Wed Apr 27, 2011 7:19 am

DONE,

If your intention is not to pass it down to his off spring, then no...it will not be passed down.

To see if this is justified, you will need to get a reading done to see if actually cursing him is in the right or wrong.

But personally, I feel that he was simply a lover and not your significant other such as a boyfriend or a husband for a reason.I think you already knew this man was not a good man for you considering he was neither of the two. And I am sure this is not the first time he has thrown you under the bus. But you and him have sexual attraction towards each other which keeps you and him hanging on to each other. I am not sure why you didnt dump him after he was telling the lies between you and your daughter, and it seems he has never been there all the time for your daughter. It seems this need to want to curse has only come up because he has dumped you.

So with that said...good riddance to him. I would do a reversal on him, to reverse all the crap that he has done to you, and your daughter. And then you need to do a cut and clear so that you can move on from this man. Leave him alone already. And for your daughter, do a cleansing, and healing for her.

http://www.luckymojo.com/cutandclear.html
http://www.luckymojo.com/products-healing.html
http://www.luckymojo.com/reversing.html
http://www.luckymojo.com/products-reversing.html
http://www.luckymojo.com/uncrossing.html
Thank u St. Martha for everything you have done on my behalf.
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Re: Ethics: Moral Justification Before God, "Black Magic," Karma

Unread post by ConjureMan Ali » Wed Apr 27, 2011 12:32 pm

DONE,

Justification for this type of work comes with two important consideration: your ethical standards and the type of work you propose.

For example, would there be a conflict in your ethics if you decide to send this man to hell? Or would you feel within your rights if you reversed?

The way to understand this is by turning to God, or our higher power as that is the source of ethics. Therefore you can light a white candle, pray for guidance and go to bed. In the morning if you will have your answer. Either you'll get a go ahead, or you'll know that what you plan is unjustified.

If you'd like help with this process then starsinthesky already gave you the sage advice of seeking a reading.
ConjureMan Ali- Lucky Mojo Certified Graduate and Member of AIRR

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Re: Ethics: Moral Justification Before God, "Black Magic," Karma

Unread post by acvegas » Wed Apr 27, 2011 4:45 pm

Are your "Court Case" herbs formulas (found here: http://www.luckymojo.com/courtcase.html) considered "Black" magic or "White" magic????

Thanks :D

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Re: Ethics: Moral Justification Before God, "Black Magic," Karma

Unread post by jwmcclin » Wed Apr 27, 2011 11:17 pm

Dear acvegas,

When this question is asked, I refer people to cat's description found here (http://www.luckymojo.com/spells.html) also listed below...

White Magic spells are used to protect, bless, heal, and help yourself or those you care for. They can bless new ventures, help the mind and body, shield people and places from curses and hexes, turn back evil magic spells, reverse bad conditions, break jinxes, and help good dreams and wishes come true. White magic spells are all intended to be positive, uplifting, and gentle; they are never coercive.

Black Magic spells are used to bring about sickness and unnatural illness, break up love affairs, create crossed conditions, send enemies away, force people out of their jobs, wreak justified vengeance, destroy those who have laid tricks for you, attract wrathful spirits and demons to aid in hurting others, or curse and hex people to death. Black magic spells can be gentle or strong, suggestive or coercive; what makes them all black magic spells is that they have something to do with hurting, harming, goofering, jinxing, or hot footing enemies.
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Re: Ethics: Moral Justification Before God, "Black Magic," Karma

Unread post by catherineyronwode » Wed Apr 27, 2011 11:37 pm

Seekinghelp123 ,

Why post a long screed here telling us you feel bad about doing a kind of work that is entirely optional and that you need not do?

1) Vinegar Jar and Reversing Spell

Just don't do it.

No one here is gonna try to talk you into it, that's for sure.

2) Honey Jar

Just don't do it.

No one here is gonna try to talk you into it, that's for sure.

3) Karma

Karma is a Hindu philosophical term for cause and effect that, due to Hindu belief in reincarnation, tends to refer to cause and effect in which the effect can take place over a series of reincarnations or multiple lifetimes.

Hindu religion is not a part of hoodoo, since hoodoo is primarily Protestant Christian.

I don't think you should practice magic. It's not a good fit for your personality, your philosophy, or your ethical stance.

Good luck.

There is really nowhere for this conversation to go. You said your bit and we've said ours.
catherine yronwode

buzzbabe

Re: Ethics: Moral Justification Before God, "Black Magic," Karma

Unread post by buzzbabe » Thu Apr 28, 2011 1:11 pm

I have no problem doing dark work on persons who suffer antisocial personality disorders; some enjoy inflicting pain and suffering on others, and because of their disorder do not stop when they've taken things to a level where a normal person would stop because of their moral compose. I metioned on another thread about my problems with my current landlord, and if I had the money, I'd pay someone to do some seriously dark rootwork on him, it's the only way he'll leave me alone unless I move which i can't afford to do.

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Re: Ethics: Moral Justification Before God, "Black Magic," Karma

Unread post by LaMarquise » Fri May 06, 2011 1:58 pm

When I first "came over" to African-descended belief systems, I had a rather tough time myself getting rid of all the "karma" and "threefold law" ideas that had become like little voices scolding me in my brain. Actually, "Wiccan Guilt" isn't too different from "Catholic Guilt," that oft made fun of phenominon wherein Catholics are constantly convinced something they're doing is wrong, somehow. It's really just a matter of letting your rational mind overcome your fearful side.

That, and getting readings, guidance and advice from people who know your magical system well.
I thank Saints Michael, Dymphna, Cecilia, Joseph, Benedict, Mary, and Muerte for their aid.

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Re: Ethics: Moral Justification Before God, "Black Magic," Karma

Unread post by michaeldavis » Sun May 08, 2011 8:21 am

LaMarquise,

I agree.

You know, it is said that one of the modern uses of the "black mass" is to help shatter the chains of religious conditioning that may be preventing a person from doing what's necessary to grow. I'm not recommending this per se; though, I do think a lot of religious conditioning is put in place to stop magic from being practiced. Personally, I don't lay much stock in fear, guilt, and threefold payback. I have come across people who were protected / walled-off from workings, whether as a result of being inherently resistant to magic or protected by the divine.

Then again, if you can't work the person, you can work around the person. If you can't do that, most likely the obstacle is you.

Peace,

MD
Aligned with the highest Good, all works are Crowned with Success.

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Re: Ethics: Moral Justification Before God, "Black Magic," Karma

Unread post by LaMarquise » Mon May 09, 2011 9:53 am

There is indeed a LOT of cultural anti-magic conditioning. That being said, I enjoy practicing magic in the Protestant Christian framework of hoodoo. Whereas in Wicca there is this pervasive attitude of impending punishment if you step out of the religions' prescribed lines (VERY Catholic as well, I agree), in hoodoo they know that God will forgive you anything if you just ask for it. And that includes removing any "punishment" you may think you deserve.
I thank Saints Michael, Dymphna, Cecilia, Joseph, Benedict, Mary, and Muerte for their aid.

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Re: Ethics: Moral Justification Before God, "Black Magic," Karma

Unread post by ConjureMan Ali » Mon May 09, 2011 9:21 pm

Religion and magic are intimately tied together and the line between them is often rather blurred and fuzzy.
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Re: Ethics: Moral Justification Before God, "Black Magic," Karma

Unread post by michaeldavis » Fri May 13, 2011 12:04 pm

ConjureMan Ali wrote:Religion and magic are intimately tied together and the line between them is often rather blurred and fuzzy.


Agreed. It's when one seems to be at odds with the other that some deep thinking is required. It wouldn't hurt for some to ask whether they be better served by seeing a minister or priest of their religion and asking for intercession instead of engaging in magic.
Aligned with the highest Good, all works are Crowned with Success.

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Re: Ethics: Moral Justification Before God, "Black Magic," Karma

Unread post by Ellina » Sun Jun 26, 2011 6:46 pm

I have performed multiple spells, but they seem to result in the opposite of wHat I wanted. If it's a break up spell, they get married, a money stay with me, it doesn't, improve my relationships, I lose four, improve mother daughter relationship, she leaves me for a month, good luck spell, my car breaks down, revenge on two enemies, they do better than ever....what could be the reason? Have I been reversed or cursed? Ellina

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Re: Ethics: Moral Justification Before God, "Black Magic," Karma

Unread post by ConjureMan Ali » Sun Jun 26, 2011 7:45 pm

You may lack that ability needed to focus and direct the spiritual forces we call upon in our work, or may be facing severe crossed conditions. Seek out a reading.

In the meantime 13 herb bath and a regiment of cleansing and protection before anything else.
ConjureMan Ali- Lucky Mojo Certified Graduate and Member of AIRR

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Re: Ethics: Moral Justification Before God, "Black Magic," Karma

Unread post by JadedKarma » Fri Jul 01, 2011 8:02 am

I am a strong believer in Karma.

I have found myself in a delima that I really need some advice on. I will give you a high level back ground so you fully understand my situation.

Three years ago, my life was in complete turnoil, I can't even beging to describe all of the horrible things that were happening to me. I strongly believed that I was hexed, crossed, and had a single person causing me the majority of this grief. I do not believe in doing any spell that would harm someone as Karma would bring it back to me. This is why I chose to perform an unhexing spell, uncrossing spell, and I performed a reversal spell. These spells worked, and my life has been wonderful.

However, now the target of my return to sender spell is having tremendous problems with her son.

I did not do a spell to purposely cause harm, only to reverse what she is sending/doing to me. Karma is still coming back on me for this.

Now my daughter is involved with her son, and the problems her son is facing is now impacting my daughter.

My question is this... Can you undo a reversal spell? If I do this, will all the negativity come back on me again. What is the best way to correct this situation so that there is no more negativity to that family nor mine? Greatly appreciate any guidance or advice that can be given.

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Re: Ethics: Moral Justification Before God, "Black Magic," Karma

Unread post by jwmcclin » Fri Jul 01, 2011 9:23 am

JadedKarma, please read cat's discussion on this topic (fund here) ethics,-%22black-magic,%22-karma,-moral-justification-questions-t13051.html

...and to answer your question, scroll down this >>>>page http://www.luckymojo.com/uncrossing.html ...and read about reversible spells...
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Re: Ethics: Moral Justification Before God, "Black Magic," Karma

Unread post by Mama Micki » Fri Jul 01, 2011 9:32 am

Dear JadedKarma,

"Karma" is a concept from Eastern religions. Hoodoo originated with African-American Christians.
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Re: Ethics: Moral Justification Before God, "Black Magic," Karma

Unread post by Dr Johannes » Fri Aug 19, 2011 4:07 pm

JadedKarma,

All religions, as well as most folk magic traditions, have ways to release and cleanse things. If you are born into a certain religion, use the method that your culture has provided. For example you can go to a priest to get a confession if you can´t let it go or you can take a Hyssop bath.

Belief in "home-style" karma can put you into more trouble than old fashion Christian "sin", so I suggest you either stick to the ideas incorporated in the folk magic tradition you are practicing or stay away from spell casting.

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Re: Ethics: Moral Justification Before God, "Black Magic," Karma

Unread post by Joseph Magnuson » Sun Aug 21, 2011 12:25 pm

Well stated, Johannes.

JadedKarma: I wish you the best, but as your own chosen name has stated your feelings, I hope you can find peace.

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Re: Ethics: Moral Justification Before God, "Black Magic," Karma

Unread post by catherineyronwode » Sun Aug 21, 2011 4:56 pm

JadedKarma -- your views on karma aside (and, no, i do not believe as you do), you did ask a legitimate question:

"Can you undo a reversal or return to sender spell?"

Yes, you can. One way is to burn all of the remains of the spell you cast. If they were buried, dig them up first.

Another way is to wash them away in water.

Do not ask for specific spells in this thread. If you need spell help, please ask in an appropriate portion of the board. I have merely attempted to reply to your question about whether reversing a reversal spell is possible.
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Re: Ethics: Moral Justification Before God, "Black Magic," Karma

Unread post by Sensuous » Thu Dec 08, 2011 7:46 pm

I was recently told that when you are working a spell on someone, you shouldn't talk to or have any contact with them at all; Until the spell is complete/starts working.

Is this true? If so, why? (I'm just trying to understand)
Please explain

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Re: Ethics: Moral Justification Before God, "Black Magic," Karma

Unread post by Devi Spring » Fri Dec 09, 2011 7:30 am

No - that makes no sense. There may be a few situations where you don't want to have contact with the person, but that's not an across the board rule by any means.
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Re: Ethics: Moral Justification Before God, "Black Magic," Karma

Unread post by Dr Johannes » Fri Dec 09, 2011 4:23 pm

ellina wrote:I have performed multiple spells, but they seem to result in the opposite of wHat I wanted. If it's a break up spell, they get married, a money stay with me, it doesn't, improve my relationships, I lose four, improve mother daughter relationship, she leaves me for a month, good luck spell, my car breaks down, revenge on two enemies, they do better than ever....what could be the reason? Have I been reversed or cursed? Ellina


If your results are this consistent I suggest you try a spell with the opposite of what you desire. Start with something small.
If someon hung you upside down in a mirror box and prayed for all your spells to have the opposite results, this could be the result. And a thousand other things. As ConjuremanAli said; Get yourself a reading and get uncrossed.
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Re: Ethics: Moral Justification Before God, "Black Magic," Karma

Unread post by candlemagician » Sat Dec 10, 2011 2:19 am

This is rather sad, but often seen here.....I am sorry you are having these problems, but when people advise that you should start with a reading that is the BEST advice that can be given for so many reasons. First of them being are you crossed and able to do self help work that will work correctly for you and the intent you seek. Secondly, and something that shouldn't be underestimated is the person you are working ON "protected" in some way.... do they practice, are they doing work on you? Will you be able to do anything yourself, or will you need professional help to reach your goal.

these things are just a few of the answers a good reading can answer before you even start...It is never wise to go to a gun fight unarmed. Seek the BEST help from a member of AIRR before you start when you want the best result at the end.

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Re: Ethics: Moral Justification Before God, "Black Magic," Karma

Unread post by Joann Lee » Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:00 pm

A spell that works the way you want requires an undivided mind. If I can't completely commit, I just don't do it, or I try to rephrase the spell so that it is more lady-hearted.

In the past, I have done things where I wasn't 100%, and the candle(s) split in two and turned into two spells, one burning more brightly than the other. You can imagine the result!

Now I only do a spell if I can commit 100%
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Re: Ethics: Moral Justification Before God, "Black Magic," Karma

Unread post by CuriousKate » Sat Jan 07, 2012 3:10 am

Is there a spell to rid oneself of the karmic debt that might come back on you for a particular spell?

Say you did a spell to get someone you love back.

How would you break the bad karma from that spell?

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Re: Ethics: Moral Justification Before God, "Black Magic," Karma

Unread post by MaryBee » Sat Jan 07, 2012 5:27 am

CuriousKate,

There is no concept of "karma" in Hoodoo. Every practitioner must decide for themselves what is ethical. Some workers won't do coercive love spells. Some will do gambling spells but won't do break-up spells. The majority of Hoodoo practitioners were African-American Protestant Christians, so many of them will make ethical decisions based on that religion. Hoodoo is not a religion, but a spiritual practice that lets the practitioners be any religion they choose.

If you were doing a love spell to get someone you love to come back to you, there is nothing there that suggests the magic is of a crossing, jinxing or hurtful nature. You would just do the spell to get the guy back and wait for results. Now, let's say this person you love is currently dating someone else. You could do a Break Up or Separation spell on those two to break them up so he'll be single and available for you, and *those* spells are considered enemy tricks. You would have to cleanse yourself after performing the spell to cleanse yourself from sin. The traditional way to do this is taking a bath in Hyssop tea and reciting the 51st Psalm.

In short, "karma" is a concept found in Eastern religions like Buddhism. It doesn't exist in Hoodoo. You have to make ethical decisions in another way.

Good luck,
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Re: Ethics: Moral Justification Before God, "Black Magic," Karma

Unread post by aura » Sat Jan 07, 2012 5:58 am

The following forum thread covers the topic in detail: ethics,-"black-magic,"-karma,-moral-justification-questions-t13051.html - take the time to read through it, although Mary Bee pretty well sums it up ;)
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Re: Ethics: Moral Justification Before God, "Black Magic," Karma

Unread post by catherineyronwode » Sat Jan 07, 2012 10:08 am

I'm merging this thread into the one that aura cited. Thanks, Aura!
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Re: Ethics: Moral Justification Before God, "Black Magic," Karma

Unread post by Luckbewithme876 » Thu Jan 12, 2012 2:34 pm

I'm a Christian and I try to live by that though I admittedly often slip up with that. But because of that there are certain taboos I personally have when doing magic, though I wouldn't try and force it on others of course.

1. I won't (or at least I hope I don't end up doing) do things like crossing or break up spells. I personally don't find this to morally justifiable and that's one of the things that I like about Wicca. Reversals however is different imo since it's only sending what evil the person has already performed back at them.
2. I don't like to turn to other gods when using magic. Saints, Biblical heroes and angels are different but the key in my mind is that they're not acting of themselves but instead are personally doing God's will.
3. I used to have hang ups on love spells but then someone on here wisely explained that it's basically like trying to flirt with someone in the normal way, since if it's not meant to happen then it won't happen anyways.
4. I also would perform a divination beforehand to see if anything I'm iffy on is justifiable or not.
5. Necromancy is also something I wouldn't be willing to do since the Bible speaks against calling up and speaking to the dead.

Like I said I wouldn't think to force it on other people but if I were giving advice then I'd urge people to consider the moral implications because like you all have said ethics are a part of Hoodoo even if there's no concept of Karma.
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Re: Ethics: Moral Justification Before God, "Black Magic," Karma

Unread post by Jibrael » Wed Jan 18, 2012 3:49 pm

I come from a Christian background where anything remotely approaching magic was forbidden in the strongest possible terms. Once I started practicing magic as a pagan, it seemed like I had to make a clear break between the two. Hoodoo has been very helpful in enabling me to bridge the gap between the faith of my childhood and my current faith. The ethics issue is an example.

As a new pagan, I was taught the "Rule of Three" and that "no real witch" would do any magic that impeded on another's free will. The problem is that those statements don't hold logically. Why 3 times? Why, if no "real witch" curses, are most historical documents of witchcraft filled with such things? So this is illogical from the get-go, if you think about it.

My paganism led me to Vodou, which led me to Hoodoo. One thing I learned was that these paricular African-derived systems emerge out of the poorest of the poor, and the most oppressed of the oppressed. This magic comes from a culture that could not trust the law, and in which breaking "taboos" wasoften necessary just to survive (prostitution and gambling come to mind). That alone shattered the divide in my mind between "white" and "black" magic. (And don't get me started on how racist the origin of those expressions are!)

So, as a pagan, I see no reason to get hung up on arguing over such things. Usually, making someone love you who doesn't, or hexing out of pure anger, just aren't good ideas. But the fact that they are often bad ideas doesn't make them intrinsically bad acts. In fact, a good crossing or break up may be the best course in certain cases.

Which gets me back to the Bible, in which the righteous frequently curse their enemies (especially in the Psalms). I now see no contradiction between Scripture and working magic of any kind. Joel 3:1, 2 says that the spirit of God would be poured out on all people, enabling prophecy and works of wonder. And Jesus said those in union with Him would do even greater works than he did (John 14:12). Another text says we are surrounded by "a great crowd of witnesses in Heaven" ( Hebrews 12:1) that are on our side, and isn't that basically what saint-work is all about (or working with the dead in general)?

I've probably rambled on too much, but it was helpful to write this down. Hoodoo has given me, in my opinion, a more balanced view of magical ethic overall, and continues to show me new and deeper ways to honor my Christian family traditions and my current pagan faith.
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Re: Ethics: Moral Justification Before God, "Black Magic," Karma

Unread post by Lee Canipe » Wed Jan 18, 2012 4:21 pm

Jibrael wrote:I come from a Christian background where anything remotely approaching magic was forbidden in the strongest possible terms.


I've heard people mention things like this before and it is so bizarre to me! I come from a place where folk magic is so intertwined with Christianity that I cannot separate the two. Some of the most powerful rootworkers in my town are preachers & deacons in the church (I'm a deacon in the church!). Now, there are some bible thumpers around who reject conjure, but they are not the majority by far.

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Re: Ethics: Moral Justification Before God, "Black Magic," Karma

Unread post by Southernmom » Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:33 pm

Same here, Lee! Granted, my grandmother ragingly covers what she was taught and her folk magic beliefs with a whole lotta 'Mama said' and 'The Bible says, therefore...' it is still so intertwined ya can't tell the two apart most times.
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Re: Ethics: Moral Justification Before God, "Black Magic," Karma

Unread post by candlemagician » Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:51 am

Those "bible thumpers" have a very small view of the world, life and of course anything to do with Spiritual matters. In their view the "Only" way to do things is the way they do them, look at them, or they have been taught. The better way is simply reject and walk away from those ways of incorrect and unhealthy thinking. Try to correct and help them when and where you can...... but mostly it is waste of time and effort and most of all a drain on yourself, your power, energy and spiritual strength.

It seems to me giving over all your choice, and power to others beliefs is a coop out. One used by people who lack any will, or control of their own lives and destiny.

Ms. Cat, & the Lucky Mojo "family" are about empowering each of us. to take that control back and use it to create what we desire most. That to me is a REAL Gift.

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Re: Ethics: Moral Justification Before God, "Black Magic," Karma

Unread post by Mama Micki » Thu Jan 19, 2012 12:38 pm

Many people want power over others, and use religion to accomplish their goals, because so many will not think for themselves. This is true in almost every spiritual community, not just Christianity or any particular denomination. It is human nature to want some type of authority figure to look up to, and some take advantage of that.

Personally, I listen to people from many faith backgrounds, as well as study the Bible and other spiritual books for myself, then make up my own mind.
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Re: Ethics: Moral Justification Before God, "Black Magic," Karma

Unread post by Luckbewithme876 » Fri Jan 20, 2012 4:29 am

^So true. It's very sad to see how people try so hard to abuse their faith to try and exert control over other people. Real religion is about recieving power over one's own life through the help of a loving deity, not trying to abuse others.

Jibrael wrote:Which gets me back to the Bible, in which the righteous frequently curse their enemies (especially in the Psalms). I now see no contradiction between Scripture and working magic of any kind. Joel 3:1, 2 says that the spirit of God would be poured out on all people, enabling prophecy and works of wonder. And Jesus said those in union with Him would do even greater works than he did (John 14:12). Another text says we are surrounded by "a great crowd of witnesses in Heaven" ( Hebrews 12:1) that are on our side, and isn't that basically what saint-work is all about (or working with the dead in general)?


This so much! I used to feel conflicted and thinking that magic and spirituality were anti-thetical to each other but now I think it's just the opposite. I really like what you said about the Bible itself saying that people can and will perform wonders and miracles and that's part of the lore of Hoodoo. And I also really agree with what you said about Saint work. I believe something similar to that and it's also similar to the ancestor veneration of pagan practices.

Basically what's I started looking into magic for real and not just research for creative writing I feel like God's given me a way to give me power back over my own life.
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Re: Ethics: Moral Justification Before God, "Black Magic," Karma

Unread post by drjumba » Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:40 pm

Spells are just what you want them to be. if you wish to cast a spell that will affect someone negatively, thats what it will do and ikf you cast one that you want to affect someone postively, thats what you will get.
Spells are never harmfull if not intended to be.
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Re: Ethics: Moral Justification Before God, "Black Magic," Karma

Unread post by smokey08 » Thu Jan 26, 2012 12:15 am

So I like reading about magic. I truely believe in it. But just being curious:

I'm catholic and I want to practice dark magic like black magic.

But if I preformed black magic or had it done for me, is that meaning I'm worshiping the devil and will go to hell?

I mean I'm very curious and I want to try something new.

candlemagician

Re: Ethics: Moral Justification Before God, "Black Magic," Karma

Unread post by candlemagician » Thu Jan 26, 2012 2:40 am

smokey08,

This Forum is about Lucky Mojo, and their Products. Not a place to discuss religion.

I hope you find the answers you seek.

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Re: Ethics: Moral Justification Before God, "Black Magic," Karma

Unread post by aura » Thu Jan 26, 2012 5:49 am

Hi smokey08,

if you read through the following thread you may get some of the answers you're looking for: ethics,-%22black-magic,%22-karma,-moral-justification-questions-t13051.html

That said, if you're thinking hoodoo is about worshiping the Devil and going to hell:

1 - You haven't read most of the free pages Miss Cat has so wonderfully made available to all. Start by reading through these two which should clear up a part of your confusion: http://www.luckymojo.com/hoodoohistory.html; http://www.luckymojo.com/crossroads.html

2 - If you have read the pages and the above is still what you think: DON'T PRACTICE MAGIC, it isn't any more complicated than that. No one is pulling your rubber arm with a bottle of condition oil and a Vigil light! Nor is magic there simply so you can ''try something new''. I'm Catholic and feel no guilt about the work I perform: I also don't do any crossing work and that's a personal choice that some workers make. Others live quite well with darker work if it is justified in the eyes of God. Your own level of personal OK-ness with different types of work is something you'll have to understand on your own and isn't something another person can give you absolution for.

3 - Consider working with King Solomon Wisdom (http://www.luckymojo.com/kingsolomonwisdom.html) and Clarity (http://www.luckymojo.com/oil-clarity.html) products while you explore the issue to help gain some insight that will help you move forward.

Best of luck.
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Re: Ethics: Moral Justification Before God, "Black Magic," Karma

Unread post by smokey08 » Thu Jan 26, 2012 7:46 pm

Thank you! Ill be sure to read those pages. So I can clear up my confusion

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Re: Ethics: Moral Justification Before God, "Black Magic," Karma

Unread post by Joseph Magnuson » Thu Jan 26, 2012 8:34 pm

I merged these posts so that everyone can read these threads all in one place. Thank you.
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Re: Ethics: Moral Justification Before God, "Black Magic," Karma

Unread post by drjumba » Sat Jan 28, 2012 2:23 am

hello candlemagician i understand this forum might be about Lucky Mojo like you said but that does not stop us from giving if we realy are givers.

People are looking for help from any where they can get it and they dont care as long as you give them that you could give.

thank you
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Re: Ethics: Moral Justification Before God, "Black Magic," Karma

Unread post by Luckbewithme876 » Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:30 pm

Hi CuriousKate,

http://www.luckymojo.com/crossing.html
This link does a great job of explaining what to do in this situation. Taking a bath with Hyssop and Rue is the usual method to "cleanse" yourself after doing bad work. In the future however, I think you might want to do a divining to see if your working is justified or not if you don't want this streak of bad luck to happen again.

Good luck.
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