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Hoodoo & Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

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Miss Phoenix
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Re: Hoodoo & Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by Miss Phoenix » Sun Sep 29, 2013 9:07 am

As a very open Pagan who practices Hoodoo and has a deep love and respect for its history and traditions, I feel compelled to add that Hoodoo is (at its core) a folk magic tradition and not a religious tradition. The originators of this magical system were converted to Christianity (often violently) and the magical processes developed as a means to connect to the magical histories of where they came from. In modern times Hoodoo has evolved into a tradition that calls on Jesus and various Saints, but this also varies from practitioner to practitioner and you will find many Hoodoo doctors who call on the Hindu deities (and other deities), which weren't part of the original system.

I think the concerns here are about picking and choosing, as if Hoodoo is a product on the shelf in a magical grocery store. (Just grab a dash of Crowley, a pinch of Wicca, some Santeria, and a splash of Hoodoo....NO!). In order to truly understand the system and traditions of Hoodoo you have to immerse yourself in it, study it, PRACTICE it, and if you aren't willing to take the time to do that, and come into some kind of relationship with Christianity, then you aren't being true to the roots and history of Hoodoo.

You will find many traditional Pagan and Wiccan systems who ask you to do the same thing. While studying and learning their flavor of magic they ask that you not mix systems or traditions. If you study more than one tradition (which I have and do), give each tradition the respect of working with it solely, digging into it, and finding out how and why it works the way that it does.

You will be a much more powerful and well rounded practitioner for doing so.

Best of luck!
Miss Phoenix
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Re: Hoodoo & Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by Wunderplop » Mon Oct 07, 2013 8:07 am

So I am just coming across Chango in my practice of Santeria / Lukumi and was wondering if anybody could guide me a bit in how to set up an alter and work with him.

I have been setting up little alters and offerings and working with my favorite dieties lately, starting with baron semedi. Which seems to be the way to go about it. Anyhow, I heard a story about a hollywood movie producer who used a special alter setup for Chango.

I'm interested because I believe my goals are somewhat similar. Sexual magnatism and power, fame and fortune sort of goals. Mine are mainly in the music business, but I believe Chango can help.

Thanks you in advance,

C

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Re: Hoodoo & Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by Miss Aida » Mon Oct 07, 2013 11:15 am

Hello, Wunderplop,
Chango (Kabiesile) is a fantastic Orisha!!!
Here is a page for you to explore: http://www.luckymojo.com/chango.html
You can also go to the search engine (upper right) and in the white search box, write: Saint Babara (the syncretism for Chango (Kabiesile) )
Hope this helps!
Take care!

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Re: Hoodoo & Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by poeticone » Mon Oct 07, 2013 11:41 am

If you want to work with Chango, I highly recommend talking to Lou Florez of AIRR - he has helped me very much in this specific area.

Good luck!

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Re: Hoodoo & Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by MaryBee » Tue Oct 08, 2013 6:12 am

This is a forum dedicated to the discussion of African American Hoodoo and Lucky Mojo products. Lucky Mojo does sell Chango products:

http://luckymojo.com/chango.html

and they are available for purchase to help honor this orisha.

However, this is not a forum to discuss African Traditional Religions such as Santeria/Lukumi, Vodou or others. Please take this discussion to private email. Several of our AIRR practitioners are initiates in these traditions and they can help you privately. This thread is now locked.
**********
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Re: Hoodoo & Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by catherineyronwode » Sun Apr 20, 2014 1:40 pm

Missionary Independent Spiritual Church is proud to announce the publication of :Hoodoo Bible Magicc: Sacred Secrets of Scriptural Sorcery" by Miss Michaele and Professor Charles Porterfield.

BOO-GRI-HBIM
Hoodoo Bible Magic; Miss Michaele, Prof. Porterfield
$9.00

Image

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You can order right here in the Forum by clicking on the blue Add To Cart button.

http://www.luckymojo.com/hoodoo-bible-magic.html
catherine yronwode

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Re: Hoodoo & Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by Shantilly Lace » Sun Jun 01, 2014 11:39 pm

I have a friend and her life has gone down hill a little. I did a reading for her and things are meant to improve but she mentioned that her SIL has threatened them with "voodoo".

Now for a start she's Catholic, so that promptly crossed 'voodoo' off the list as voodoo is a religion in itself. But I don't know whether it's hoodoo either or whether she is bastardising something or if she is just big noting herself to make herself more important.
This woman is very nasty. Not nice at all.

She has a few beliefs (she comes from the Phillipines so it may be something cultural there) but 2 of them are

1) you are never allowed to take a picture of a sleeping baby

2) after birth you can't wash for a month otherwise you allow for evil spirits to enter the body.

I will do another reading and see what can be done to help. But i was just curious if either of these two rang a bell?

Thanks.

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Re: Hoodoo & Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by Miss Aida » Mon Jun 02, 2014 9:26 pm

Hello, Shantilly Lace,
Well, I looked it up and found that many cultures believe that one ought not take a picture of a sleeping baby. Most prevalent was this custom in India.
The other one I couldn't find. I never heard of this in Santeria. BUT I do remember seeing something on the History channel about this custom in some parts of ancient Israel, in Judaism.
Please send me a PM if you find out more about these customs.
Interesting.
thanks!

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Re: Hoodoo & Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by Godisgood-191 » Thu Mar 26, 2015 7:09 pm

Hello; I pray every day all day. I just sometimes pray to say Thank you for waking up, breathing the air, the food and all things some people fail to see as a blessing. Crazy thing happen I always pray psalms 23 everyday. My bible is always opened to psalms 23 and I looked on my altar and my bible was on psalms 73. I took it as a sign to pray it. I truly believe I pray because it makes me feel good. Regardless of one's belief I feel if we don't have faith nothing we do will be successful.

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Re: Hoodoo & Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by Miss Aida » Thu Mar 26, 2015 9:34 pm

Hello, Godisgood-191,

That's beautiful!!

Take care

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Re: Hoodoo & Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by Rev Ernest » Fri Apr 17, 2015 3:24 pm

Lucky Mojo is proud to announce the publication of a new book by Miss Phoenix LeFae,
In "Hoodoo Shrines and Altars," Miss Phoenix instructs the reader in the construction of suitable
Hoodoo Alars.

The book will debut at the 8th Annual Hoodoo Heritage Festival in Forestville, California,
May 16th-17th, 2015, and a copy will be included in the admission package for the event, because
Miss Phoenix will be teaching a workshop on how to do this work. We are taking pre-orders now.
"Hoodoo Shrines and Altars" ships on May 18, 2015. Pre-ordered copies will be signed
by the author.

BOO-FLS-HSAA
Hoodoo Shrines and Altars by Miss Phoenix LeFae
$9.00

Image

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You can order right here in the Forum by clicking on the blue Add To Cart button.

Contents

Dedication and Acknowledgements 4
Altars of the Ancestors
Hoodoo: A Brief Introduction 5
How Do We Know About Hoodoo Altars? 6
Altar Described by Newbell Niles Puckett 8
Altars Described by Zora Neale Hurston 9
Altars Described by Harry M. Hyatt 10
You Shall Build There an Altar
Definition of Altars 14
Basic Types of Altars 16
Altar Work or Just Work? 19
Altars for What Purpose? 20
Building the Altar 21
One Altar or Many 25
Practical Altar Tips 26
Altar Objects 27
Magical and Spiritual Correspondences 37
Preparing the Altar Space 41
Keeping Your Altar Clean 42
Altars for Ongoing Work 47
Cat Yronwode's Secrets of Altar Respect 48
Altars for Various Conditions
Altars for Love 51
Altars for Money 52
Altars for Healing 53
Altars for Protection 54
Altars for Justified Enemy Works 55
Altars for Cursing and Vengeance 56
Dedicated Shrines
Altars for Ancestors 57
Shrines for Catholic Saints 59
Making Offerings to Spirits 60
Unusual Altars
Travelling Altars 65
Pocket Shrines 63
Hidden Altars 66
Business and Office Altars 69
Candle Ministry Altars 72
Frequently Asked Questions 78
Rev. Ernest, MISC Deacon -- Facebook Fridays! Sweepstakes Admin -- Online Catalogue Team at LMCCo

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Re: Hoodoo & Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by Cthulha » Sat Jun 27, 2015 9:28 pm

I was reading an article recently which stated that in old times, accused witches would be shaved of all of their body hair to search for the devils mark and stripped of magical power. This was done during the Roman Catholic Inquisition.

Does this mean that preserving ones body hair is an enhancement of power?

What is a hoodoo stance on body hair, male or female?

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Re: Hoodoo & Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by Miss Athena » Sat Jun 27, 2015 9:47 pm

Hi Ctulha,

As far as I know, there is no stance on body hair in hoodoo. In the future, please try to keep your questions related to Lucky Mojo products as this forum is for the use of them. Thank you.
HRCC #1909G

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Re: Hoodoo & Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by the9minds » Sat Aug 27, 2016 7:14 pm

:D

Thank you again for all your suggestions. I'm delving deep! I'm noticing in my studies a total shift in "hoodoo" from the, maybe 1900s/late 1800s to the 20s and 30s when practicing healing work / conjure was made illegal. It's very, very, VERY interesting. The distinction that licensed root workers made between themselves and "unlicensed" healers- the clientele, the approach to their work, the shortcuts, the inclusion of other "outside" influences/doctrines has contributed to what African American tradition rootwork morphed into up until the modern times. I hear all the time that "hoodoo" isn't a religion, but I ask myself, when did it happen that traditional healing practice and use of spirit didn't qualify as a religion to black people in America? Who started that narrative, and who is challenging it?

I feel like "hoodoo" or African American rootwork is (or was, before it became illegal to "practice without a license", which led to a whole domino effect of influences and issues) as much a religion as Voodoo in Haiti, or Candomble in Brazil, or Santeria in Cuba. I think the oral tradition just got so convoluted along the way. I know I have so much more to learn before I draw conclusions. But your list really helped me find out more to qualify my theory.

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Re: Hoodoo & Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by catherineyronwode » Sun Aug 28, 2016 6:35 pm

the 9minds,

The idea of practicing without a license -- the rise of the monopoly of the American Medical Association -- affected many more people than African Americans. It also restricted the traditions of the white yarb doctors of the Ozarks, the granny doctors of the Appalachians, and the Curanderos of South Texas.

As for hoodoo "morphing" -- that is not in line with historical documents. I suggest you consider that society as a whole changed greatly from the Civil War through World War One, then again greatly from World War One through World War Two, then again greatly from World War Two through the Viet Nam War, then again greatly with the endless string of Gulf / Iraq / Afghanistan wars now in progress. Likewise, technology changes -- rail travel, running water, electricity, automobile transport, typewriters, household electrical appliances, airplane transport, pesticides, antibiotics, atomic fission, human overpopulation, habitat eradication, outer space exploration, transistors, computers, digitization, the global internet -- all have affected not just hoodoo, but our entire world. Yet hoodoo remains very stable, more stable than many other forms of folk magic.

As for religion -- To say that hoodoo is not a religion is not a "narrative." It is just what is. Hoodoo has no clergy, no laity, no liturgical order of services, no forms of initiation or sacralization of entrants, no unique forms of worship, no unique forms of holding meetings, no unique holidays, no unique creed or set of beliefs, no agreed upon doctrines, and no unique deity or pantheon of deities. It requires no contributions or sacrifices to be given by or collected from the laity and bestowed upon the priesthood, since there is no clergy. It does not pronounce taboos on any foods nor on any forms of marriage. It has no scripture, either oral or written. It has no program of education for the young or for clerical aspirants, such as a Sunday school, madrassa, seminary, dojo, or yeshiva.

The products used in hoodoo folk magic are either natural herbs, roots, and minerals or they are, for the most part, formulas with secular and descriptive names (such as Hot Foot, Stay With Me, or Money Drawing). The few with names that contain religious allusions (such King Solomon Wisdom, Moses, Rose of Crucifixion) are almost all Judeo-Christian in nature. This is because most hoodoo practitioners have been and are Christian (as are most yarb doctors, granny doctors, and curanderos).

It is disrespectful to hoodoo's elders and ancestors to claim that that their belief in the power of the Bible is inauthentic or consists of an imposed "narrative." Who are you to claim that they do not or did not know their own culture, their own traditions, or their own minds?

Image

This photo, taken by Gordon Parks in 1942, shows the vanity-top altar of a Christian Spiritualist and practitioner, Ella May Watson of Washington, DC. This is HER narrative. In the mirror you can see her two grandchildren playing on the bed. The altar consists of an open Bible, several candles, two lucky trunk-up elephants, and several statues, including the Virgin Mary and Catholic saints (of whom one is Martin De Porres, the first Black man canonized by the Catholic Church). Ms. Watson's church was Saint Martin's Spiritualist Church; a Christian (but not Catholic) church. You can look up photos of it online.

Please take time to study source materials, since the older people are no longer with us. You recently joined the forum and told me that you did not know the names of any root doctors except for Aunt Caroline Dye and Marie Laveau, and asked me to produce such a list of names. I did so, and less than a week later you have returned to inform me that someone unknown to both of us imposed a "narrative" on hoodoo to conceal the fact that it is a religion.

Let me ask you the same question i ask everyone who brings me this line of theory:

If hoodoo is a religion, who is the hoodoo deity or pantheon of deities?

Or, to put it another way, if hoodoo's deity is not the Lord God of Hosts, in either Unitarian or Trinitarian form, then why do so many practitioners pray the Psalms and speak to Jesus?

If there's another God -- who is he?
catherine yronwode

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Re: Hoodoo & Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by the9minds » Mon Aug 29, 2016 3:11 pm

Peace,

Thank you for challenging my theory. It is not a statement of expertise, but an idea based on source materials that I'll name and note below. I have been studying diasporic religions for a while, and largely ignored hoodoo because of its place among those since everyone asserts that it has no system or does not qualify as a religion. Religion by definition is a system of faith and worship of a god. Based on your response, I gather that no account was taken for the fact that African slaves brought to America were made Christians by brute force, so I have no argument for "why so many practitioners pray the Psalms and speak to Jesus." They had no choice. I don't need hoodoo to be a religion, and I don't need it to have a system for it to be legitimate to me. It stands strong alone. At the heart of my question is the idea that before slaves were killed for believing in anything other than jesus, and before free slaves were jailed or fined or killed for practicing without a license, they had a system or organization of thought and practice that has been lost. I do take into account the "other" influence on its practice that has "morphed" it into the commodity it became at the turn of the 20th century.

Again, I didn't mean to offend you or make you feel defensive. I'm just searching for the root of hoodoo as it was brought by Kongo/Nigeria (primarily) Africans and early on, amalgamated with Native American and European spiritual traditions, and Christianity.

Spiritual Merchants: Religion, Magic, and Commerce, Carolyn Morrow Long
The retention of African beliefs was based on the ratio of whites to blacks, the number of slaves born in Africa relative to those born in the colonies, and the degree of supervision by masters and overseers. In Haiti, Cuba, and Brazil, the agricultural and mining crops required so much work that slaves lived an average of 10 years, and a new shipment of slaves had to be brought in rather frequently. Slaves greatly outnumbered masters and overseers, so cultural retention was much "easier." In the U.S., generational conditioning was much more prominent.

Hoodoo, Conjuration, Witchcraft, Rootwork, Harry M. Hyatt
(The following) comments are important indicators of how, in the early 20th century, urban hoodoo was evolving from a compendium of surviving African magical beliefs and practices to the multi-cultural magical and metaphysical system it is today.
Madam Wiley, Memphis TN "My trade is white; I don't need no nigger trade." **This illustrates the shift from a spiritual practice or system to a commodity**
Myrtle Collins, Memphis TN "Memphis is overrun with false pretenders... out walkin the streets knockin on doors. The real doctors of this city get cooperation from the white business people, because they the ones who need them." Myrtle Collins had a special altar room where she wore a white satin robe and white cap to keep her hair from turning grey that she ordered from AMORC/The White Brotherhood in San Jose, CA (she was told that she had to return it to them to wash for a fee bc it had been blessed).

I really appreciate your input, because it helps me go further and farther into the deeper history of hoodoo. I have no answers, only many questions. Without an African ancestral link, the practice of the work becomes something other than Hoodoo, and I'm interested in finding out more about the systems and practice rooted there. Thank you again! Your site is EVERYTHING!

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Re: Hoodoo & Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by catherineyronwode » Thu Sep 01, 2016 11:43 pm

the9minds ,

The first mentions of African folk magic practices under the name of hoodoo date to the 19th century. It is this era -- the known era of hoodoo, from the 19th century to the present, not an unknown past -- that is the topic here.

To make an analogy: This is the study of tap dance in America, from the early days of ragtime through to the present; it is not the study of the religious dances of Central Africa before the introduction of footwear with metal taps and milled lumber floors. Yes, tap incorporates many African elements -- but it is danced by people wearing European-style tap shoes, on European-style milled lumber floors. Don't disrespect tap because it is not an African religious ritual dance. Dig it for what it is -- an African American art form.

Like Swedes who criticize Swedish trolldom (folk magic) because it barely retains any mentions of the Norse deities and is 99% the practice of Christians, you are arriving hundreds of years too late to the party. Trolldom -- like Sweden -- has been Christian for a thousand years. Hoodoo has been Christian as long as we have any records of it.

This has nothing to do with urbanization.

i find it bad form to disrespect the elders and past practitioners of hoodoo for being Christians. The thing is -- they were.

As far as fakers and frauds -- that is not a product of urbanization. There have been fakers and frauds among the practitioners of the folk magic of all cultures for millennia. Also fraudulent cheese makers, horse traders, and hotel keepers. Also fraudulent bankers, roofing contractors, and priests. Fraud and fakery are so widespread in every locale, time period, and trade that to take the statements made by professional rootworkers to Hyatt as an indication of some sort of sea-change in hoodoo is naive.

I do not get your point about Madame Wiley and Myrtle Collins. They were answering Harry Hyatt's interview questions about their professional practices and their careers. Of course they earned a living as root doctors. So did others before them.

This does not "illustrate the shift from a spiritual practice or system to a commodity." A commodity is an object. The practice of folk magic has always been a trade, a line of work, or an occupation, like being a cook, a musician, a stencil-cutter, a bone-setter, or a seamstress. An occupation is not a commodity.

com·mod·i·ty: a raw material or primary agricultural product that can be bought and sold, such as copper or coffee. synonyms: item, material, product, article, object.

trade: An occupation, especially one requiring skilled labor; craft: e.g. the building trades.

oc·cu·pa·tion: a job or profession. synonyms: job, profession, work, line of work, trade, employment, position, post, situation, business, career, field, métier, vocation, calling, craft.

Finally, regarding your perceived shift in hoodoo from 1900 to 1930 in which "commodities" suddenly played a role -- i don't buy it. Look at this newspaper article from 1900, which i archived at my southern-spirits primary sources site; here "hoodoo" means both a run of bad luck and an object (like a mojo hand), and note that the entire account concerns events that have taken place in an African American Baptist church in New Jersey:

http://www.southern-spirits.com/anon-ba ... rt-nj.html
catherine yronwode

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Re: Hoodoo & Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by the9minds » Fri Sep 02, 2016 7:47 am

By definition, a commodity is also a "useful or valuable thing- such as water or time, or ideas." So I think in that context, hoodoo/conjure/rootwork applies as a commodity that can now be bought, sold, and has much usefulness, as Myrtle Collins and Madame Wiley pointed out. I never called them fakers or frauds, that was a direct quote from Myrtle Collins. There were quotation marks around direct quotes.

Was that article written by a member of the hoodoo community or an "other" or "outsider" who observed the culture for a short while to complete their article? Based on the way it was written, I would assume so.

We can respectfully agree to disagree, because I tend to keep diasporic happenings in their full context. Hoodoo is Christian because slaves had no choice in the matter, and if they had been allowed to call on the names of Chango, Yomonja, Oya, and many more names we don't have access to due to the U.S. slavery religious conditioning process, those names wouldn't be lost. Tap dance resembles West African dance (I participated in both for many years), and most researchers don't attempt to separate, but understand how cultural characteristics pass down lineages even when those lineages are broken due to various factors (in this instance, chattel slavery).

One of the most powerful tools in hoodoo is High John the Conqueror root, and that alone shows the longing for a strength and connection to an African past that slaves wanted on a very deep and intrinsic level. So I'm not buying that hoodoo is "just Christian" and it's that simple. Nor am I disrespecting my Christian elders who had no choice in being Christian. I'm attempting to understand how they brought Africa to Christianity and what ways they were interested in retaining as much of their African-ness as they were allowed to. Nothing dealing with that many years of spiritual, psychological, mental, and physical conditioning is just that simple. To reduce it to that is what I find disrespectful. I have to put it in its whole context because it deserves that much study and understanding to me.

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Re: Hoodoo & Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by catherineyronwode » Fri Sep 02, 2016 9:32 pm

Even during the era of slavery, employing a root doctor was a transactional event. The commodity that was a medium of exchange between rootworker and client may not have been coinage, but food, labour, alcohol, clothing, or any such thing.

The New York Times article from 1900 was written by an uncredited journalist. One would need to do some deep research to find out who was employed as a New Jersey stringer at that time.

Interesting that my example of tap dance is something you can relate to personally. I would not necessarily call tap a "broken" lineage, however -- something was added, after all; the European shoes, the Irish clog and jig. I do not believe that this diminishes the African basis of tap, any more that losing an entire herbal materia magica after imposed transport to the Americas has caused hoodoo to be unrecognizable as African. Where we differ is that i supply and serve a community that has been in America for hundreds of years and whose legends and lore now incorporate Native American, Jewish, and European Christian traditions. I am not the one to tell anyone to go "back to Africa," because i deal with practitioners here, and have never been there.

As for Christian hoodooists having no choice but to be Christians, i must disagree. Choices were limited in the 19th century, but i am 69 years old and i have seen decades of Black Americans having many choices in religion -- and taking those choices, from the 1940s through now (and many of those choices existed before my birth): Moorish Science Temple, El Rukn Moorish Science Temple, Nation of Islam, Sunni Islam, United Nuwaubian Nation of Moors, Washitaw Nation, Black Hebrew Israelites, Commandment Keepers, Judaism, Rastafari, African Theological Archministry, Bahá'í, Spiritualism, Spiritism, Kemetism, Ausar Auset Society, Church of Religious Science, Theosophy, Vedanta, Rosicrucianism, Neo-Paganism, Buddhism, Santeria, Ocha, Ifa, Lucumi, Palo Mayombe, Palo Brillumba, Palo Monte, Palo Kimbisa, Vodoun, 21 Divisions, Dianetics, Scientology -- i know and have known American Black people in all of these religions. Not all practiced hoodoo, but some surely did or do, and even those who eschew the practice of folk magic will acknowledge its existence.
catherine yronwode

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Re: Hoodoo & Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by greenbean1 » Sun Nov 06, 2016 9:11 pm

Good evening, everyone! First, I hope I'm posting in the right area. For being what is commonly referred to as a "millennial", I'm not very tech-savvy. Many apologies if I have somehow placed myself in the wrong thread.

Just going to jump right in and get to the meat of my post:

Right now, I consider myself a secular witch. I'm of Irish descent, third or fourth generation straight from Ireland. I like to think that much of what I practice stems from my own heritage, but I'm sure that there are things from other cultures incorporated in what knowledge I have. I don't believe in the polytheistic views of my ancestors, but I don't find my beliefs in line with that of any specific religion. I do, however, believe in one specific higher power. I believe in a main creator of sorts.

I'm here today because I am drawn to hoodoo. A large part of me needs to learn about it, wants to practice it, but I know that:

a) it is not my culture and

b) I'm not comfortable practicing hoodoo because I feel I'd be appropriating; picking what I want to use and leaving behind what makes up hoodoo as a whole. I'm not okay with that. That's not the kind of person I am. I feel like if I cannot commit to the Christianity foundation of hoodoo, then I shouldn't be practicing it. (Please note, this is merely a personal opinion and feeling -- there is absolutely no judgement within that statement. Spirituality is intensely personal and I am no one to judge another person's journey).

I was hoping that there was someone on this board who understands where I'm coming from, who can maybe offer some advice. I am so drawn to this practice and so deeply appreciative and respecting of African-American culture and I don't want to try to fit myself in to something where I have no place.

Thank you!

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Re: Hoodoo & Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by catherineyronwode » Sun Nov 06, 2016 11:28 pm

greenbean1,

My advice is if you are not comfortable with Christian folk magic, don't practice it. That goes for Swedish, Danish, and Norwegian trolldom as well as hoodoo.

Likewise, if Buddhism and Mongolian animism are not your thing, don't study North Asian magic.

Or, for nine bucks, buy a copy of "Hoodoo Bible Magic" by Miss Michael and Prof. Charles Porterfield. If you like it, then you'll enjoy that aspect of our work. If you don't like it, give it to a Christian or Jewish magical friend as a gift.

Good luck!
catherine yronwode

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Re: Hoodoo & Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by greenbean1 » Mon Nov 07, 2016 12:56 am

I wouldn't say uncomfortable with Christian folk magic, but more along the lines of it doesn't coincide with my beliefs.

With that said, knowing hoodoo is so firmly attached the Protestant Christianity, I know hoodoo is a practice and not a religion.

I know many people who practice hoodoo, but participate in a religion that is not Protestant Christianity. They go by the traditional teachings of hoodoo and incorporate all of the Christian traditions.

I guess my question is, is this an appropriate way to practice? To go by the rules of hoodoo but outside of it be tied to a different religion than the foundation hoodoo is tied to?

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Re: Hoodoo & Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by catherineyronwode » Mon Nov 07, 2016 6:16 pm

greenbean1 --

Earlier you wrote, "A large part of me needs to learn about [hoodoo], wants to practice it."

Now you ask if it is "appropriate to go by the rules of hoodoo but outside of it be tied to a different religion than the foundation hoodoo is tied to?"

Look, if someone said "I feel a need to learn about Chinese folk magic but Chinese Taoism and animism doesn't coincide with my beliefs so i am going to go by the rules of Chinese magic while casting spells, but outside of it, when my Chinese friends are not looking, i will be practcing a non-Chinese religion," i'd call that person a dilletant, a spiritual tourist, or even an arrogant cultural appropriator.

Same for hoodoo and black religious culture. Yes, "hoodoo is a practice and not a religion," but more than half the spells i know make use of Christian scripture!

It is disrespectful to pretend to join into a culture and then to try to pick and choose in order to learn its "secular" spells and to eliminate its religiously based spells. It is disrespectful also to teachers to tell them that their religion "doesn't coincide with your beliefs."

Nobody wants a student like that. Folks will not share a thing with such a student because they will see at once that the student is not interested in their beliefs.

As Proferssor Porterfield says, "You're asking to join hoodoo; it is not asking to join you."

And as Candelo Kimbisa says, "Go dig inside your fucking heart and see what's really there."

My advice is similar: "Go do something you CAN believe in and leave the rest alone."
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Re: Hoodoo & Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by greenbean1 » Mon Nov 07, 2016 7:29 pm

Wasn't at all implying that I would be the one to perpetrate cultural appropriation. I was only asking about it because I was led here by certain people who practice hoodoo but believe in a different religion. That is why I posed the question. Because it didn't seem appropriate to me and I wanted to make sure it wasn't. I need to learn about hoodoo, yes. That doesn't mean I'm going to appropriate it. I wanted to educate myself. That is literally my only reason for posting here.

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Re: Hoodoo & Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by Miss Aida » Mon Nov 07, 2016 9:46 pm

Hello, greenbean1 ,

Are you Christian? Just asking because you had concentrated on asking abut the Protestant religion.

I'm Catholic and practice Hoodoo Successfully

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Re: Hoodoo & Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by catherineyronwode » Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:18 am

A CUSTOMER OF THE LMCCO MESSAGED ME IN FACEBOOK (private details have been redacted):

She lives in a foreign contry but is "very interested in enrolling" in my root work course. She is a professional reader and a member of a Neo-Pagan religion]. She has studied her own "cultural and magical heritage" but while she loves and respects her national heritage, she does not feel called to stay on the Neo-Pagan path.

She goes on to describe "a series of dreams" that have led her to move toward a different spiritual tradition -- which is nothing new in this world, except that she also says that making this move will cause her to "embark on a path that quite frankly scares me because I know that for me there is no turning back." She intends to approach this dream-revealed African and African Diasporic religion and its culture with respect and in full awareness of the potential for cultural appropriation. She says she has "no right what so ever to African or African American culture" but still feels drawn to it for reasons she cannot explain.

Then she brings me into the mix. She writes that she realizes that i teach hoodoo and my work and teachings are "Bible based," but she wants to ask my advice in regards to a specific African Diasporic religion.

She says that deities of the religion have entered her dreams, and names two specific deities. She says that she did not know anything about the pantheon of this religion before she had these dreams.

She says that she needs to know if this African-derived religion is truly her path.

She says that she has spoken with her "spirits and ancestors," asking for them to recommend an advisor from whom to seek help, and they always say "no," until my name is mentioned "and then it's yes." She has asked this several times over a period of months and the spiritual answers are consistent.

She wishes to book my services as a spiritual advisor.

THIS WAS MY REPLY:

Hello,

If walking a path that "quite frankly scares" you is your destiny, i am not meant to be your teacher or advisor. I teach open, friendly, multicultural folk magic, and my major focus is in the African American Christian tradition, called hoodoo.

I have no idea what you mean when you say "there is no turning back," but that sounds terrifying and coercive.

I cannot speak to you about [the mentioned religion]. I have never felt interested in {it] or any of the African and African Diasporic religions like [names of religions], for two reasons: (1) they are all based on killing animals for spiritual purposes at public rituals and (2) the drum beats that are used in their rituals do not appeal to me and the ritual songs are not melodic. The latter reason is highly individualistic to me, but as they say, to each his or her own.

I have been drawn to Black Baptist / Spiritual Church music all my life, and there is no animal sacrifice in Christian churches, so i am quite happy where i am.

In my opinion there is no reason that your religion should be a torture to you and, frankly, to seek out a religion that "scares" you and from which "there is no turning back" sounds mentally ill. Why would any sane person do that?

It astounds me that you would even approach me about this, but since you did, all i can say is that when your dreams contain threatening or frightening figures or messages, it is a good idea to protect your sleeping space against spiritual intrusion.

Good luck -- and, by the way, i am porting your question (anonymized, with your name deleted) and my reply to the Lucky Mojo Forum, in the thread about religion. You are not the only one who has sought me out for a spiritual consultation in this matter, and the payment is simply that i be able to use the time i have spent replying to you to reach a wider public. Thank you.
catherine yronwode

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Re: Hoodoo & Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by BrennaNicki » Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:49 am

Hello, I don't really know how to start this, so I guess I'll just say a bit about myself.

I am grew up as a Baptist Christian and as I grew older I knew that wasn't right for me. For a small amount of time I thought maybe I was an atheist, but then I decided that wasn't right for me either. After attempting to study different religions and practices, and trying to find somewhere where I fit, I decided to find something that speaks with me from a spiritual perspective and hoped that religion would just follow on it's own naturally. I tried Wicca for a bit, and I wasn't for it (No offense to Wiccans! It just wasn't for me.) and then I tried simply preforming magik and cleansing of my own body and spirit, but with no real guide or calling, I felt lost rather than rejuvenated.

Recently, I've discovered the practices of Hoodoo and honestly this is the first thing that has spoken to me spiritually for a long time. I had done as much research as a could on my own and then preformed a small ritual at my alter and it was the most spiritual I felt in a long time.

The problem that I have is, I had hoped that with spirituality religion would follow, but I'm still not sure if I believe in god, at least I'm not sure if I believe in a Christian God. I know that Hoodoo's history is very important and that it's history is African American Christians. I know I am African American, but I am not sure if I'm Christian. I know that I could always find the faith again, however I feel it would be disrespectful to practice Hoodoo and simply pretend to believe in a higher power that I'm not sure I believe in?

What my question essentially is, is it alright to practice Hoodoo spiritually if I am not a Christian?
If any of you have strayed away from your faith, what brought you back to God?

Hoodoo really speaks to me, and if I am able to restore my faith in Christianity, that would be wonderful. But I also don't want to force myself in a religion I may not be completely confident in simply so I can continue to practice Hoodoo because I feel that it is disrespectful to our ancestors.

I'm not sure if this needs clarification or not, but it's not that I don't believe in a higher power. I essentially do believe that there is something, but, as of now, I just don't think it's the father, the son and the holy spirit.

Sorry if this is the wrong place or if this offensive, I could just really use some guidance here. I thank you for your time.

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Re: Hoodoo & Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by catherineyronwode » Thu Jan 25, 2018 6:55 pm

BrennaNicki --

I don't think that your question is offensive, and i wish i could answer it for you, but your path is your own to walk. I know that for myself i entered into the black community as a Reform / Ethical Culture Jew, and soon found myself in a storefront black Baptist church, singing in the choir. I was never baptized and i still identify as a Jew, but i often call on Jesus, as i might have called upon Elijah had i continued to cast folk magic spells in a purely Jewish framework. I also attended black Spiritualist and New Thought churches, and found quite a lot of spiritual uplift in their congregations.

With all the denominational and doctrinal hair-splitting that religion is prey to, i am not sure that strictly defining one's beliefs is necessary to the practice of hoodoo, as long as one walks within the broad and tolerant path of African American community belief and custom. In other words, if hearing someone praying "in Jesus' name, amen" sends you running and screaming from the room, hoodoo will probably not be a comfortable fit for you -- but if you believe in a higher power and enjoy the language of the Bible, then you will probably feel just fine about this practice.
catherine yronwode

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Re: Hoodoo & Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by Mochalynnnnn » Sun Jun 10, 2018 1:38 pm

Ok so i keep seeing the name Hecate everywhere an i mean everywhere its been popping up everywhere for the last week im not sure what she atands for i plan on getting a reading to find out why i keep see her name but does anyone have any info on her

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Re: Hoodoo & Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by Sister Jean » Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:02 am

Hello Mochalynnnnn,

Google will probably be more helpful to you, but if you go back through the older posts in this thread you will find a few mentions of Hecate. Not much though, because this is a forum dedicated to hoodoo, which has roots in the black Protestant faiths.

Take care.
Thank you saints and spirits!
Proud member of AIRR and Hoodoo Psychics!
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Re: Hoodoo & Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by PrincessoftheLake30 » Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:34 am

I was raised Christian but was always fascinated by magic since I was a kid. I used to love shows like Sabrina, Billy and Mandy and anime. A classmate read my tarot cards when I was in middle school. It wasn't until I became a teenager that I heard in church that there is no such thing as white magic, all magic was evil. I learned that Tarot was apparently a sin.

I got baptised at 13 and was visited by demons a few months after that in my sleep. I would have visions of Hell, strange dreams and sleep paralysis.

This went on for years. The last visit I had was when a black shadow creature pounced me. It was so scary I woke up. I was 20.

I went through a close encounter with the occult twice when I turned 21. I believe certain family members are involved in the dark arts. I was impregnated twice by a spirit but chose to terminate them through prayer.

I'm 22 now.

I had two readings done.

An aura reader told me I could either be a healer or a seer. He said in a different life I could be a witch but that is not me.

Another psychic said that I could see the future in my dreams but I can't remember them. She said she didn't see me as a witch. She knew that I had two spiritual abortions. And she said that there is darkness around me.

These two psychics are of Christian influence.

I have watched Valerie Love's videos on being a Christian witch. I have read books about voodoo, read articles on magic, and history books about religion. I do agree that I could be a healer and see the future. But when my friend said I could have been a witch in another life, it made me think.

I tried a freezer spell and it seemed to work but is that just coincidence?

I made an ancestor altar and gave offerings to Papa Legba before.

I still attend church but I don't feel the same zeal I felt from the time I was being targeted to get pregnant by a spirit. I feel torn about that I still worship Jesus and dabbled in magic.

I believe that these secret society's are real. I'm not just talking about the YouTube videos.

I observed some strange things from my phantom pregnancies. And noticed cars by my house.

What should I do to know what I am spiritually?

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Re: Hoodoo & Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by catherineyronwode » Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:58 am

PrincessoftheLake30

This forum is for practitioners of hoodoo, an African American form of folk magic, most of whose practitioners are Christian.

This is not a forum about TV shows, anime, determining if you are a witch, your family members practicing the dark arts, voodoo, Papa Legba, phantom pregnancies by spirits, spiritual abortions, Valerie Love, Christian witchcraft, Christian guilt, past lives, secret societies, paranormal phenomena, or cars by your house.

With all due respect, i don't think we can help you much, but if you do take an interest in hoodoo, just ask and we will try to reply to your questions.
catherine yronwode

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Re: Hoodoo & Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by PrincessoftheLake30 » Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:30 pm

I see. I didn't mean to be off topic. I'm new to this.

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Re: Hoodoo & Religion: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Atheism

Unread post by catherineyronwode » Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:39 pm

PrincessoftheLake30 --

No problem, because everyone is new sometime, but maybe you would do well to start by reading a bit about the history of hoodoo. Here is a sample look at it, which i wrote:

http://luckymojo.com/hoodoohistory.html
catherine yronwode

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