LMHR Hour Chat Log May 31, 2006 Become a Professional - Chat Log

[MissMichaele]

2006-9) May 31: How Do I Know When I Can be a Professional Practitioner?, with Dr. Christos Kioni, Dara Anslowar, Miss Cat, Ms. Robin, and Queen Mabulla

[At beginning of phone conference, DR. KIONI states he is having phone trouble and cannot be heard. Phone trouble contnues intermittently -- he rejoins with a good connection later in the show. ]

CAT YRONWODE: Question arises because one of the goals of my class, for some students, is to actually become a rootworker, if only for yourself. Of my 800 or so students to date, about 100 were professionals when taking the class or have aimed at becoming rootworkers, readers, or candle shop owners.

Speaking for myself, i knew I was ready to turn pro, many years ago; had been working for self and friends for a long time for free. Living on a commune, a friend's wife left him and he was lonely. I made a spell-in-a-box to bring him a new lover. He said, "What do I owe you for this?" No one had ever asked me that before. I said not to pay me unless it worked. It did work, and he even ended up with a child from his new relationship, but he never did pay me, still I resolved to charge for work when it felt right to do so. I was about 17-18.

I started with barter, then charging for ingredients plus an hourly wage rate, then flat-out charging, once I had a few years of successes under my belt.

DARA ANSLOWAR: I did a lot of reading for many years and conjure work for self and others as I was prompted to. People started approaching me in a traditional way (I was working with Cherokee medicine) - bringing me petitions for help with wrapped cedar, very ceremonial. I never advertised. Somehow, people knew. I was confident enough in the work I had done for free, that I could charge them for my time, energy and "stuff". Started with nominal amount and worked up to amount that reflected energy I put into it.

MISS CAT: Interesting - others identified us before we identified ourselves. People would come up to me in high school and say "You'rea witch, aren't you?"

DARA: Me too!

QUEEN MABULLA: This is a good question. I've always received something for doing work. Somebody would ask you to do something and automatically ask "what do you charge?" My grandmother did work, and I helped her. I also worked in a candle shop as teenager. At one point I thought people who wanted to pay me for rootwork were a little crazy, but even when I was working for the Board of Education, people would look at me and assume I could help them. In the black community it's assumed that you pay.

MISS CAT: I will note that the man who first offered to pay me was black and Native American.

QUEEN MABULLA: Yeah, my first business was with vitamins, etc. One of my customers was crying because she was having to send three months' mortgage payments to someone she met through the National Enquirer, and I did some stuff for her instead; she referred others to me.

EOGHAN BALLARD: I can't tell you exactly when - began working for others, usually for barter, in early teens. Wasn't really until after I was fairly visible in Palo community that people started contacting me and asking "What do you charge to do this?"

MISS CAT: Queen Mabulla, what do you need to *be* a professional, besides other people recognizing you? What knowledge should you have? I think the better rootworkers are the more prepared. So, what do people need to know how to do?

QUEEN MABULLA: I know a lot of rootworkers with problems. Most of us were educated in Christian, Muslim (etc.) systems, scared of "what goes around, comes around", Threefold Law, karma, or some variant. Get free of that - but be sure, also, of what things you WON'T do.

Clients often think they have been crossed or cursed when it's really needlessly guilty conscience.

You also need to be a good listener and a reader - read them somehow, with cards, a pendulum, even flipping a coin - so you can decide whether to take a case. You need to be wary of biting off more than you can chew.

You also need peers to talk shop with and refer your overflow to.

You need to know when to say No. You can't save the whole world!

Know what you believe - that will tell you where your limits are.

Once again, you really must be able to read.

MISS CAT: The first lesson in the course i teach is called "Gifted for the work" - yet many gifted students think they are NOT gifted to read. Here's a story that shows how people come to think that they can;t read, when they actually can:

I used not to carry crystal balls in my shop *because I never could read with them.* I saw a beautiful one in a shop years ago, wanted it desperately, and could not see anything with it - so assumed I was not gifted to read, even though I've always been able to read photographs. I can read cards, horoscopes, palms - but not crystal balls. So i left them out of my experience. We each have different ways to read. Dr. Kioni can read over phone; I can't. First thing to figure out is: how do *you* read?

QUEEN MABULLA: Recognize, also, when clients are a *poor match* for you.

EOGHAN BALLARD: Another thing that gets overlooked: it's not only a matter of reading techniques, but the *interaction* between you and the client! How does the individual understand the problem? It's really not that different from interacting with a psychological counselor. Figure out and *be aware* of your way of *communicating with clients.*

MISS CAT: Different clients come from different cultures. Know enough about their culture to present your message in ways they understand. Example: widely read author on cold readings covered all topics but *family* - vital in black culture. One size does not fit all, culturally. You don't need to intellectualize it, though! If you're any good, it'll all flow together.

QUEEN MABULLA: I always ask what religion they are.

DR. KIONI: Yes, I wanted to add that too. Essential to know client's spiritual background to know how to relate to them.

MISS CAT: I allow people's speech patterns (over phone) to tell me clues to culture (and sometimes gender). I let clients fill in blanks to see how accurate my intuitions are; just a game I play with myself. For instance, when I say "Then you'll want to pray to - whoever you pray to…" Will the client answer "Oh, Mother Kali" as her accent led me to expect? Or a Muslim saint? Or Jesus?

Sometimes, when I'm curious about their location, I pull out of my body, up above world, and wait for their location to light up on the globe or on a map of the US.

Little "games" like this are tests of how well I'm in sync with that person. The more I get right, the better fit we are as client and worker.

QUEEN MABULLA: You have to be balanced, too. Take time off as needed. Have friends who aren't workers.

Figure out what you do best. Recognize that sometimes the answer is just NO. Amazing how some people guarantee 100% success in all cases.

DARA: Yeah, watch out for those people.

MISS CAT: Know your personal strengths as a worker. For example, i don't gamble much - only when I know I'll win. I make gambling hands and oils and people tell me they're pretty hot, but I've never taken on a case to help someone win at gambling and don't use magic to win at gambling myself.

The longer you live, the more you find out what kinds of things you can do.

QUEEN MABULLA: Some things you can't do for yourself but can do for others.

MISS CAT: Yes, sometimes I've been so snarled up about love work that I can't do it for myself - though I'm good at it. I've known workers who didn't know where their next month's rent was coming from, but helped others to become rich.

QUEEN MABULLA: You need to know who can do work for YOU. A surgeon doesn't operate on himself.

MISS CAT: So true. My students often ask me to light candles for them - we pros need lights set for us sometimes, too.

Queen Mabulla, when you discover you can't help a client, how do you break it to them?

QUEEN MABULLA: I tell them straight up - but I say "I'll refer you to someone else". But if there's no hope at all, I'll say so, "but I'm not God and could be wrong." Have tissues handy. Tell the truth!

DARA: Sometimes it's hard to hear the truth, though.

MISS CAT: When I was younger, it was hard for me to do that; I wanted to please everybody. Especially when they cry … Say a man beats his woman, she leaves & gets a restraining order, and he comes to me, crying, for reconciliation work - but once she gets another man, it's over, no matter how repentant he seems to be. You have to say, "It's over."

Or job getting: Say a man is turned down for one job after another. I want to help, but it's not working, so I'll do another reading if the answer is No, to find out why: maybe he's on drugs? Also, I'll want to find out why I have a hard time saying No to him.

QUEEN MABULLA: You've GOT to have a lot of social-service resources. If they come to you for magical help to compensate for character flaws, lack of intelligence, inability to follow directions - there are actually programs to help with all of these material flaws. Know where they are and how to get into them!

I also get all the crazy people in the world. You need to know whether their problem is mental or spiritual/magical. If that person tells you they've been to all the local readers, they will drive you insane and badmouth *you* next. Don't take them unless the divination tells you that you are their savior.

MISS CAT: Yes, the sure sign of such a person is a litany of rootworkers who failed them. I see a leaden color when talking to them. When young, I thought I was their savior. Now I call them "spiritual shoppers."

Re: the intellectually challenged who want good jobs: social service references is probably the best thing you can do for them. There really are training programs and places in society for such people. I took a case, a person with no house, no car, no job - but two years later, they have all three, and it's partly because they got into job training and talked to a social worker.

QUEEN MABULLA: Yeah, and call the programs yourself before they leave! A lot of these people have had NOBODY sit down and try to help them! This work isn't all about gris gris bags and candles!

Watch out for "generators" - people who have all kinds of spirits hanging around - you can get zapped when they come to see you.

The best way to get into this work is to wait for people to start asking you to help them. Look at Dr. Kioni: he is a minister, but look at what work he is doing! This is his calling.

EOGHAN BALLARD: It always amuses me to run across "initiation collectors" - such people become "jack of all trades and master of none." In any society where such traditions are part of larger culture, most people AVOID initiation as long as they can! They only cave because the spirits make their lives a living hell.

MISS CAT: Yes, I've had many people tell me that when they turn away from their gifts they get sick, and when they turn back to it they get healed. I've had times when I turned away - when my 1st daughter died, for instance; I felt that since I could not help or heal her or myself, what right did I have to do this work for others? So I turned away from it. But because of that experience I was later able to help people whose children had died.

When my 2nd husband left me, I thought I couldn't help others keep their men - but I found a new man and now I find myself telling older women that they can still find someone.

All these expriences have enabled me to help those who are going through the things I have gone through.

Many rootworkers are young in mind and appearance - but the more experienced you are, the wider your variety of clientele becomes.

QUEEN MABULLA: Yes, when I was younger I didn't understand why "old ladies" - fifty or so - came to me to get men. *Now* I understand.

EOGHAN BALLARD: I used to wonder why I had to deal with death so much. But it enabled me to converse with the dead, and to counsel people who are dealing with all that.

SINDY: A question:Qhen to walk away. Expand on this, please, Queen Mabulla?

QUEEN MABULLA: Walk away from what?

SINDY: From a client you can't help.

QUEEN MABULLA: All my clients get home work to do. I also tell people I can't offer guarantees. I talk a lot to people. (People have all the answers inside them, but we're not taught to understand that.) If you listen, divine, and communicate with client, your cases should work out most of the time. I DON'T take cases where client won't do their part.

MISS CAT: Say your divination says you should take the case, but the thing goes bad on you: roadblocks arise, no results. Then what?

QUEEN MABULLA: I call my godfather! [Laughs]

It also helps to set up the work so it's flexible. Love work, for instance: Tell the client, "Let's work to call *your soul mate* to you. If the man you're interested *is* your soul mate, he will come; if not, he'll go away, and your real soul mate will come." I've "met my soul mate" a hundred times, so I know how they're feeling.

DARA: Re: importance of in-depth reading - so you fully understand client's situation as much as possible: clients who have been stuck on a situation for a long time, been told things by other readers - and present readers' comments as fact. You MUST do YOUR OWN divination.

MISS CAT: Yes, they may say, "My husband's got a girlfriend. A reader told me so." But they may not tell you about the other reader - who might have been a cold reader, a fraud - until 20 minutes into the discussion. So they're coming to you for a second opinion and a bargain, cheaper than the frauds who advertise in the tabloids.

DARA: We all tend to want to take people at face value - that's how most humans operate - but you must find out for yourself.

QUEEN MABULLA: Yeah, and their elaborate tales often don't even make sense. There are many courses you can take - not spiritual studies, but plain psychology - to help you with these kinds of listening skills.

DARA: But they leave things out because they are embarrassed, are afraid you won't take the case if they find out, don't want to look bad.

QUEEN MABULLA: I tell 'em straight up: "You're lying to me." Would you lie to a doctor about where it hurts?

MISS CAT: Dr. Kioni, you'll sometimes make a deal with client to work with them for a certain amount of time… explain that?

DRK: I enter into a retainer agreement with my clients: 12 weeks for a set amount of money, set in cement. Even if the case is harder than it appears, I keep my word. I offer a further 4-week extension *if client is not happy* with results or feels the case needs more time. I do not charge extra even if I have to do more rituals, use more products, ship more things to client. This helps clients understand that there is a shelf-life to our agreement.

With other clients, I work 6-9 months; I offer them, too, an extra 4 weeks if needed.

Why 12 weeks / 3 months? people ask -- because Conjure works timing in multiples of three.

MISS CAT: Yes, clients need to know that a spell that hasn't moved in 2=plus years is dead. You set your own time limit. 3 months is a good amount of time for most work.

MS. ROBIN: Me too - 3 months. And like Queen Mabulla, I do *listen* - sometimes I'll talk with a client for 2 hours.

I do split fees too sometimes.

Like Queen Mabulla, I give clients home work.

I also refuse future business from clients who don't pay in full.

MISS CAT: "Split fee"? - 1 fee for the reading, another for the work?

MS. ROBIN: No; 2 installments for a job, if client can't afford to pay 100% up front.

QUEEN MABULLA: I charge $45 for a reading, because that may be all I can do for a client; but I split fees for rootwork in 2-3 installments; that's pretty common around here.

MISS CAT: I'm no good at math, so I don't do that; but I charge separately for readings and rootwork.

QUEEN MABULLA: Most people are good about paying. Some even send extra after the work is done. It's always been that way in African-American community.

MISS CAT: Sending extra - tips -- is common. We charge just the price of a candle at Lucky Mojo, and setting lights is free. But people send tips for that, and we pass them on to the person who actually sets the light. Some of my employees get good money from those tips.

(EOGHAN BALLARD's final comment obscured by program out-tro)

[catherineyronwode]

Thanks to Miss Michaele, we have a record of this radio podcast from 2006. The audio files are long gone, but Miss Micahele has preserved our word. THANK YOU, Miss Michaele.