Lucky Mojo Hoodoo Rootwork Hour #08-08: Attracting a Gay Partner (Miss Cat, Dr. Kioni)

[MissMichaele]

LUCKY MOJO HOODOO ROOTWORK RADIO HOUR


April 23, 2008

LIVE SESSION: ATTRACTING A GAY PARTNER
with client Mark

[MUSIC INTRO: Jug Band Waltz by Will Shade and the Memphis Jug Band]

[DR. KIONI introduces MISS CAT]

[MISS CAT describes the attractions of the Hoodoo Party and Hoodoo
Workshop, May 3 and 4, 2008]

Dr. Kioni: Tonight's guest is Mark from Illinois. He is here to talk
about his love challenges. Mark, how are you doing?

Mark: I'm doing fine, Dr. Kioni. How are you?

Dr. Kioni: I'm doing well, thank you. You're here to talk about the
challenge of same-sex love, and attracting the attention of someone
who just doesn't seem to be warming up to you; is that correct?

Mark: That's correct, yes.

Dr. Kioni: Well, why don't you give us a little backdrop to the story,
and Cat will have questions for you, I'll have questions for you --
and we'll get things rolling. Where would you like to begin, Mark?

Mark: Well -- I can begin by telling you that this guy and I -- Cesar
-- have been friends for a long time -- maybe, like, 10 years. We
kind of lost touch with each other. He was sick just last year, in
the hospital, and so we reconnected again. We got really close,
started hanging out, started going out to dinner and movies, and
things like that. There had always been this attraction, but no one
had done anything about it. So I decided to pursue at this time. And
maybe I was just -- too forceful? I don't know, maybe I came on too
strong. It doesn't seem to be -- it's, like, at a standstill. You
know, he says he cares for me, he loves me -- but nothing has really
gone anywhere. You know, kind of stagnant. So I'm not really sure
what to do. We're still in each other's lives, but I guess I don't
know what to do at this point.

Miss cat: Well, let me ask you a couple of questions. You say he was
sick. Was it a serious illness?

Mark: No -- it was appendicitis. It wasn't all that serious, but he
was in the hospital. That's how I knew that he was there.

[Dr. Kioni commences shuffling cards]

Mark: I would go visit him, and that's how we got really close again,
you know, reacquainted, and that's how we got back together.

Miss cat: I see. Now, I'm going to ask a question that, if I knew you
better, I probably wouldn't have to ask. But I've had to ask this
question before, when my best friend, who was gay, asked me about a
love affair that was going nowhere. Finally, after a year, I asked him, "Are you sure this other guy's gay?" And he said, "Well, not really."

[Mark laughs]

Miss cat: You're sure this other guy is gay.

Mark: No -- I am sure he's gay! I know that sure. [Laughs]

Miss cat: I'm embarrassed to have to ask the question.

Mark: I think the problem is that I really want a relationship --
because we have talked about this just recently. And he just wants to
play the field. That's where I think the problem really comes from.

Miss cat: I see.

Mark: I suppose he knows that if anything really happens, I'm always
going to want more, and he's going to want to keep just doing his thing.

Miss cat: Yes. And -- you don't need to give me your exact ages, but
what decade are you both in?

Mark: We are 35 and 40.

Miss cat: You're 35, he's 40?

Mark: I'm 40.

Miss cat: The reason I ask, is because age has a lot to do with when
people want to settle down. If you were both in your 20s, I'd say,
"Wait this out a little bit." Now, if he's 35 and has never settled
down yet, has he ever had a long-term relationship?

Mark: I think he's had, like, one long-term relationship.

Miss cat: And did it come to pain for him?

Mark: He doesn't really talk about it, so it may have been a painful
thing.

Dr. Kioni: It comes to pain. The 4 of Swords is reversed in the Past,
speaking to that one, Cat. That's what he doesn't talk about it.

Mark: All right.

Miss cat: Well, now we have an answer. That's good. I get some of
these things just by asking direct questions, and Dr. Kioni jumps
right over our heads with these tarot cards [laughs]. But he's good
with those cards. All right: so the past shows 4 of Swords, reversed,
so he has trouble committing because of what happened to him in the
past. Thank you, Dr. Kioni. While we have your cards laid out, why
don't you tell us how the rest of those four cards are going to go?

Dr. Kioni: Yes.

Present: the Devil, reversed, for an unchanged situation. Obviously,
some people would look in a couple of ways. Some will say, "That's a
release from bondage." But the card also has another indication of
things not changing, of a state of affairs not changing, or remaining
in bondage, remaining under a cloud or whatever. To put the card in
the proper perspective, to determine what it actually is saying, we
look at the perceiving card, the 4 of Swords, and the card that comes
after it --

Future: the 4 of Wands, reversed. So here's someone who doesn't feel
that he has any hope for long-term prospects in regard to
relationships right now. I think that is the reason why you have him
saying to you that he wants to play the field. He is intentionally
putting up an emotional block to getting any deeper with you. That is
a disconnect, actually, from attaching himself any further emotionally.

Outcome: The Sun, reversed. An interesting card, because it almost
destroys everything else that has been said -- but not really.

Miss cat: Ooh!

Dr. Kioni: To workers and advisors who work with the cards, the Sun
has basically the same meaning in its reversed or upright position.
However, when it is reversed, the meaning is a little bit muted. So
instead of saying, "Oh, it's a really, really, really bright and
beautiful, clear day," we would say, "Oh, it's partly cloudy," or if
you're of the other persuasion, "It is partly sunny." So there's
somewhat of an optimistic outlook here, but it's kind of
tongue-in-cheek.

Miss cat: Yeah. It is muted. It's what I would call a muted enthusiasm.

Dr. Kioni: Mm-hmm!

Miss cat: There's not the ability to fully own your joy.

Mark: Well, Dr. Kioni, can you see from what you're doing that he even
considers it, or that he even cares?

Dr. Kioni: Let me turns more cards here, because that was the next
question I was going to ask.

Miss cat: While he turns those cards, let me just throw out a few
ideas about this. This shows to me that there's nobody interfering
but him.

[Dr. Kioni resumes shuffling cards]

Miss cat: He's the problem, not you. It's not that you're not
attractive; it's not that you're not doing the right thing; it's not
that that you came on too strong. It's that he has some problems.
And I'm going to say something about that: the Devil, reversed, in the
Present. I use the Waite deck, and that is one of those several decks
that has one of those images [on the Devil card] where the Lovers
(male and female, in this case, but it could be any lovers) are
chained to the altar of the Devil. This is often a very unfortunate
card to have come up one you're talking about a love affair. But when
it's reversed, it seems to be that he's really afraid of being tied
down. He's afraid that if he gives in to -- well, what the old cards
call lust, or whatever -- that he's going to find himself under
control in some way, or in pain, in some way that he doesn't want.
That Devil reversed speaks to me very strongly.

Now, the next question was -- Dr. Kioni, what was the question?

Mark: Oh, I was asking what were his really true feelings? Because he
always gives me mixed signals, you know. I mean, he wants to spend
quality time [with me], but when things get too close ...

Dr. Kioni: Okay, the next cards in the spread:

Past: 7 of Wands, reversed. This card is now parallel to the 4 of
Swords, reversed [in the previous spread]. This says to me that here
is an individual who lacks the impulse or the courage, I should say,
or the desire to actually make this relationship into something more
than what it is. There just isn't, as Cat said, the motivation to
take it to the next level. Interestingly enough -- and this is
probably going to encourage you, Mark --

[Laughter]

Dr. Kioni:

Present: 2 of Pentacles. This represents Cesar's feelings. We know
that this is definitely a really feel-good card of the balance of yin
and yang energy, and so forth -- so this says to me that he is
enjoying the relationship you have with him on the level that you have
it right now. And that's not a bad thing; it's not the greatest of
foundations, but if you have a good relationship as friends, then
perhaps you can build on that as you grow with each other, and as he
heals from the past. And that is somewhat encouraging, because ...

Future: 3 of Wands. Again, I think, speaking to him wanting to
maintain this relationship and the dynamics that you all have. It
feels good to him; it feels right to him. This is a really good card
to have in a relationship reading. There is a Sun-in-Aries energy
associated with this card. One may even say, with the Sun-in-Aries
energy, that one may, at some point in the future, even get the
courage that is lacking in the past to act upon what one is feeling!

Outcome: 8 of Pentacles, reversed. This is a card that really throws
things around. It's almost like, "Okay, but ... mmmmmaybe not."
[Laughing]

Mark: "Maybe not," huh?

Dr. Kioni: Yeah. Don't have enough information to process right now.
Just can't go that deep right now. I think this is a situation where
the two of you need to kind of just grow, and you need to be there as
a nurturer. You probably will do more of the giving, emotionally,
because this is someone who's hurt and who doesn't want to go any
deeper right now, until some healing can take place. But he's
definitely interested. What do you think, Cat? There it is.

Miss cat: I think this is a very clear reading to me, and I agree with
you completely. What I'm saying is that -- especially with that 2 of
Pentacles, the little balancing card there, this is exactly where he
wants to be. He doesn't want to go any farther; his true feelings
are, "This is exactly what I like! This is all balanced perfectly."
He can have a certain amount of emotional commitment; he can have a
certain amount of social commitment; he doesn't have to worry about
anything. These are his true feelings. He wants to maintain the
relationship dynamics as they are, and is not -- 8 of Pentacles
reversed -- he's not interested in going any deeper.

Now, the question is: do you want to do some work to overcome that
amount of resistance, or are you content to say, "All right, I
understand where we're at, let me see if I can live with it."

Mark [laughing]: Maybe Dr. Kioni is right -- that little bit of
encouragement makes me want to do something! Or at least try
something, I think.

Miss cat: The thing is, with his feelings the way they are, you're
going to have to do quite a bunch of work to get him to come over to
you. Now, I know, because of the things that you have purchased and
been doing, that you have done a lot. [Miss Cat is looking at Mark's record of purchases from Lucky Mojo.]

Do you mind if I reveal a little bit of the things that you've done?

Mark: No, that's fine!

Miss cat: All right, I'm just going to open this up and talk a little
bit, here, about some things.

Now, you have been using oils and candles including Lavender Love Drops, Road Opener, Reconciliation, Return to Me -- I presume that's because you've been apart, and you want to get him closer.

Mark: Well, let me also reiterate -- I guess because, during Christmas
time things got really intense, and there were maybe two or three
months where he had just disappeared altogether, and we weren't
talking, and he wasn't even returning my phone calls. So then I was
doing the Return to Me, the Reconciliation, and I thought that I had
pushed so hard that I had pushed him away. Eventually -- doing that,
and [giving it some] time -- we are now back [to] communicating.
There had been a point in time when we were communicating at all.

Miss cat: And you also went so far as to do an Intranquil Spirit on him.

Mark: I have it here; I haven't done it yet! I wasn't quite sure
about it, but that's right. I just got that recently. It's sitting
right in front of me.

Miss cat: Personally, I think that's a little harsh for this poor man,
but -- you know -- if you feel like it.

Mark [laughing]: That's what I thought, too. I ordered it, I got it,
I haven't done it yet.

Miss cat: You haven't done it yet? You may never do it. I would
recommend against it in this particular case.

Mark: Okay.

Miss cat: Intranquil Spirit is a very serious effort on a lover's
part, [a lover] who has been rejected -- hurt, usually -- to make
someone suffer as much as they did. It requires calling upon a spirit
who is wandering in hell --

Mark: That's why I didn't do it, because I was never, ever quite
comfortable with that prayer.

Miss cat: That's exactly right. People say, "I want them to suffer,"
but when you look at that prayer, you go "No, I'm not so sure." So,
good. You have it, and if you ever feel that way, go ahead and use
it; but at this point I would not be using that. I'm glad you did not.

Mark: No, I did not. But I do still have the Commanding, the
Compelling,...

Miss cat: ... The Controlling. Those are not bad. And then, of
course, more Road Openers, I see here, and Follow Me Boy.

Well, Road Opener is a good one, because that's kind of what he needs.
He needs his path to be opened. He needs his path to be resolved.
He needs to get to the place where he can trust and love, and make a
commitment. And it's not just about you, as that first set of cards
showed. Dr. Kioni was very clear, and I'm clear on it, too.

Mark: Okay.

Miss cat: This is about him. If you push too hard, sure, you'll drive
him away. But even if you don't push hard, that's not going to make a
difference, because it's his problem. And you could be sweet, you
could be sour, you could be hot, you could be cold, you could be warm,
you could be just right; HE still has the problem.

Mark: He still has the problem.

Miss cat: Right. So what I'm going to recommend is a little more on
the subject of healing him. Try to open his way. Now, you've been
doing Road Opener on him, and I presume that's to open the path to get
to him. But I'm going to suggest a different kind of "change" candle.
I'm going to suggest that you start thinking about doing some
Blessing candles for him.

Mark: Blessing?

Miss cat: Blessing him.

Mark: Oh, okay.

Miss cat: And blessing him with abundant love; blessing him with peace
of mind; blessing him with trust. These are the things he's lacking.

This is not your fault; this is his lack. Why you want the man --
well, only you and God know that. But some men are not easy to love,
and I can say that from my own experience -- but we want them anyway. And some women are the same way -- I've never had that experience --
but I've heard people say, "Yeah, yeah, the person's no good, but
there's still that love," that desire, that connection, that feeling
that if this little hump or hurdle can just be gotten over, there's a
beautiful life ahead.

But always remember -- when your reader tells you that the problem is not you, and the problem is not an enemy, then the question is: Are you, or your reader, going to be able to fix that little "broken toy," you know what I'm saying? I always imagine them as like a little windup toy, and I say, "Well, their little winder got over-wound by somebody else, and now I've got a toy with a broken winder." And I'm going, "Mm! Mm! Such a pretty little toy, and I love him so much, and he's so dear to me! But if only I could get him to wind up! Do I have to take him apart, the whole insides, and rebuild him? Can I?" And I don't always know if I can. A couple of times, I've done it. A couple of times, I've failed miserably. So do not attach yourself to the results here, hon.

Mark: Okay.

Miss cat: Do it out of love for him, that he may be happy. I don't
think, from these cards -- he's not a dog by nature.

Mark: No, I don't think so either.

Miss cat: His idea to play the field is partly out of fear, because
that's an easier thing to do than to really settle down. I would do
some Blessing candles for him; I would --

Mark: I'm sorry, I don't mean to interrupt; is that what they're
called -- Blessing candles?

Miss cat: Yes. A Blessing candle is just a straight-up candle you use
to bless any situation. Let me explain for a second. They are to
bless any kind of a new venture; people will buy them to bless and new
boat they just bought, or to bless their new baby when their baby's
born, or to bless their job, or their new house; they use it to bless
a person who is in poor health but doesn't need a Healing candle, just
a Blessing candle. You read into it whatever blessing you wish. We
call into it what we want to happen in it. And those are a very
simple kind of work to do, but they are done from a pure heart. And
you're going to have to stand a little bit above and apart from this
to do that kind of work. In other words, to get the ice to melt
around this man's heart, you're going to have to say a few prayers on
his behalf.

Now, he may not have courage, which is another thing that Dr. Kioni
said. Again, when you bless the candles, you can use whatever oils
you like. There is an oil which we call Crucible of Courage.

Remember what Dr. Kioni said about the 3 of Wands and the Sun in
Aries? Crucible of Courage has that kind of energy. It's to give a
person courage, but it can be any kind of courage. It can be used for
a person going into the army, to give them courage to perform under
stress and an under fire. But it can be also used to give someone the
courage to say no to somebody -- or courage to say yes to somebody.
It can be used to soothe a person's inner dialogue and fear.

Another one is Tranquility, and that is to simply get a person to RELAX.

So what I'm suggesting is Blessing candles dressed with a combination
of Tranquility and Crucible of Courage oils. Make a prayer for him.
Now, do you have a photo of him?

Mark: Yes.

Miss cat: All right. So you get yourself a nice frame, and you're
going to put his photo in that frame. Now, I've told this to people
many times, and Dr. Kioni's going to go, "Oh, yes, that one again."
But it works.

You take that frame, and when you take off the back of that frame,
there's going to be a piece of padding, cardboard or foam. You're
going to take that out, and get an envelope that fits in there. If
you want to be very neat, you cut the padding with a little hole, so
that the envelope just fits in there. And in that envelope, you're
going to put the following items:

I want you to put a letter -- of your writing -- of your thoughts and
feelings and emotions, the most you want from the relationship, the
love you have, the desires you have, and -- above all! -- conclude it
with your blessing. Conclude it with your wish that this man be happy
-- that Cesar be happy whether with you or without you; that he find
the courage to take command of his own love life in such a way that he
can truly say, "This is what I want to do"; that he be honest, that
he be forthright, and that he be generous of soul and spirit -- you
just say whatever you want. That's your prayer; you write that like a
letter; a "letter to God" is what I call it.

Now it with that, I want you to put some herbs. You had already
gotten some Deer's Tongue?

Mark: Yes.

Miss cat: That's a beautiful one! That's exactly right. You've been
on the right track with the things you've been getting. And the
Wintergreen herb, that's good too. And I would also say you might
also want to use may be a little Althaea herb, or Angelica.

Mark: Althea?

Miss cat: Althaea. It's called "the healer." The name Althaea is a
woman's name, but it's really a Greek word that means healer. And I
know, because I named my daughter Althaea, and -- guess what -- she
grew up to be a doctor. Now, you can use the herb or the root. In
soft cases we use the herb, and in hard cases we use the root. Now,
I'm going to call this a case of softness and generosity; kindness of
spirit is what's called for, so the Althaea leaf will be fine. That is to bring benevolent spirits -- the opposite of the Intranquil Spirit. This is to bring healing spirits. So you're going to put that in with the letter.

And then something personal of his, whether his hair, or something
[else] you can get of him.

Okay, those three things: Deer's Tongue, Althea leaf, and something
personal of his.

Mark: Put that in the envelope.

Miss cat: Right.

Mark: And Wintergreen.

Miss cat: And you can put Wintergreen in, too, if you want to put in
more things. But those three, and the letter, is fine.

Now, put them in the envelope, and I want you to dust the envelope with some of those powders that are from the oils that I recommended. For instance, you might want to use Blessing, or you might want to use
Crucible of Courage. Probably Crucible of Courage would be good. And
you want to use some love powder. You can pick whichever one you
like. Fire of Love is a good one; Lavender Love is a good one. Let's
just say Lavender Love. You want to take a couple of powders -- a
love powder and a courage powder. Another powder some people use is
Chuparrosa. Chuparrosa is for honesty in love.

Mark: You mean like a Chuparrosa candle?

Miss cat: Uh-huh! It says on it, "May we have a relationship that is
honest and true." Many people use Chuparrosa when they're a little
confused about the direction things are going. So you could burn
Chuparrosa candles also. Chuparrosa powder is also a good one for
that particular situation. It encourages honesty. It's not like
Compelling, like "TELL ME THE TRUTH OR ELSE!" It's like, "By the
Divine Hummingbird, by the beauty and the joy of spring, tell me the
truth. Be honest, be real."

So, those are the things that you put into that. The powders will go
into the envelope, and you dust the envelope, right? Reassemble the
picture in the frame, and then you're going to anoint of the frame
with those oils. Again, you can use Chuparrosa, Crucible of Courage
or Tranquility. And as you apply them -- you can blend them, but as
you add each one, you have to call what they're for. Tranquility --
to calm him down, so that today does not look like the past. Today is
seen as today only, and he's going to take a deep breath and say
'Here's where I am right now.' Crucible of Courage -- to speak his
mind, to say what he needs, to have the courage to trust. Chuparrosa
-- to be honest with you. And say that: "Chuparrosa -- so he can be
honest with me, and tell me where he's really at." With those things,
you really can't go wrong. Those are positive; they are going to help
him; they are going to help you understand what's going on; because as
you do them, you're going to see some kind of change. Now, you can
also make a honey jar. Have you ever done that?

Mark: I have one, yes.

Miss cat: Good. You could put the honey jar by the picture and the
candle; make yourself a little altar. And sometimes I will put out a
little glass of water -- not much, just a little glass of water -- and
call my prayers, and call on all good spirits who might be of help.
Some people will use the water, if they are burning freestanding
candles, to wash the candles first, and then let them dry. Other
people will use that water -- you can feel if that water has received
good spiritual energy -- some will actually use it to wash their own
face with.

Mark: That was one of my questions -- who to call on. Are you just
saying "all good spirits"?

miss cat: Well, in this case, yes, I would -- well, all right. I
could tell you some saints. Would you --

Mark: No, no, no. Sometimes I [just] get confused, with reading and
getting other things -- I didn't want to do the wrong thing.

Miss cat: Oh, there's no "wrong thing" --

Mark: I never know who to call on.

Miss cat: But what I'm saying -- in a situation like this, where you
have not reached "first" or "second base," you need to call on the
good spirits first.

Mark: I gotcha. I gotcha. I only ask because I've been steered the
wrong way so bad, some people telling me call on St. Martha, you know,
and the Intranquil Spirit ...

Miss cat: To me, Martha the Dominator is for a wife who's got a
husband who won't behave -- or a man who's got a boyfriend who won't
behave.

Mark: We haven't even gotten to that level yet.

Miss cat: No, we're looking to bring in the love. As far as saints --
St. Sebastian is a true saint of gay love. On the other hand, if you
notice, St. Sebastian is all stuck with arrows.

[Mark laughs]

Miss cat: Now, that does show the willingness to martyr yourself. But
if you feel that, then that's good.

And that's going to bring me to the next thing as far as calling on a
spirit of love to help free him. Because he's looking at this
reversed Devil thing, and going, "No, no, no, no" -- he's scared. I
would say call upon the good spirits to try to help him.

Now, the other thing I want you to do is for your own sake. You can
be compassionate and loving when a person is in a situation like this,
as long as you -- see, because now you know; it's not your fault. You
didn't mess this up. So let yourself rest easy on that account. Now
the next question is: How much of your time do you want to spend on
this? that's where you're going to have to make the decision. When
working with somebody who is not open, I recommend to all my clients,
and I recommend to myself -- I say this through hard-won experience that cost me four years of my life; don't make the mistake I did.

Sit down and say: "How long shall I work on this?" By the time I sat
down, three years had passed. And I said, "One more year."

[Laughter]

Miss cat: What a fool I was! But during that year, I came to see that
when you set that time -- and really, that was what I asked: "Lord, how long?"

I had known this person I was involved with for 26 years, and it seemed like an open-ended situation.

Mark: Right.

Miss cat: But finally, after three years, I said: "Alright, I've been
lied to, and I've been promised, and I've been hurt, and I've been
given, and I've been taken from, and it's just -- it blows hot, it
blows cold, it's good, it's bad, it's going nowhere but in circles,
fast. And I need to ask, "How long more?" And it was like a voice in
my head, you know, I just asked the Lord, and he said, "One year and one day."

Now, I've had people talk to me on the phone and say, "Oh, if Skippy's
not going to be with me on my birthday, it's over!" They know -- you
know what I mean? They don't even need to sit down and ask a
prayer. I always tell people to light a little white candle for
yourself -- you know, a little 4-inch candle -- a birthday candle,
doesn't matter, [even] a little tea light -- just any kind of little
candle -- sit there quietly in a meditative posture, and say, "Lord,
how long shall I do this work for the love of Cesar?" And you'll hear
an answer. It may be an amount of time, or it may be a date:
"If we're not together on Thanksgiving serving a turkey to our
friends, it's over." It just depends. You'll hear it. It'll be just
whatever it is for you.

Well, then during that time, you are to ask him only a certain amount
of questions. And, again, you can ask [God] for that number. I
asked, "How many times can I check my work during that period?" And
the answer I received was, "Three times only." And so I actually
consulted a calendar, and I spaced it out so I got my three spaces there, and I asked -- and I'm going to tell you my situation, so I can tell you how I knew where it was going to go. The first time I asked
[him], "Where do you see as being in five years?" And he answered,
"Oh, I love you, I want to be with you. I'm leaving her, I'm moving out."

Next time I asked, "Okay, where do you see us?" And he said, "I don't
know, I'd like to see you every six months or so."

Mark [laughing at the audacity]: Got a change, didn't you?

Miss cat: Yeah, right. So we just went downhill. What I'm trying to
get to is that the number three was my number. You might be told
to ask only once, or even never to ask,0 just watch. Sometimes people
are told to just watch and wait. But you don't be bugging the person
with questions.

But during that time, work the honey jar and work the candles. You
don't have to be burning candles continually. You can burn a candle
once a week. If you want to use those vigil lights, they last now --
what with the war and the rise in the price of oil -- what used to be
a nine-day candle, and then a seven-day candle, is now about a
five-day candle. So one a week is fine. Or you can just burn a
6-inch candle once a week.

Mark: Are the Blessing candles seven-day candles, or is this just --

Miss cat: Yeah. Now we just call them vigil lights, and the heck with
the number of days. And they're just a prayer candle.

Mark: Are they a certain color ?

Miss cat: They're white.

It's like the story of the widow's mite. If you go down to the
discount store and buy 40 little white candles, that's just as good in
God's eyes. But just dress them with those oils and carve your
petitions in them. Light one a week, at least. And if you want to,
light one on the honey jar. These are little freestanding candles.

Mark: Okay, I can put a white candle on the honey jar as well?

Miss cat: Well, if you use the Blessing candle on the honey jar, it'll
be unstable -- a heavy candle on a little jar. But what I'm talking
about is: you know those little star [shaped] candleholders? They
cost 50¢, and you can put a little candle in them on top of the honey
jar, and it just melts right to the jar.

Mark: Okay, I've been doing that, but I've been lighting orange
candles for a Road Opener.

Miss cat: Road Opener is good, too. You can alternate them, actually. These Road Opener candles you've been doing are a very good idea.
I'm still concerned that the major problem is him and not the road,
you know what I'm saying? It's not the road, it's the man at the end
of the road.

So those are some of the things you can do. I would not, at this
time, suggest doing a doll baby on him. I think that might be a
little too strong.

Mark: You see, I bought one -- I haven't done anything -- to Do As I
Say. I haven't done it.

Miss cat: You might, if things get a little more strong -- see, I can
see why you said you might have come on too strong, because I can see
that you have this tendency: "I want to get this Do As I Say doll
baby, I want an Intranquility candle."

[Laughter]

Miss cat: But really, he's a little skittish for that right now, in my
opinion. What do you think, Dr. Kioni?

Dr. Kioni: I do think that gentle approach is appropriate, especially
seeing that this man has some relationship issues that are latent; and
he needs to resolve those issues. I do concur. As a normal, standard
practice, I do tell people that they should set a time that they're
going to commit to the work, and then make a determination, if they
have not gotten the results they are seeking, as to what to do next:
to move on, or whatever. I do concur with Cat.

Now, I also -- [laughing] The little devil on my shoulder is telling
me, "Yeah, but he wants to seduce him!"

Mark: Dr. Kioni, you must have read my mind, because I was just about
to ask -- I think we had a conversation one time, and I was just about
to ask, "Should I continue?" At one time you advised me to get
different types of powders to put on red candles, exactly for
seduction. Should I see to that? Every now and then I do it --
obviously it hasn't really done too much -- but I had done that, and
you mention grinding the powders: I think it was Abre Camino, Amanso
[?] Guapo, Cambio, and Ven a Mi, and When to Call [?], and I was
supposed to whittle them up into, like, powder. And I was supposed to
place them, maybe, around his house, something like that. I'm just
asking. I did that one time and I didn't do anything more.

Dr. Kioni: And what happened when you did [it] that one time? What
occurred?

Mark: Actually, the thing -- he started to -- he would come, he would
call, hang out, he would get close, we would start kissing, and he
would push away. So, that's been the M.O. [modus operandi, standard
procedure] for the whole thing. Things have worked to a certain
point, but I can't seem to get over the hurdle.

Dr. Kioni: I would suggest to you to go nice and slow right now.

Mark: Okay. That's fine.

Dr. Kioni: And as far as heating things up, seduction-wise, I believe
those things can be done a little bit at a time, such as: if you're
having him over, brew some Damiana tea. Either [give it to Cesar
to] drink that by itself, or -- honey and wine -- that is another
great elixir. Add a little bit of yourself to that elixir as you give
it to him; you need to feed him some of you. [Laughing] You can get
two -- Everybody knows this is for an adult audience, but it just gets
so good sometimes! -- Get your self two rooster feathers -- ROOSTER
feathers, okay? Not hens, but roosters! You're going to want to bury
one of these feathers somewhere where he can walk over it, whether
it's by your front door, wherever he enters into your apartment or
house.

But before you put this feather in the ground, you want todress it with, like the Lavender oil [Lavender Love Drops? -- MCM], Look Me Over, Kiss Me Now, Dixie Love -- I'm sure Cat could name some other oils. And, of course, a little bit of the Compelling Oil, because you want to kind of provoke him and stir him up a little bit. Attraction Oil, Fast Luck, any of those things will work with that.

Also, dress the rooster feather with yourself, lastly. And call his
name into the spell, and that he will, as a rooster in the henhouse,
be to you. You follow me?

Mark: I follow you!

Dr. Kioni: "As the rooster shall be in the henhouse, so shall you be
to me," okay? And you can go from there with it when you want to fix
that up.

The second feather, I would suggest you, if you can grind it up really
fine into a powder, like a dust, after having dressed it and allowed
it to dry. Grind it up into a really fine powder like a dust, and
then add it to any of the condition powders that you have, of any of
the same names as the foregoing that we have talked about. And mix
that together and use it, not only on your body, but also on your
sheets, around your bed, around your front door, and anything that you
would prepare to give to him. Let's say you give him a Hallmark card
-- you know, "I'm thinking about you," etc. Dress it with that
mixture that includes the rooster feather that you have prepared, and
again, call him to you.

Now there's a whole lot more that you can do with lodestones, etc.,
etc., which are tricks you probably know. And I'm giving you
something that is a little bit different that I have seen work. I
have seen this work. Now, if it were same-sex, it would be a rooster
and a hen feather --

Miss cat: Not same-saex!

Dr. Kioni: Not same-sex, but heterosexual, thank you. A rooster and a
hen feather, and the other components of the spell would remain the same.

Miss cat: And if it was two women, it would be two hen feathers.

Dr. Kioni: Bingo!

Miss cat: There's a root that's used this way too, called Unicorn Root.

Dr. Kioni: Unicorn Root, that's right.

Mark: I've been reading about that!

Miss cat: It's also used by gay men. You bind the two Unicorn Roots
together -- same type of situation -- but in this case you're tying
and binding them together. I'm going to take the opportunity to talk
about the gender attributions of different herbs and roots. We don't
often get to talk to an out gay guy about this, so bear with me for a
moment here.

We all know that John the Conqueror Root is considered a male root,
that Queen Elizabeth Root is considered a female root. Some gay
couples will choose the appropriate gender role root, if one of them
is more male-like, or butch-like, and the other more female-like.
Some gay and lesbian couples, however, do not have gender roles of
that type.

Mark: All right.

Miss cat: So they will want roots that are of equal -- whatever, you
know? One of the things that we've noticed -- we deal with these roots
all the time, we are buying them in large, large amounts -- and we
sort them by size and shape and all that. One of the things that we
notice, which we call "specials," which are --

John the Conqueror Root is a teardrop-shaped root, which looks kind of
like a man's testicles. One testicle. Sometimes you get a pair. But
every once in a while -- and it's rare -- you'll get a very
unusual-looking John the Conqueror Root. It'll look like a female
member. But they'll be the John the Conquer Root. They are very
popular with people who are intersex, who are transgendered, bisexual,
whatever -- because they have both genders in them.

And one of the things that we do also with lodestones is the same
thing: we have lodestones that are very definitely male-looking,
female looking, and we'll put aside special pairs. If you want to
work that way, it's certainly always available to you, if you work with a supplier who individually hand-picks the roots or lodestones for you. And we set these aside.

Another one is Queen Elizabeth Root. Every once in a while you'll
find one that looks like the opposite gender, that instead of looking
kind of female, looks kind of male. So we put these aside for people.

And the reason I mention this is because of these Unicorn Roots. The
Unicorn Root, of course, looks like a horn. And, of course, it's got
the male thing going on. That's why it's used in gay love spells, to
tie two of them together, as with two rooster feathers -- two male
things -- roots and minerals and zoological curios that have gendered
appearances. That's what we're talking about here, when we talk about
the rooster feathers.

Mark: No, that's fine.

Miss cat: Because that is something that doesn't get talked about
often, because everyone sort of assumes that everyone is heterosexual,
but that's just not the case, you know.

[Mark laughs]

Miss cat: We need to be able to discuss how these things are done in
those other cases.

Mark: Now the Unicorn Root, is that something you can get here?

Miss cat: You're going to have to ask around for that.

Mark: Okay, because that's going to be hard to find.

Miss cat: It is hard to find. I don't have a source for it at this
time. I'm working with a guy right now who is trying to get me rare
things and to grow rare things for me. And, in a year or two, I may
be able to have a nice supply. Because to me, what you get -- maybe I
can get it chopped up and ground up -- but that's not what I'm talking
about.

Mark: You're talking about the whole root.

Miss cat: The whole root. Now, another route that you could use that
way is Master Root, to master a situation. Master Root comes as a
whole root, which is a long, twisted root. People will take and bind
the names of someone -- you can slip a piece of paper all amongst the
-- the legs of this root. It looks sort of like an octopus that's
been all flattened out in one direction. And you can put thin pieces
of paper -- names, wishes -- you can bind hair around in them -- and
you can get creative with the Master Root. The Master Root is the master; you are the master. You can bind people to you. It can be done for other reasons than -- not just sexuality. For -- like, for instance, with your boss, or people on the job. But Master Root's another one that we tie that way, just the way we tie the Unicorn Roots.

Mark: I would get two Master Roots, you're saying?

Miss Cat: No, you'd want the one. You tie all the little legs down to
the main core of the root.

Dr. Kioni: I love Master Root, and it has a really great smell as
well. It's a great root to work with.

Miss Cat: It's very interesting.

So those are some of the ideas as far as controlling, and --

Mark: Yes, they are. All different; some of these, I've never even
heard of, so that's good.

Miss Cat: Well, that's the thing; everybody has their own individual
ways of working. Now, of course, the two lodestones is always good.
If you have ever worked with the small lodestones -- you know, name
one for him and one for you; dress it with your own "stuff," and with
the oils. See if you can get the other lodestone planted where he
will walk over it, or even possibly slip it into his pocket; it'll
look like a piece of gravel, as far as he's concerned.

Mark: Okay.

Miss Cat: It's a really good thing to take two large lodestones and
work them closer, closer, closer. Feed them with magnetic sand; feed
them with the perfumes and, you know, all the stuff, your personal
concerns. But on the two big lodestones, as you work them closer and
closer, you have your two little lodestone grits; and they're the
riders -- we call them riders, and they ride like on a horse. When
the big lodestones come together, they [the riders] come together, and
they've been really empowered by being on the two big lodestones, you see.

And then you pull the two little ones off, and then you can do things
with them. I've even known people to swallow one.

Mark: Oh -- okay.

Miss Cat: I mean they just take and swallow it!

[Mark laughs]

Miss Cat: I'm not kidding, I've seen them do it. They're little tiny
things.

Mark: They're little tiny, okay.

Dr. Kioni: Little pea-sized lodestones.

Miss Cat: It's not like you're swallowing a big magnet or anything.

Dr. Kioni: They're real pea-sized, you know?

Mark: Okay, yeah, yeah.

Miss Cat: Or people will take and put it in a little oil, you know, to
gestate in that oil, and then use that oil. But you can also bury
that one -- you know, like "The Princess and the Pea," with the pea
under the mattress? You can put it under your mattress, between the
mattress and box spring, and the other one you're going to try to get
on him. Or buried where he has to step over it. "Every time you step
over the lodestone, you'll be drawn to me." And you can use the
little ones -- once they've been a rider on a big one, they pick up
the power from the ritual that you've enacted on the big one.

Mark: All right -- those are some good tips!

Dr. Kioni: Also, you might want to -- this might be a little difficult
for you -- if you could get a little bit of a hair off of a rabbit.
You know why I mention rabbits: they like to Do It.

[Laughter]

Dr. Kioni: Get a little hair off that rabbit and add that to your
spell work. Even possibly a rabbit's foot, but a live rabbit would be
best to get some hair, to clip a little bit of fur off of him.

Miss Cat: You know what they used to tell me, when they would tell me
that sort of thing? They would say, "Get it from around the tail, but
not exactly were the tail is."

[Laughter]

Dr. Kioni: Yeah, and with the rooster, it's best to get the feathers
from a live rooster, okay? You just take them, because that's what you
want him to do -- to take you.

[Laughter]

Mark: Okay -- I got you!

Dr. Kioni: The Doctrine of Signatures and the Law of Correspondence at
work here.

Miss Cat: Do you have any more questions about what we've been talking
about here? Any place you want us to explain further?

Mark: No, you've been quite thorough. Not quite what I wanted to
hear, but I can still work on it.

Miss Cat: Yes. Like I said, set yourself that time limit. Check
yourself during the course of that work and see how it's going. He's
under quite a cloud.

Mark: At least I know that it wasn't me, because, actually, that's
what I kept thinking, "I'm just doing things too wrong," or whatever,
"I'm pushing too hard."

Miss Cat: No, it wasn't you at all. It's him.

Dr. Kioni: I would hasten to add that an additional spell could be a
lamp spell, similar to a money lamp. Instead, it's for --

Miss Cat: A love light.

Dr. Kioni: Yes.

Mark: A lamp spell?

Miss Cat: Have you ever heard that old song, "Turn on your love light
/ Let it shine on me"?

Mark: Yeah, yeah, yeah!

Miss Cat: That's it. That's what you do. You get yourself an oil
lamp -- and they make these olive oil lamps, [or] you can get yourself
kerosene lamp oil -- and if you do, you can dye the lamp oil red, to
get the red lamp oil, if you want. And in that red lamp oil, in that
lamp or "love light," as you might call it, you're going to put some
things in the reservoir: Blood Root is good -- you want two pieces of
Blood Root -- two pieces of Lodestone, two Balm of Gilead buds. They
won't catch fire; it doesn't matter if they're wood, or a root like
that, because they're just going to be soaking there in the bottom [of
the reservoir, where the flame will not come near them -- MCM], and
the wick will be pulling up the oil. And you can keep that thing
going continuously.

The kerosene lamps do smell, and you can make an olive oil type lamp;
it's a little more gentle on the nose. You do have to fill them more
often.

Mark: The olive oil ones?

Miss Cat: Yeah. You can find different kinds of oil lamps. You'll
find them at Home Depot or wherever. But what you need is [one] where
you can put in the reservoir the items that you are going to want:
Blood Root pieces --

Mark: Two lodestones --

Miss Cat: Two Balm of Gilead buds -- yes, everything in pairs like
that. And if you put them in like that and pray over them as you go,
that makes your love light. And the love light will just keep on
radiating for you. It's like a perpetual candle. It's also drawing
energy from these things that are in the reservoir.

Mark: And I just put my name paper and everything, right?

Miss Cat: Yes. If you get an old kerosene lamp, they usually have a
hollow base, and you can actually put the name paper up inside in that
hollow.

Dr. Kioni: Under the bottom, you mean.

Miss Cat: Yes, up under the bottom: his name, your name, crisscrossed
and all that stuff. I've known people to take a little piece of lead
foil, the kind that used to come on the champagne bottles. I don't
know if they still make it with lead foil because of the danger of
lead, but they probably use some kind of soft metal foil, like zinc
foil. And then flatten that thing out, and write your names
crisscross like you would on paper, but you're just writing into the
lead. Roll that thing up and put it in the kerosene lamp. So your
names crisscross, with "Love, love, love, love, love" written all around.

Mark: Does it matter how many times [the names are written]? I've
heard so many things: sometimes it's three, sometimes it's seven,
sometimes it's nine. I get so confused.

Miss Cat: Different people will say different things. I walked into a
candle shop and watched the proprietor argue with his own manager over
how many times -- "Have them write it down three times." "I said
seven times!"

[Laughter]

Miss Cat: I do what seems right -- depending on the size of the paper;
depending on the dedication of the person; depending on how long the
name is; depending on the time of the moon -- I don't know. What I
say is what the Spirit tells me to say; sometimes it's once, sometimes
it's three, sometimes it's seven, or nine. I've never gone any longer
than nine, but I once walked into a candle shop down in Oakland
[California], and Bishop White was there -- a wonderful old lady, who
has since passed, but she was just a great teacher and a great root
doctor. Somebody came in, and I didn't see what they were there for,
but she had a little piece of lined notepaper -- one of those little
memo pads -- and she said: "Write down your name thirteen times." And
he goes, "Thirteen times!" And she says, "Yeah, thirteen times." So
he wrote it down 13 times, and she tore the paper out and said, "Okay,
I'm keeping it." And she never said what it was for!

[Mark laughs]

Miss Cat: And it wasn't my business, I was sort of, like, overhearing,
you know.

But mostly three -- seven -- nine -- those are the most common.

Mark: Three, seven, nine, those are the most common, and it just
depends on what spirit is telling you. And then my name over theirs,
right?

Miss Cat: Yes, crisscross. And then what I often will do is write the
command in a circle, especially for love. Write "love, love, love,
love, love, love, love, love, love," around in a circle. And then in
the four corners, because I usually use a kind of square piece of
paper, I will put four hearts [one in each corner], or maybe a pair of
hearts pierced by one arrow, I'll draw those in the four corners.
I'll do what I can to put my feelings into that paper. It's not just
a mechanical act of writing, but I really put a lot into it.

Mark: Okay. I got what you're saying. All right! I appreciate all
this help.

Dr. Kioni: It's been wonderful to have you here on the show, Mark, and
to talk about this chapter in your life, and we do wish you well with
this relationship with Cesar. By all means, keep us updated with your
progress, okay?

[Station ID by Dr. Kioni

MUSIC OUTRO: Jug Band Waltz by Will Shade and the Memphis Jug Band]