Lucky Mojo Hoodoo Rootwork Hour #04-08: Money Magic (Miss Cat, Dr. Kioni)

[CKioni]

Scheduled Conference Date: Wednesday, August 04, 2004
Scheduled Start Time: 10:00 p.m. Eastern Daylight Time
Scheduled End Time: 10:55 p.m. Eastern Daylight Time
Dial-in Number: 1-413-200-7060 (Plainfield, MA)
Participant Access Code: 7822377

Last weeks stats are great! We had 20 people to listen via the phone bridge and quite a few listened via The Positive Vibes Radio Network at http://DrKioni.com .

Remember to share your suggestions for future shows. Your feedback is important and most welcomed.

Happy Hoodooing!
Dr. Kioni

_____________________________________________________________
Do You Hoodoo? Visit DrKioni.com -Your Hoodoo Rootwork CyberCommunity. $$¢¢$$

[catherineyronwode]

Here are a few addenda to the post from Dr. Kioni for the Wednesday,
August 4th, radio show:

Subject: Money and Prosperity Spells

Format: the first 1/2 hour will consist of spells and tips from your
co-hosts and other professional rootworkers. The second 1/2 hour we
welcome and encourage questions and comments from listeners. During the
first 1/2 of the show, please press "6" to mute your phone. During the
second 1/2 hour, press "6" again to un-mute yourself when you want to
be heard.

Tips: No speaker phones, please, if you are going to be talking,
because the volume on them is unpredictable. Also, athough the phone
bridge automated system asks you to announce yourself, please don't do
so if you come in late, as you will be heard speaking over someone
else. Best time to announce yourself is a minute before start-time --
we all say hello then and listen to the lead-in music.

[Quimbisero]

Hello,

I am still waiting to find last Wednesday's show on Dr. Kioni's website. I really was sorry I
missed it but consoled myself with the thought I could listen to it the next day. I still can't
find it.

Hope it will make it online eventually. The topic is always one worth attending to.

Eoghan

[BluesEdge]

Please advise me of corrections or changes. Thanks.

Can we have a hour on working with spirits in our spell or ritual work.

Another thought was about the action of meditation or energy raising and how or does it have a place in hoodoo. I don't know maybe this is not a topic for the hour and if not can you address it and it's relation to hoodoo in the hrcourse forum.

Thanks, Enchantress Blue

*****************************************************************************

Tonight's show began with the somber and informative news of the passing of Joseph B. Wilson. The news of his life was an introduction to some of us, including myself, and a remembrance for others. A man, whose life's path was spent dedicated to Paganism and its infusion with other systems, including Hoodoo.

Ms. Yronwode shared with us her fond memories of him and how important his life contributions have been to the protection and preservation of our rich magikal heritage. We give thanks for such a life always interrupted to soon. We ask for blessings and strength to all family and friends, known and unknown for the light of Joseph B. Wilson.

Money Money Money Money

Everybody wants it and wants to know how we make it magickally appear. The spirits have blessed us with wonderful herbs; cinnamon, ginger, and nutmeg to name a few. Properly dressing money affirming it with your wealth or claiming your rightful prosperity are all aspects to creating abundance.

The hour progressed with a few professional recipes provided by experts Dr. Kioni, Ms. Yronwode, and Mambo Angel. All three shared with us some of their affirming techniques and we even got a "secret" or two. This informative session was chock-full of helpful processes that require first and foremost changing the mindset when it comes to money. One of the most responsible and wisest stances that we can do to help ourselves and others is to understand the truths and discipline of money. Tonight's leadership takes one through that progression.

Understanding the changing of thought applications and its cycle contributed by Mambo Angel, the connection of paying bills to an universal circle; Dr. Kioni and helping those in need right away without the expectation of payment; Ms. Yronwode tie together these powerful preparations. Merging with these understandings tonight's forum creates the magickal sphere in which we can all embark upon wealth, money, and prosperity.

This hour is full of so much information that one must listen and learn for one's self. Remember if you missed the hour you can get your bird's eye view by logging on to www.drkioni.com <http://www.drkioni.com/>. You will also be able to listen to subsequent broadcast by using the links to them.

So, fellow Hoodooers, make sure you look out for information on the upcoming Lucky Mojo Hoodoo Rootwork Hour it's too good to miss! Blessings to all, Enchantress Blue

[Quimbisero]

I do not know what Cat's or Dr. Kioni's take on this question is, but "energy raising" per se seems to me much more a Wiccan/Neo-Pagan concept than it does anything I am used to in Afro-diasporic traditions.

(I agree. I don't recall any of us using the term "energy raising" -- i am pretty sure i wouldn;t, because to me that phrase has specific meanings in Neo-Pagan ritual work and in Hermetic work -- but not in hoodoo. To the best of my recollection, we spoke of the use of affirmations and prayers, using graveyard and other dirt from wealthy people, of marking money, and of remaining focussed on the work. --cat)

In Palo and other spirit oriented traditions, and while possession is not quite as evident in today's Hoodoo it certainly was something Hyatt's informants were aware of and is hinted at in Hurston's writings, Spirits are the source of the power and it is not a raw energy that people raise themselves. This is generally true of African and Afro-diasporic traditions. You don't raise power, you call on a spirit. You don't generally meditate, you become possessed, or you pray to and invoke spirits, deities, Aunt Cecilia, etc.

(Thank you. That is how i see it too. --cat)

Just my dos kilos,

Eoghan

[CKioni]

>Subject: Synopsis Money Hour 08/04/2004

Enchantress Blue, thank you for an excellent synopsis of the Luckymojo Hoodoo Rootwork Hour! Keep up the great work, I look forward to reading the next synopsis.

Happy Hoodooing,
Dr. Kioni



_____________________________________________________________
Do You Hoodoo? Visit DrKioni.com -Your Hoodoo Rootwork CyberCommunity. $$¢¢$$

[Etudiant Ancetres]

Quimbisero Eoghan

I have a question. Who's Aunt Cecilia? I've never heard of that spirit before.

My other question is that I know that the spirits are the source of power, but isn't it also the power of the practitioner that takes part as expressed through one's prayers in conjuring?

Marc

[Quimbisero]

Hello Marc,

Aunt Cecilia is just a name. It could be Aunt Lil, or Uncle Paul, or
anyone else. Sorry, I assumed everyone would get my point, but it was
a reasonable question and I could have worded it more clearly.

As for the other question, I can only answer from my own opinion and
viewpoint, which comes from my personal practice and experience. I do
not view myself as having any "power." When what i do works, it is
because the spirits have been willing. As far as I can see, it has
nothing to do with my energy or intent what so ever. I have done work
where i expended a great deal of "energy" and attention to the job,
both with and without investing any emotion in it, and also occassions
where I paid almost no attention to the job. There seems to be no
correlation between any of the efforts I've expended and the results.
Sometimes with a great deal of effort, the results are mediocre or
they can be good. Sometimes with almost no attention to the job, it
works stupendously. Now, I'd like to say that I approach every job
with the same level of enthusiasm and attention, but who are we
kidding? Nobody is 100% all the time.

Go figure. For that reason, I always say that if it works well, it has
nothing to do with me. My spirits get the credit. I don't.

Malembe,

Eoghan

[mpambunzila]

Eoghan said,

"In Palo and other spirit oriented traditions...(snip)... Spirits are the source of the power and it is not a raw energy that people raise themselves. This is generally true of African and Afro-diasporic traditions. You don't raise power, you call on a spirit."

Eoghan is correct. This is true for some cultures but certainly not all. I'd like to toss in some examples of "Energy" in African & African diaspora traditions, and then make a case for its existence in traditional Kongo practice and Hoodoo.

Among the Yoruba, there is the concept of ase (variously spelled ashe, ache, and axe depending on the diaspora culture.) Ase can be translated as "So be it," "Amen," and "The power to make things happen." It is an energy found throughout Nature that can be gathered and wielded for magical purposes such as healings, etc. Ase is an integral part of any ritual; without ase, nothing happens. The African diaspora traditions such as Umbanda, Candomble, Santeria, etc, all place a strong emphasis on ase. It is a fundamental concept. Energy.

Among the Mande speaking people, a nearly identical concept is nyama. Again, this is an energy found in Nature that can be manipulated by specialists for magical purposes. What sets nyama slightly apart from ase is the Mande emphasis on human speech (such as the voice of a Griot) as a container of nyama - and, indeed, a transmitter of nyama. Nyama is certainly not restricted to the human voice, however. Like ase, it is everywhere, yet only specialists can manipulate it.

In many, many African Diaspora faiths, the concept of Energy is well known from the teachings of Allan Kardec. Kardecism (also known as Spiritism) relies heavily on the manipulation of Healing Energy by "Passes" of the hands. Although Kardecists work with spirits, the Kardecist idea of "Passes" comes directly from Anton Mesmer, whose theory of Animal Magnetism was not based on Spirit invocation. "Passes" are strictly a manipulation of healing energy by the practitioner. So in the Spiritist-influenced traditions of Umbanda, Santeria, etc, European concepts of Energy merge with traditional West African concepts of Energy.

The concept of Energy is also found in Hoodoo and traditional Kongo practices. As we know, certain plants have known attributes and are therefore selected for use in an Nkisi or mojo for a specific purpose. Granted, in the case of an Nkisi it is Spirit (the animating Nkisi itself) that puts into action the desired result - but the correct result is also made possible by putting the correct plant & animal material within the Nkisi sculpture. (If you select the wrong plants, you won't have the correct result.) Likewise, a mojo contains specific plant & animal material because of their attributes. If you called these attributes the specific "ase" or "nyama" of that plant it would be an accurate use of those words. Each plant has a specific energy.

So although "Energy" might not be a term used in traditional Hoodoo, the concept is there none-the-less. We might not like the choice of that word, but it is not a foreign concept. The plant & animal materials used in Hoodoo do indeed have an "energy" that is manipulated by the rootworker.


Taylor

(Thanks, Taylor. I might also add that the 19th century African American sex magician, Rosicrician, and spiritualist Paschal Beverly Randolph (who predated Kardec) also used what you call "passes" of the hands, and he was a student of Mesmer's work. Second, i think that in addition to the spirits of plants and such, which you rightly mention, calling someone's name when doing a spell on them is a form of working with energy, at least in my experience. I mean, in mechanistic terms you are merely causing the air to vibrate, as if you had played a tape with their name recorded on it, but in practical work, calling someone's name has an effect beyond that of simply playing a tape recording their name being spoken. Since what is happening is not merely physical, it might be said to partake of some form of "energy" -- although that term is not usually used in hoodoo. --cat)

[BluesEdge]

> Enchantress Blue, thank you for an excellent
> synopsis of the Luckymojo Hoodoo Rootwork Hour!
> Keep up the great work, I look forward to
> reading the next synopsis.

Thank you for the opportunity, Dr. Kioni.

(I second that -- thanks to both of you! --cat)

[Rig Ahntona]

Its Wednesday, its 6pm (Central Time) and there is still no notification as to the number to dial or the code to access the hour. I checked at the yahoo groups to see if there was a message posted there and its not anywhere on Dr. Kioni's website either.

(Ugh. We know it. Dr. Kioni sent the message to Yahoo a total of THREE times and we never received it. He even sent it once while i was on the phone with him and it did not show up. Finally he sent a copy to siva and siva posted it. Mercury is retrograde. Grrr. However, he will now be provising a form of backup by posting the access codes at his web sote AND posting them to alt.lucky.w in usenet. --cat)

I missed it last week because the notice arrived at 11pm Central Time on Wednesday night last week which was too late to participate or listen.

(You must have some slowdown with Yahoo, because that one went out well in advance. I am sorry you missed the show. Have you tried going to the Yahoo web interface and picking up the messages there rather than waiting for them to appear in your email? --cat)

Come on y'all...you know that you can do this and get that info out on Monday or Tuesday.

Allow yourself to be confused by facts....
you may learn something!

http://www.rosemerryandtime.com/theosa/Index1.html

[freeman725@aol.com]

hello, are we having a lucky mojo rootwork hour tonight? i didn't get any
mail with the call code. can anybody help me with this? solomon

(See my previous post. I apologize for not prusing the missing message more quickly. But you were on the showm so at least you got the last-minute message in time. Again, my apologies. --cat)

[QueenMabulla]

What is energy raising ???

(It's a term used in lots of different ways in several forms of magic and spiritual work.

(Some folks envision the body as having 7 chakras or energy centers up the middle of the spine all the way up to the head, and they do mental-spiritual visualizations raising their biological and spiritual energy and attention from the lowest chakra (which symbolizes sexuality) to the higher ones like the heart (love), throat (speech), and so forth. Attention seems to be a large part of the energy-raising with these folks.

(Other folks envision energy itself as a great untapped powerhouse within the earth and they do mental work raising this energy up from the earth in mentally visible form, to surround them as they work, often in the form of a cone (whoich some of them call a cone of power).

(I've also met people who think of each person as a battery of life-force and they have sat in a circle, holding hands and "raising energy" -- each of them contributing some of their own spiritual or life force as well as drawing up energy from the earth -- and then they envisioned that this creates a cone of energy-power above the group within which they can work and which they can also direct at will toward those in need of help or protection.

(Still others refer to different kinds of emotional states and activity states as "energy levels" and they place higher value on the more spiritually compassionate levels and less value on the more materialistically selfish states of being, so when they feel that they are stuck in a mess of selfish folks, they try to "raise the energy level" of the people around them to a "higher plane" -- and they may do this by envisioning light (either spheres of light, or glowing amorphous auras of light) which is being raised up in these peoples' bodies through their chakra centers and also moving through the spectrum of colours to lighter and lighter shades of colour until it becomes white and pure.

(And then there are folks who refer to "energy" in spell casting as a kind of force which is under pressure or can be built up under pressure within the magician, kinda like jism (pardon me, but you know what i mean) and they raise this "energy" to a very intense point -- sometimes by using sex (masturbation or with a partner) and then either instead of having an orgasm or at the moment they are having an orgasm (depending upon which school of sex magic they belong to) they release or "shoot" the energy from their genitals up through their bodies to their head, and then out of their head, mentally envisioning its being directed to where they want it to go, to heal or to hurt someone.

(There are probably about a dozen other ways that i have heard the term "raising energy" used by magicians, Neo-Pagans, Wiccans, New Agers, and so forth. But those are a few of the ideas that come up commonly when people talk about "raising energy." It's not really important in hoodoo, per se. --cat)

[Quimbisero]

Taylor,

Good Observations. However, I think you may have mistaken my emphasis
on the mechanics by which energy is harnessed as a suggestion that the
concept does not exist. Perhaps I would have made myself clearer had I
said that in most cases, African traditions seek to utilize outside
sources of energy - Spirits, forces of nature, to serve not only as
the source of energy but also it's vehicle of operation.

Yoruban traditions, far more than those of Congo origin, are concerned
with the acquisition of Ashe, which one might translate as power,
although I beleive that translation is the cause of a lot of
confusion. None the less, it was the means and the methods that I was
focused on.

African traditions do not tend toward the kind of relation to "power"
that the European traditions have. In European magic, power is raised
by the individual and mostly it is through an exercize of will,
whether that is viewed as something requiring mental effort, or seen
as being raised through emotion, or due to more recent influences from
Eastern Philosophies, the visualization of the Chakras. This somehow
allows the European magical mindset to envision something called
"personal power" as an attribute which may be stronger or weaker, and
is viewed as trainable.

In most African traditions, and this is certainly the case in Bantu
traditions, energy usually dwells without the person and harnessing
power does not rely on skills in raising, channelling or
visualization. Instead it requires a skill in communication. You
communicate with spirits - be they ancestral, or spirits of nature, or
of God and your ability to communicate effectively is what makes you a
successful magician. It is also helpful to point out that there are
some fundamental differences between Bantu and Yoruban ideas of power.
Ashe is something that one can acquire. Ashe is a quality (rather than
an energy) which one can purchase, request of deity, etc. Among the
Bantu, Ndoki (a term which is the closest equivalent of Ashe among the
Congo) does not have an independent existance. One does not acquire
ndoki, one is ndoki. Ndoki is something that is an inherent part of
one's character or even physical body. People either are or aren't.
That leads off to a whole bunch of other issues which are not relevent
to the immediate discussion at hand, so I don't wish to burden people
further.

I hope that this makes a little clearer what I meant.

Malembe,

Eoghan

[mysticbrews]

I have a question...in the African & African-disporic traditions,
wouldn't the concept of ecstatic dance and drumming be akin
to "raising energy"? Practitioners get themselves in a trance state
in preparation to be mounted (possession). As the beat of the drum
rises to a feverish pitch and the dancer's body temperature gets
hotter - the spirit is attracted to the energy/vibe they put out.

I believe someone beautifully stated the words "raising energy"
aren't really used in HooDoo and other African-based traditions, but
I do believe the concept exists but in a different form...any
thoughts? peace, MB

[Etudiant Ancetres]

Cat,

Last night's show was great. It was my first time participating and hearing the show and it was highly informative. I will have to listen to it a few more times to start understanding everything. If my understanding of this is correct, "cool" herbs would be herbs that smell look, and or taste sweet like vervain, sugar, roses, etc. and "hot" herbs would be herbs that appear, smell, taste hot, and poisonous herbs like High John the Conqueror, Valerian, Juniper, etc. Also, just to make sure I understood what you said, "hot" herbs give more action to your spells. What about cool herbs? I forgot. can you explain more about the hot/cold thing in hoodoo? Marc

(It was nice to hear your voice for the first time, Marc. Cool, sweet, moist, and demulcent herbs are soothing and gentling (think Peacful Home Oil or Stop Gossip Oil), but they act slowly, so hot herbs or minerals are added just as you said -- to "give more action." --cat)

[RedWill0w]

Hi all,

I missed last week's conference call on money spells, and just had the
chance to listen to it today (thanks to those who make this possible).

(That would be Dr. Kioni! --cat)

At one point, Mambo Angel, Cat, and Dr. Kioni were discussing Fridays (the
day of Venus) as good for money work, and Thursdays (Jupiter's day) as good
for money work. Both I agree with, but I wanted to interject that Wednesdays
are also effective money-working days. Classically related to Mercury, this
day is intrinsically business related. It's also appropriate for those whose
livlihood involves talking, writing, communicating generally. One of the first
money spells I ever did was done on a Wednesday, and whooo boy, let me tell
you, that thing kicked ***! This comes from someone made with a heavy dose of
Libra

I also wanted to comment on Cat's mention of using sassafrass in your
wallet, your checkbook, your moneybox. For anyone who hasn't seen sassafrass
growing, it's a very unusual tree. Most trees have leaves of uniform shape.
Sassafrass, however, has leaves in multiple shapes: a right-handed mitten, a
left-handed mitten, tri-lobed, and oval. All those different ways to receive
and hold money!

This link has pics. Sassafras albidum

Dara

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

(Dara, you can't send attachments ("Non-text") to this list. Copy out the URL and it will appear as a link. --cat)

[CKioni]

On a plain sheet of paper, type or write "All my debts are paid and dissolved" as it appears in the photo to the left. (Go to http://drkioni.com and look under free spells for the photo) Think of how you will feel when you can write PAID IN FULL on your invoices. Amplify this feeling as you write "All my debts are paid and dissolved" until you reach the last line with only an "A" remaining. The next step is to prepare a special debt busting money protection incense. My formula that you can easily duplicate is below:

1 pack of Fiery Wall of Protection Incense - Obtain from Luckymojo.com

1 tablespoon of Alkanet Root - Obtain from Luckymojo.com

1/2 tablespoon of Blue Flag Root - Obtain from Luckymojo.com

1/2 teaspoon of ground Master Root - Obtain from Luckymojo.com

Boost with 1 tablespoon of Frankencense resin - Obtain from Luckymojo.com

Mix the above ingredients in a ziplock bag. You will also need a bottle of Fiery Wall of Protection Oil and a bottle of Prosperity Oil. Dress the debt busting petition paper you wrote with a drop of each oil on the four corners and in the middle of the paper. Affirm aloud "All my debts are paid and dissolved" as you dress the paper. Now, the next step is optional and employs your psychic powers through sex magic. If you are offended by sexual material, skip to the end of the page for the last step; other wise read on . . .

First, take a relaxing shower or bath just as you would before making love. Scent your body with perfumes, pleasant oils and powders just as you do in preparation to receive your lover. Retire to your bedroom or sacred space and be sure you have your petition paper nearby. You are going to use your sexual energy to charge your petition paper as you would a talisman. Before you begin to pleasure yourself, be sure to visualize all your debts being paid and dissolved. Think how good it feels to have great credit, and how wonderful it feels to pay all your bills on time and in full. Sense the emotions of joy and relief knowing all past debts are paid and completely dissolved.

Now, you can begin to concentrate on pleasuring yourself. Use whatever erotica or sexual toys that help you stimulate yourself. If you have a partner, both of you should be in agreement and have the same intent regarding this ritual. In this case, you and your partner are free to stimulate each other, or one of you may choose to facilitate the other in an assistant mode. This stage is called the sederunt, a word that means "prolonged session." During this stage you and your partner/assistant continue the sexual stimulation - allowing yourself to come to the brink of climax and then backing off. This stage should last for at least 10 - 20 minutes for maximum effectiveness.

In the last stage of sex magick, you are to allow yourself to have an orgasm. During the sedurant stage, you should have come to the peak of orgasm several times before backing away and building the energy again. When you decide to have an orgasm / ejaculation, place all your focus on your mantra - shout it out if you like: "All my debts are paid and dissolved!" If you have your your petition paper nearby look at it and project your psychic energy to the statements during this moment. If you are a male doing solo sex magic, hopefully you had the fore thought to place a container nearby to capture your sexual fluid, or you can ejaculate directly onto the petition paper. Femalescan use their sexual fluid as well. I am sure a mature adult female familiar with her body knows how to do this. After, you have rested and calmed down, you will dress your petition with your charged sexual fluid. Simply dress the edges of the paper, the four corners and the middle while reciting the mantra "All my debts are paid and completely dissolved."


This is the final stage of the ritual. Light three green candles dressed with Prosperity Oil and the Fiery Wall of Protection Oil. You can also use white or gold candles. Light your candles and as you do so, repeat this paraphrased version of the 23rd Psalm "The Lord is my shepherd I shall not want. Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life and I shall dwell in the house of the Lord, forever." Now, fold your petition paper to you as you continue to repeat the 23rd Psalm. Turn the paper to the right clockwise and fold toward you again - keep doing this until you have a small packet. Next, ignite the folded petition from the middle candle. Be sure you have a flame proof container close to you. I use a pair of stainless steel tongs to hold the paper over a small brass cauldron while it burns. After the paper has completely burned to ashes, gather the ashes and add to your bag of compounded debt busting money protection incense. I use a ziplock bag and really shake the contents so that the ashes mix in throughly. Next, pack a sewing thimble or small candle snuffer with the incense, invert it, then affirm "may this incense relaease my intent" now, tap out the packed incense and light. As the smoke rises, recite your mantra "all my debts are completely paid and dissolved." Do this with conviction and visualize how it feels to be financially stable. Allow your candles to burn until the incense stops burning. Snuff or pinch out the candle flames. Burn a little more incense and the candles for 7 or 9 days in a row and expect a miracle!

Several weeks ago I asked God to give me a free spell to help people who are in financial distress. Honestly, I was also thinking of myself and a debt of $8,000 that I had disputed for over five years. I do not have a problem attracting money, but this one debt just wouldn't go away. I am sure you know what I mean!

When I heard the voice of the Holy Spirit speak to me, I wrote what I heard. The above Debt Busting Money Protection Spell �2004 is the result. Before I could make this spell public, I had to know it works beyond a doubt. The result is that within two weeks of perfoming the spell, the debt was paid and dissolved for only $1,650 dollars! As the faith evangelist Oral Roberts used to say "you can't argue with a miracle", and as the prosperity preacher Rev. Ike says "you can't lose with the stuff I use!" May God richly bless you as you use and share the Debt Buster Money Protection Spell. ~ Dr. Kioni

Debt Busting Money Protection Spell � 2004, Dr. Christos Kioni

_____________________________________________________________
Do You Hoodoo? Visit DrKioni.com -Your Hoodoo Rootwork CyberCommunity. $$¢¢$$

[Barbara Griffith]

Just so y'all know, this ended up in my junk mail filter because of the subject line I guess. It's too good to miss, so you might want to resend it under a different subject.

[Quimbisero]

Well, my body has never felt "hotter" as I was about to be possessed.
Actually, what you feel (or I should say, what I have always felt) is
a cessation of physical feeling, a dizziness in the head and a gradual
distancing of myself from the surroundings until I simply disappear.
No heat, no raising of energy, etc.

When I wake up, I have no recollection of the events.

Eoghan

[mpambunzila]

Mystic Brew wrote directly to Eoghan, but I would like to make a comment. She asked:

"in the African & African-disporic traditions, wouldn't the concept of ecstatic dance and drumming be akin to "raising energy"? Practitioners get themselves in a trance state in preparation to be mounted (possession). As the beat of the drum rises to a feverish pitch and the dancer's body temperature gets hotter - the spirit is attracted to the energy/vibe they put out."

There seems to be a common misperception that working in rituals of spirit incorporation leads to dancers becoming "ecstatic" while the drumming "rises to a feverish pitch," and "the spirit is attracted" by this level of intensity. It is actually quite different than that. Rituals of incorporation are quite loud, but are more of a moving prayer than a wild frenzy. Rather than "ecstatic," dancers become calm and centered. They have to be calm if incorporation is to happen. Let me see if I can explain...

Two things must happen for incorporation to happen. (I'm using "incorporation" rather than "possession" because the latter term refers to an unwanted intrusion.) The first thing that must happen is the mediums must "clear their channel." In other words, they must clear their own electro magnetic field and calm their emotional state so they can receive the spirit. Part of this stage requires "discharging" contamination from your field of vibration. What I am speaking of here is the kind of initiatory knowledge that makes very little sense intellectually -- it must be physically felt to be understood. Otherwise, simply hearing about it in this manner makes it sound downright silly...but, well, that's just the way these things work.

This first stage happens before the ritual of incorporation. It includes baths, incense, candles, prayers, and invocations specific to your desired spirit. The second stage takes place during the ritual, and is accompanied by drumming & dance. At this point, the mediums raise their vibratory level (or lower it if they're invoking a lower level entity) so that it resonates with the desired spirit's vibratory level. This resonance, along with specific drum rhythms and specific invocations, makes possible the incorporation. What does NOT happen, is the kind of frenzied abandon that people seem to generally expect. Rituals of incorporation are usually pretty tightly controlled affairs because the mediums have a very specific intention. What Mystic Brew was describing CAN happen, however, but the kind of frenzy she described usually only happens to mediums in training or sometimes to unsuspecting attendees at a ritual.

Initially, when a medium-in-training begins to open up to receiving a spirit thru incorporation, they go through a period of intense dis-charge (release of emotional & vibratory unbalance.) This can take the form of frenzied movement and uncontrollable behavior during the ritual. Another thing that can happen is that if the medium is not adequately developed, when the spirit's vibration touches them, they get hit like they've been electrocuted. In my early development, I used to get slammed onto concrete floors a lot. That is why in African American Spiritual Churches a lot of folks get knocked over, etc. They haven't been trained to receive a spirit.

In a trained setting, it's remarkably calm and controlled, although it's definitely loud and (yes) intense. In the midst of all the loud drumming and singing, the mediums are relaxed and focused, right up to the moment of incorporation. It's never the wild frenzy that has somehow come to be associated with rituals of incorporation. I have, however, read of Loas in Voodoo rituals punishing their mediums with a violent incorporation, but that has never been my experience in Umbanda. It might also be a reflection of one's specific Temple. Different Temples work with different lines of spirits for different reasons.

Taylor











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[mpambunzila]

Eoghan said:

"Yoruban traditions...(snip)... are concerned with the acquisition of Ashe, which one might translate as power, although I beleive that translation is the cause of a lot of confusion."

Unfortunately, as folks climb the rungs of ascension in the Yoruba traditions, it is not uncommon to take on a confused sense of exaggerated self-importance and power. When folks begin to feel powerful, they lose their grip on spiritual humility & kindness. They become isolated in their self-importance. I have seen friends go this route. They fall short of attaining iwa pele (good character.) Without iwa pele, one cannot handle ase, it slips thru your fingers. Esu will see to that.

Eoghan said, "Ashe is something that one can acquire. Ashe is a quality (rather than an energy) which one can purchase, request of deity, etc."

We are all born with ase. It is an energy existing in everything in Nature, including us. To understand how to gather more ase & wield it is the mark of an adept; to know how to handle it properly is the mark of someone with wisdom and iwa pele. Ase is the life force; it is not something to grovel over or take excessive pride in acquiring. One can become high and mighty; or one can become disempowered, petty, and mean. These are both ways of losing ase and iwa pele, and finding Esu knocking at your door.

Taylor

[CKioni]

The How to Heat-up a Spell show from the Luckymojo Hoodoo Rootwork Hour is now available. Go to http://DrKioni.com and click on the Positive Vibes Radio Network link - scroll down the page and you will see a directory of the past shows.

If anyone recorded the first show about Congo featuring Eoghan, please contact me. ~ Dr. Kioni

[Etudiant Ancetres]

Thanks Cat for the info. I remember in the conference when you and Dr. Kioni spoke about the hot/cold principles in hoodoo and how this goes back to Africa. I agree with you because I asked my aunt (who's from the Zulu tribe in South Africa) why white is the color of the ancestors and she said that white is a cool color and when I asked her to explain it, she couldn't explain it to me. You know what? You have a really sweet voice by the way. Marc

[mysticbrews]

Greetings Taylor,

Thanks for providing further insight. I've witnessed both forms of
incorporation that you explain, and you're totally correct in saying
the experiences are very different. I've seen people calmly accept
spirit (those more experienced in working with spirit), others go
flying into things and even people getting into fights. To me, a
Santeria Misa is more organized then other circles I've
experienced. But that's also determined by the experience of the
spiritualist leading the gathering, and the work they're trying to
accomplish. Thanks for the exchange of information and insight.

I've also found that studying the Afro-Caribbean traditions provides
a lot of valuable insight for HooDoo; it can help you understand
certain correlations and history...Alafia Ache, Mystic Brews

--- In hrcourse@yahoogroups.com, "Taylor Baxter" <tbaxter@m...>
wrote:

> > There seems to be a common misperception that working in rituals
of spirit incorporation leads to dancers becoming "ecstatic" while
the drumming "rises to a feverish pitch," and "the spirit is
attracted" by this level of intensity. It is actually quite
different than that. Rituals of incorporation are quite loud, but
are more of a moving prayer than a wild frenzy. Rather
than "ecstatic," dancers become calm and centered. They have to be
calm if incorporation is to happen. Let me see if I can explain...
> >
(snip)>
> Taylor

[Quimbisero]

Taylor makes some insightful observations. It needs to be noted however, that Taylor and I
work within distinct traditions and systems. As a result, we have rather different
experiences. While I would never say he's wrong, and his observations are informative,
especially on the issue of possession (I do not make the linguistic distinction of
incorporation/possession that he does, although it may be useful for some to do so) they
are only one set of experiences and hence not the only correct ones.

Possession is not always developed in the way Taylor describes. I am not inclined to use
scientific terminology in dealing with the issue of possession, nor to over-
complicate it. Cleansing is something that one needs to do periodically, but all being
equal, a spirit will possess when it chooses to, or when it is called correctly. Sometimes it
is done swiftly and with less complex methodologies. This may give the appearance of a
"less controlled" event, but the end results are equal. Every approach has its merits.
Ultimately, there are many approaches to dealing with spirit.

I don't want to carry this subject on too long here as I feel it is somewhat off topic. I would
be eager to hear any information about possession within a Hoodoo context.

Blessings,

Eoghan

[amazon43452]

Cat-

During the phone bridge about heating up spells, you spoke about a man
working a spell to break up his daughter and her boyfriend. You
watched him work the spell, and throw the candle into the bonfire. The
conversation then moved on to other subjects. Inquiring minds want to
know -- Do you know what the results of the spell were?

(Sorry, i don't know what happened. I went away to college shortly thereafter in another state. --cat)

I worked a spell last night to send Karma back to 2 young men who
have been working against my husband at his employment of 16
years. (Owner's son took over the company, and he promoted his best
friend to a position my husband had been promised by his father) I set
up 2 black candles with their names on them, dressed with oils and
goofer dust, and cayenne pepper for extra heat. The candle dressed for
one of the men burned down so fast (the owner's son) -- I have never seen
anything like it .The flame was huge, and the whole top of the candle
flamed up. The other candle burned well, high flame and looking good.
This morning I see that the second candle went out about half burned
down. An interpretation would be appreciated. should I dress and burn
another candle? should I re-light the candle that is half burned?

(I interpret this as follows: The owner's son is vulnerable and weak -- when a candle goes up quick like that, i often see very fast results. He may end up flaming out (e.g. the company going under). The other man was affected just some, then the power to affect him stopped. Why? Possibly he is a very strong indivual who is magically shielded and he "put the candle out" -- but there is another possibility: Take a look at what you wished-- you asked for "karma" (due justice according to each one's guilt) to be sent back, not a curse per se. He may not be guilty enough to deserve punishment more than half a candle's worth unless you want to push it. Since i don't know the case, i leave it to you to decide whether he is guilty but heavily shielded or is essentially a good person in a bad situation. You can re-light his candle if you wish, or start a second one on him and re-light the first one from the second one -- but that would be asking for more than mere "karma" -- that would be a revenge spell. --cat)

thank you so much for a wonderful course.

(You're welcome. --cat)

Deborah

[Quimbisero]

Mystic Brews,

There is a certain amount of what for lack of a better term may be
called "preconceived" or "unexamined" assumptions about the reasons
for certain events or behaviors. These are nothing more than attempts
to fit unexamined or unevaluated events to logical catagories that we
have constructed. These may result in neat and comfortable
explanations which upon thorough examination do not stand up to scrutiny.

For example, in Central African traditions and their new world
decendants, spirit possession demonstrates characteristics that
usually are interpreted by both Western and Yoruban oriented observers
as "more violent", "uncontrolled" or "less experienced" possession
states. In point of fact, this is not the case at all. It is a matter
of a difference in the process and nature of possession in two
distinct cultures.

Eoghan

[MissMichaele]

This is a forward from the 2004 class list.

Michaele

===

Msg 420

From: "Michaele Maurer" <redjasper@comcast.net>
Date: Thu Aug 12, 2004 5:23 pm
Subject: - radio show - an ancestor project

Cat & Dr. Kioni, Eoghan, Mambo Angel and everybody else involved, I
want to thank you all for another magnificent Hoodoo Rootwork Hour.
Really really looking forward to the session on ancestors next week -
and something Mambo Angel said sparked a question in my mind.

I know very little about any of my ancestors, not even grandparents.
Mambo Angel advised us to ask our ancestors for dreams. I'm wondering
if they might help me that way.

Would it make sense to begin a simple "unknown ancestors" altar and
hope that they might advise me how to improve it and how to find out
who they are?

(That is exactly right. --cat)

I also noticed that Dr. Kioni includes his stepfather on his ancestor
altar. My own stepfather is still living and I'm not on good terms
with him; this has been the major emotional obstacle to ancestor work
for me. Someone experienced in ancestor work wrote me privately and
said "But he's not a blood relative..." apparently implying that
step-relatives don't or need not count. I'd appreciate some
clarification on this point.

(In African traditional religions, not evey person gets to be an
"ancestor." There are rules for ancestors in traditional African
religions for who one should honour. Being dead is a start (your
step-father doesn't qhalify). Having been a good person is a
requisite. (Does he qualify for that?). Having upheld and helped his
family is a third requisite (Does he?). Having upheld and promoted his
village or culture is important (Does he?). We will speak more of this
next Wednesday on the radio show. --cat)

Especially since I've had a couple of dreams indicating that the very
spirits I've been shying away from are eager to work and play with me!

Thanks in advance,

Michaele Maurer

.,-*'`'*-,.,-*'`'*-,.,-*'`'*-,.,-*'`'*-,.,-*'`'*-,.,-*'`'*-,.

Oops: Likely the Most Important Word of Power in all Majik..
-- Charlene Mann
--- End forwarded message ---

[MissMichaele]

This is a forward from the 2004 class list.

Michaele

===

Msg

From: "catherine yronwode" <cat@luckymojo.com>
Date: Fri Aug 13, 2004 3:08 am
Subject: - followup on ancestors

In my brief reply to Michaele, i mentioned that in African traditonal
religion, an ancestor must be "dead" -- but this is not strictly true.

In rituals employing the graveyard dirt of ancestors, the ancestors
are dead, but in altars to the ancestral lineage (the family) itself,
anyone older than the person building the altar is considered an
ancestor -- as long as he or she is a worthy person.

Sorry if my first reply was misleading -- like i said, we will cover
this more fully on next week's radio show.

cat yronwode

--- End forwarded message ---

[MissMichaele]

This is the *rest* of the "followup on ancestors" thread from the 2004
class list.

Michaele

===

Msg 422


From: <Leecanipe@aol.com>
Date: Fri Aug 13, 2004 1:05am
Subject: Re: - followup on ancestors

Hi Cat, I have a question about working with ancestors.

My paternal grandmother was Native American; as part of a genetic
study of Indian families in NC, I had DNA testing done which showed my
genetic composition was 25% Native American. However, I was not raised
with any sort of Indian heritage or cultural pride.

Recently, I have noticed a strong influence of Indian ancestral
spirits in my work. I definitely want to work with these spirits, but
I do not want to "steal" a culture that really isn't mine, if you know
what I mean. I'd like to create an altar for my Indian spirits, and
work with them in a context that is personal rather than trying to
imitate Native American spiritual traditions.

Would this sort of thing be acceptable in the Hoodoo tradition?

(Absolutely, yes. --cat)

I've read about the Blackhawk traditions in the Spiritual Churches...
do you know of any other Indian traditions in Hoodoo? Thanks much.

(The Blackhawk tradition developed in specific response to exactly
what you describe -- having known Native ancestors but a broken
culutral heritage -- Blackhawk became a sort of "stand-in" for unknown
Indian ancestors. As for other Indian traditions in hoodoo -- there is
a lot of Native herb lore in hoodoo (see HHRM) and there are also
traces of Native Americana in almost every 19th century collection of
African American spiritual beliefs and folktale narratives. See the
"Fabled Dr. Jim Jordan" (his grandmother was an Indian), Sonny Boy
products Spiritual supplies (many of them are labelled "Old Indian
Grandmother"), and the folklore collections of Mary Alicia Owen. I
will be dsetailing this at greater length on next Wednesday's radio
show. --cat)

Peace,
Lee


Msg 427


From: Michael Rock <mrock@austin.rr.com>
Date: Sat Aug 14, 2004 6:46am
Subject: Re: - followup on ancestors

On Aug 13, 2004, at 7:05 AM, Leecanipe@aol.com wrote:

> Recently, I have noticed a strong influence of Indian ancestral
> spirits in my work. I definitely want to work with these spirits, but
> I do not want to "steal" a culture that really isn't mine, if you know
> what I mean. I'd like to create an altar for my Indian spirits, and
> work with them in a context that is personal rather than trying to
> imitate Native American spiritual traditions.

hon if those people are coming to YOU then you are not stealing
anything.. you are picking up what belongs to you. you can go buy
yourself some pictures of some Indians, or an Indian figure at the
hobby store, put out a clear glass of water, some tobacco or cigars,
some sweet drinks like Root Beer or Birch Beer, or whatever those
spirits tell you they want, and don't you worry. after researching i'm
not so sure it is a good idea to put out liquor for indian spirits, it
might heat them up too much.. hang some Indian corn over your door..
maybe put out some beans and small pumpkins. beans and squash and corn
and tobacco were the main crops of many many groups including the
Cherokee and the Iroquois and etc. honey with the comb is nice.. and of
course flowers and some fruit like berries especially. I like American
Spirits packaging for Indian related uses for obvious reasons.

In the Southwest a LOT of people keep a picture or statue of
Guadalupe.. she is considered the Mother of all Indios. You offer her
rosewater, roses and flowers..

Here is a picture of my Indian shrine..

http://mikerock.typepad.com/photos/phot ... altar.html

The caption does mention rum but i havent changed it yet.. but this is
an example of a Spiritual altar with an Indian focus. In my place it is
opposite my dinner table where i have a statue of St Isidore/Cousin
Zaka, who is associated with Indios in Haitian Vodou.

mike
-----------
Mike Rock
http://www.mike-rock.com

(Beautiful, Mike! --cat)