Hoodoo, Religion, and Religious Magic: Voodoo Wicca Santeria Witchcraft Christianity Atheism

zitaholiday · Unread post by **zitaholiday** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 10:08 am

I hope this has not been asked yet. But I found some information about using items found around the house in hoodoo work (nails, pins, ammonia, salt). Can you pretty much use anything you find around the house in hoo doo work and how would you know what to use it for? And, can using herbs around the home and garden help hoo doo work and aide items also bought from lucky mojo? One last question, is there a difference between getting herbs fresh (from garden) & buying them prepackaged from a store as far as effectiveness on hoo doo work goes?

Thank you,
Zita Holiday

Unread post by **Turnsteel** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 10:45 am

Hi

zitaholiday wrote:Can you pretty much use anything you find around the house in hoo doo work and how would you know what to use it for?

No you can't just use anything, certain things you probably have around the house do have a use in hoodoo, ails,pins ammonia, but that doesn't mean you can just grab something and decide that it has use in hoodoo.

zitaholiday wrote:And, can using herbs around the home and garden help hoo doo work and aide items also bought from lucky mojo?

I'm not quite sure what you mean. Herbs can of course be used around the home.

zitaholiday wrote:One last question, is there a difference between getting herbs fresh (from garden) & buying them prepackaged from a store as far as effectiveness on hoo doo work goes?

No not really, well in some cases. If you wanted to work with say Shaming Judy, well buying the leaves won't help you because you need the living plant. But where you can use parts of the plants, which is the most common, their is no reason not to use bought herbs. There is a long tradition in hoodoo of buying herbs, this happened when people became more urban and thus more removed from the county.

Also, its hoodoo, not hoo doo, one word, just to let you know.

zitaholiday · Unread post by **zitaholiday** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 4:45 pm

Thank you. I'm learning so I'm lost lol.

Thank you for answering all my questions! I appreciate it very much

--Zita Holiday--

Unread post by **CopperFox** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 5:10 pm

Miss Zita,

One of the things I find so appealing about hoodoo is how commonplace many of the supplies are -- it's nice to encounter a system of magick so practical and down to earth. I've studied other systems where everything is so rigid -- must gather herb during so and such planetary hour and so and such moon and astrological sign, with this tool only, which must have never been used ... and so on and so forth. That sort of thing is awfully discouraging to most -- if it works for someone, great -- but I like to live a life that blends the magick with the mundane. Folk magick systems such as hoodoo and hex meet that need for me.

Like you, I am new to hoodoo and currently completely immersed in the wealth of information presented here and on Cat's other pages --amazing! I see so many possibilities for using hoodoo in my life.

Of course with the more esoteric herbs, I think it is best to either buy it from somewhere like LM where it has been handled properly or grow them yourself, which is not always easiest or cheapest. Other household items like pins, ammonia, candles and food offerings I think should be probably be set aside for your magickal work only and not intermingled with other household supplies -- that may be just me. For example, if I buy flowers for the graveyard I can't bear to use some of them for an arrangement in the house -- but that's probably just me being a bit odd...good to hear from you again, Zita. Take care.

Unread post by **catherineyronwode** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 9:43 pm

Sorry, friend, but soul retrieval and shamanism are not on the progam here. This is Christian African American and Southern folk magic.

Good luck finding what you seek.

Spirituality Special (7 Books)

Use in Magic:
Our Spirituality Special Collection encompasses seven mystical-magical books that focus on the inspirational and religious side of hoodoo, teaching scriptural and spiritual techniques of spell-casting and fortune-telling. The set includes "Hoodoo Bible Magic: Sacred Secrets of Scriptural Sorcery" by Miss Michaele and Professor Porterfield, "Secrets of the Crystal Silence League" by Claude Alexander Conlin, "Hoodoo Shrines and Altars: Sacred Spaces in Conjure and Rootwork" by Miss Phoenix LeFae, "Deliverance!: Hoodoo Spells of Uncrossing, Healing, and Protection" by Khi Armand, "Gospel of Satan, With Commentary and Selected Fatwas" by Troll Towelhead, "The Guiding Light to Power and Success," by Mikhail Strabo, and a magnificent, gold-embossed, King James Bible, illustrated by Gustav Dore.

Spell Methods:
Lucky Mojo Books are filled with authentic and easy to follow instructions for practical spells of magic and fortune-telling. Enhance your success in spells of love, luck, happiness, and wealth by learning time-tested folkloric traditions of hoodoo, rootwork, psychic reading, spiritual sorcery, and herbalism.

Product Details:
In this seven-volume set -- a total of 1919 pages! -- you will learn how to use traditional hoodoo spells and passages of scripture to accomplish your magical goals. Six of them regularly sell for $9.00 each (amounting to $54.00), and the Gold Embossed, King James Bible is regularly $27.00 for a total retail value of $81.00 -- but with this special offer you pay only $72.00 for the entire collection (a savings of $9.00). Order "The Spirituality Special" and you will receive one copy each of these books:

• Hoodoo Bible Magic by Miss Michaele and Professor C. D. Porterfield
• Secrets of the Crystal Silence League by Claude Alexander Conlin, edited, annotated, restored, and revised by catherine yronwode and Deacon Millett
• Hoodoo Shrines and Altars by Miss Phoenix LeFae
• The Gospel of Satan by Troll Towelhead
• Deliverance! by Khi Armand
• The Guiding Light to Power and Success, by Mikhail Strabo
• The King James Bible, gold-embossed, illustrated by Gustav Dore

Format: Six 96-page books (576 pages), trade paperbacks, illustrated, and The King James Bible (1343 pages) Hardcover, illustrated
Publisher: Various
Publication dates: 2012-2020
ISBNs: Various
Tagged: Spirituality, Spells and Magic, Specials

BOO-SPE-SPIR
Spirituality Special (7 Books)
$87.00

You can order right here in the Forum by clicking on the blue Add To Cart button.

For more information, see:
https://www.luckymojo.com/luckymojopublishing.html

NotDorianGray · Unread post by **NotDorianGray** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 2:18 am

Household objects are one of those grey area subjects. Like, I need pins for a particular spell, and I want them to be green. I'm going to perform the spell next week, so I go out and buy green pearl headed pins that are nice and shiny and new, and dedicate them to the work I want to do. On the other hand, OMG! Emergency! I need to do a spell now. Then I raid my sewing box for green plastic pins if I can find them.

Herbs in your garden you can of course use, no problem. I often use mint, roses, or lily of the valley from my garden, and am working on growing more useful cojure herbs. That said... I can't grow everything.

You can use things from around the house like bottles and jars, nails, pins etc, but if you are going to use them magically, you should cleanse them properly first. You should never just use any old thing though, and before you use something for working with, make sure you know what it's for and what it does.

zitaholiday · Unread post by **zitaholiday** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 11:36 am

Wow! so much information! Thankyou very much.

--Zita Holiday--

Unread post by **CopperFox** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 4:47 pm

My vote for best household item would have to be canning (Mason) jars -- I use them for everything: storage of dried herbs, oils, bathing mixtures and even as witch jars. (Methinks my hillbilly is showing...but I do love 'em.) You can even get pretty ones now with a cut glass or fruit pattern which just delights my fancy Dutch soul to no end.

Does anyone else have any tricks they'd like to share?

zagone · Unread post by **zagone** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 7:47 pm

My question needs to be rephrased more clearly and succinctly since the forum is of course not about shamanism and the question really concerned how African American folk magic would handle the issue at hand.

To restate the question:

What would African American folk magic do for a person who remains deeply drained of energy, shamed, and unable to act for herself many years after sexual abuse against her? Furthermore the person's beliefs are such and the situation is such that any actions would need to be done covertly -- she won't be participating by taking baths, washing floors, doing her own rituals, etc. What can be done quietly on her behalf?

Thanks,
Zagone

Unread post by **catherineyronwode** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 8:17 pm

Ah, that makes more sense to me. I'd start with a blessin spell for a depressed person of which there are many -- and some solid suggestions for this type of work can be found here:

http://luckymojo.com/blessing.html

Good luck.

zagone · Unread post by **zagone** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 8:25 pm

Cat -- Thanks for taking a 2nd look and the response. I will get on it!

Thanks,
Zagone

Unread post by **catherineyronwode** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 8:29 pm

Count me as another canning jar fan. Notice the dozen canning jars behind and around me in my avatar image.

For the full cupboard's worth, look here:

http://www.luckymojo.com/mojocatmap.html

Unread post by **CopperFox** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 8:32 pm

Can't beat 'em. For something that I want really sealed up, like a bottle spell, I use old-fashioned canning wax. Good stuff.
Ms. Cat, I'm like a kid await Christmas knowing my LM order is on its way! Have a great weekend!

I followed the link -- you've got more jars than I -- I also took the virtual tour and the LM shop is beautiful, unlike so may occult shops which look downright grungy.

NotDorianGray · Unread post by **NotDorianGray** » Sat Oct 31, 2009 7:40 am

I collect and keep lots of jars and bottles. My other (not quite) household (more craft?) item is origami paper, I use it for petitions all the time. Placemats can be good for altars, too. I'm really tired right now, but I'll have a think on this one and maybe post some more. It's a fun thread.

Unread post by **CopperFox** » Sat Oct 31, 2009 12:30 pm

NotDorianGray --
I think I had read a previous post of yours where you described using origami paper in a money spell which was green on one side and gold on the other. I love that idea and plan to pick up a package of mixed paper the next time I am at the craft store.

It's really fun and exciting to learn what others are using in their work.

My #2 fave household item is a pair of sturdy kitchen shears. They handle everything from flannel for bags to the thickest, gnarliest roots down to dainty little thyme leaves.

Thanks for sharing, everyone!

maduro01 · Unread post by **maduro01** » Sat Oct 31, 2009 1:37 pm

Is There Any Significance In Doing Magic On Halloween?

Mohammed · Unread post by **Mohammed** » Sat Oct 31, 2009 2:23 pm

This is a great topic. Thanks!

Unread post by **CopperFox** » Sat Oct 31, 2009 4:22 pm

maduro01,

Yes, in certain magickal traditions -- i.e. European paganism, wicca, etc.

Since hoodoo is rooted in Christianity there would be no significance ascribed to a pagan holiday like Halloween unless that tradition was in one's family or local community. Some Christians regularly observe Halloween. Others do not.

So far as I have found there don't seem to be any holidays or special days afforded to the working of magick in the hoodoo tradition. Certain moon phases are favored depending on the work to be done, but even those can be disregarded if there is an immediate need to do the work. In this way, hoodoo is wonderfully practical and accessible -- just one of the many things I love about hoodoo!

Unread post by **Mama Micki** » Sat Oct 31, 2009 7:03 pm

maduro01,

All Saints Day (November 1) and All Souls Day (November 2) are considered holy days in the Catholic Church and are celebrated as the Day of the Dead in Mexico. The day was celebrated in the Celtic culture as Samhain and was renamed All Hallows Eve by Christians.

Astariell · Unread post by **Astariell** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 6:23 pm

Though a bit late, I will tell you that I have had experience with a man with the Muslim faith although he had withdrawn from the Muslim faith.....he still had his roots in this and has been struggling with being torn between following his faith or continuing his present life......He fasted and prayed during the holy time and even showed me the mosque.........That said, it is my feelings that it would not matter....Don't some others have a faith and pray?
What matters is that you have faith in what you desire and by applying the principles of hoodoo and believing in what you desire, you work then with these......a honey jar would be good....as well as many of the kits.

If a person were of another faith and went to the place of their faith would you expect to convert then to their faith?
The person I was involved with did pray and fast during that time. It is true that the expectation would be to convert to the Muslim faith...if that person wanted you as a wife....but it is my belief that the work you would do and your intent as well, would bring a result that would be good for all.....

I could not convert either but again, the expectation is for you to convert......So it is probably best to cut and clear....
I too had not been asked to be his wife and I would say he would have wanted me to be Muslim......even though he wasn't following it fully.

Keep in mind that all things are possible.....It is always possible.....Who can really know?

It seems complicated and we tend to make things complicated....If to "win" this man, I would have to convert then where does that really leave me? I would not truly believe in this faith....conversion is not of the mind but of the heart......it is not loving the person but more of loving the faith....don't become a hypocrite......

This site has so much to offer so utilize the offers here and put your heart into a true result....not speculating on the expectations of this faith he has....If he loves you and you can help this along, then you have a wonderful chance......

NotDorianGray · Unread post by **NotDorianGray** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 1:42 am

maduro01,

On 'Halloween'? Not for me. On Samhain (or Beltain in the Southern hemisphere...) yes, for me, as I subscribe to an 8 point year. Technically, Samhain falls between the Equinox and Solstice, and usually occurs on the 6th or 7th of November.

All Saints and All Souls days are better if you work with Catholic saints and/or ancestors. You can petition any saint on All Saints Day with greater effect.

November 1 is also considered to be the birthday/feast day of the Gede in Vodou.

There's plenty of significance around that time of year, but nothing that is specifically Hoodoo beyond the usual Christian associations with Hallowe'en.

charminmuse · Unread post by **charminmuse** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 4:19 pm

maduro01,

Halloween is, for Witches and Wiccans, the new year. It also the time when the veil between the living and the dead is the thinnest...so for spellwork or hoodoo you can do work with the dead, communicationing with the dead, necromancy, seances anything dealing with the dearly departed. You can however do these working at anytime, but its just the most ideal time.

NotDorianGray · Unread post by **NotDorianGray** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 7:24 pm

maduro01,

Hoodoo rootworkers are not Witches or Wiccans in the modern, religious sense of those words. That is, they don't celebrate Halloween/Samhain as the new year, and they don't count an eight point year.

Hoodoo is a Christian tradition. All Saints? Yes, if you are a Catholic Christian.

Halloween? Yes or no, depending on your denomination and your family or cultural traditions. Trick or Treating in costume on Halloween is widely popular in the USA, and is generally considered a secular activity.

MaJiG_GarDen · Unread post by **MaJiG_GarDen** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:05 am

Thanks everyone for the replies.. me and my ex have started to resolve the issues. I can't comment on what will happen just yet only time will tell...

Kemi · Unread post by **Kemi** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 9:13 am

Hi everyone,

I just heard that I'm child of Yemaja or Iyemoja and I have no any idea of how to go with that.

Any tips on how to get in contact with Yemaja or Iyemoja will be very much appreciated. I'm a 39 years old business woman living in the Netherlands but originally from Africa 'Yoruba.' I've been having problem with my business for many years now and have tried all my possible best including one of LM doctors but the problem remains the same.

I just had a reading with someone hoe told me that my God is in the sea and wants me to be worshiping her and without doing that there is no way out.

Did anyone know how to get in contact with Iyemoja?

Thanks for your help

Unread post by **Devi Spring** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 9:39 am

Kemi --

Well, this is a forum for hoodoo, not the religions of Santeria or Lukumi.

You should try and make contacts with a Santeria community or religious house somewhere to get a reading and consultation with a Santero/a for instructions on how to contact Yemaja correctly.

Unread post by **Mama Micki** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 9:48 am

Kemi,

No one can tell you what to believe or what deities to worship. Unless you truly feel called to serve Yemaja or any other deity, consult another reader, and be open to new ideas. Maybe you need to change your business or occupation. Maybe you need to change your location. Maybe you need to change your outlook.

theredc6 · Unread post by **theredc6** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 4:05 pm

Kemi,

This forum deals with matters in Hoodoo folk magic. Yemaja is associated with the Santeria religion.

Kemi · Unread post by **Kemi** » Fri Dec 04, 2009 7:51 am

Thanks everyone and I'm sorry for posting this issue here, I'm just not familiar with all this spell and religious issue.
Regarding my job I'm doing the right job because I've been doing this for years and have been very successful with it.

The only thing that confinced me about this issue of Yemaja is that all my dreams is always about water, I never had a dream without water or river and that's ever since my childhood. And the person that have the reading for me have nothing to do with Yemaja she only describe what she saw.

Well, I will contact santaria community as you said.

Thanks,

jazzie · Unread post by **jazzie** » Mon Jan 04, 2010 9:49 am

First of all, I am aware that labels are not essential in life but I would like to get advice in terms of a label that would fit my belief-system.

I am a student of hoodoo.

I also honor the Orishas but I do not follow an African Traditional or Diasporic religion.

I wonder, for those of you who follow a Pagan spirituality but are not Neopagan, do any of you use the term Witch or Pagan to describe your tradition?

I struggle with these terms because Witch is too linked to Wicca, and Pagan with Neopagan. The general populace assumes that Witch = Wicca and Pagan = Neopagan. I don't fully connect with all of the tenets that are common under Neopaganism, but there are some things I agree with such as being open-minded, solitary practice and revering nature. I also don't want to give out the impression that I am a Neopagan when I am just an indigenous Pagan.

Orisha worship and hoodoo are obviously different from one another and also not Neopagan in any way or form, but I can’t completely fit in with calling myself an Afro-diasporic believer or follower of an African Traditional Religion because I don’t practice any of those religions or agree with all of their tenets and traditions either.

Maybe I should go with my native language and use bruja (witch in Spanish)?

Any advice/comments will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

Unread post by **Devi Spring** » Mon Jan 04, 2010 1:17 pm

jazzie,

Well, my spiritual and magical path includes Buddhist, Hindu, esoteric Judeo-Christian, and shamanic spirit-working elements. I generally don't really label myself anymore in a broad sense.

About 10 years ago I practiced Wicca, but my interests and personal practice were much wider than the Wiccan religion generally allows and I broke from that tradition. So I just went with Pagan for awhile, but again, people inferred a lot of things that simply weren't the case with me, and so eventually I quit using that label, although in many ways it does describe large elements of my path.

I saw a blog entry from a magician who had just recently stopped referring to himself as Pagan for the same reason, and now just went by the label "occultist". That actually is a great way to describe my path as well, but it still does carry connotations that simply aren't accurate for me personally. About 4 years ago I really quit caring about finding a fixed label for myself. LOL

So I tend to just use situational labels. With my healing clients I'm a Usui Reiki Master and vibrational healer. With my magical clients I'm a witch and conjurewoman. When I'm working in a more ceremonial style, people call me a magician. It's all true. But none of it is the whole picture.

When pushed to provide a label I usually say universalist gnostic - meaning I find truth and value in all spiritual systems, but rely on personal experience with the Divine and spiritual forces to determine what is Truth for me; and while I use spiritual scriptures, texts, and commentaries for inspiration, orthodox dogmas are not something I accept. I also make no assumption that my Truth is the Truth for anyone else, and have no desire to try to sway people one way or another, though I'm happy to provide my perspective and guidance, and provide resources for further study if they wish it.

I'm sure some wrong things still get inferred due to the use of the word "gnostic", although I'm referring to a spiritual approach rather than any one particular Gnostic sect. I don't go in much for all the Demiurge and Archons and transcendental > material stuff. Although I do find the Sophian Gnostic tradition to be extremely inspiring as it's not nearly as Dualistic and is based very heavily in Kabbalah, and also takes a feminine-centric approach. But it's not the be-all-end-all descriptor of what I do.

Sometimes I'll throw "witch" in at the end of the universalist gnostic to reinforce the fact that I do work alot of practical magic - but as I said, overall I don't really care.

I have my stock answer, and people can take from it what they will. If they actually care to get to know me, what exactly I practice will become alot more clear.

So, I wouldn't worry too much about it. Pick something that you feel resonates with you and describes your path most accurately.

Bruja does have very negative connotations in many Latino circles, however, as it is often used to describe the people who are willing to do negative magical practices. Sort of like the anthropological "witch" - and like witch more and more people are using it to describe a practice that is not centrally negative. So you may want to be aware of that.

I think indigenous pagan is a pretty good way to go about it. It's innocuous and sets you apart from the NeoPagans a bit.

jazzie · Unread post by **jazzie** » Mon Jan 04, 2010 1:56 pm

Devi

Very interesting. I don't work with clients per se, it would just be a label more for myself. I feel it would strengthen my path.

I find I am more traditional-indigenous minded in regards to the philosophical concepts I have regarding magic, the nature of deity, etc which can be very different in Neopaganism. For example, I don't believe the Gods are solely archetypes or that all of the male Gods are aspects of one male god and all Goddesses = one goddess. I also believe that magic does have a literal effect and causes change in my external reality and it is not just a tool for self-improvement.

In regard to ethics, I am not one of those do-gooder with folk magic, whether it is hoodoo or my native folk magic.

And you are right regarding the term bruja in Latin America. As a Latina myself, I am deeply aware of this. One thing is that magic is an intrinsic part of my belief-system. This is what attracts me more to the term witch compared to pagan per se.
Too bad magician sounds funny.

I just feel stuck in the middle.

I simply want to be honest with people and although people will hear what they want to hear or what they know, I want to give the most accurate label possible.

Unread post by **ConjureMan** » Mon Jan 04, 2010 2:03 pm

jazzie,

Labels are what we make of them. You can call yourself a pagan, just clarify that you are not a neopagan, nor associated with Wicca.

I often find people in similar traditions to yours calling themselves an "Old World Witch," or "Traditional Witch." This usually has a connotation of something older than Wicca and the Neopagan movment.

Labels are ways of identifying yourself, but they fall short of what we really are. I am a ConjureMan, I am a Ceremonial Magician, I am a Vitki, I am a Hemeticist, a Qabalist, I am Magi. I am simply I AM

.

Unread post by **Mama Micki** » Mon Jan 04, 2010 2:11 pm

As you may guess from my former screenname "Cleopatra," am an amateur Egyptologist. The Egyptian word for magic or magician is "heka," which may be related to the word "hex" and the Greek goddess Hecate. Adding a "t" to Egyptian words makes them feminine, so I guess I could call myself a "hekat." One could also use the word "magi" or "wise (wo)man."

I have been reading a lot lately about the parallels between Egyptian religious literature and hymns and the stories and Psalms in the Bible. I am quickly reaching the conclusion that they are similiar enough that I can combine the ancient Egyptian faith and Christianity into a syncretic path which would fit in nicely with Hoodoo, which includes African and Christian elements.

Now I can say that I believe in Jesus Christ (which means Anointed Savior), Light of the World, the Bread of Life, the Good Shepherd because these are also titles of the Egyptian God Heru (Horus).

Unread post by **CopperFox** » Mon Jan 04, 2010 3:00 pm

jazzie et al,

What an interesting conversation...

Not too many generations ago, pretty much every community in rural Appalachia had its own witch. This witch could be male or female or an entire family might be thought of as "witchy." The label carried no negative connotation in itself -- these were the folks you went to when the baby had a fever or Popaw was wasting away from not eating well. To be sure, there were a fair share of "bad" witches -- unethical sorts who would curse and hex for fun and profit, but on the whole you usually saw the witch for healing purposes or to discover the source of your ill luck.

In these communities, the people who worked conjure from a Bible-centric perspective were referred to as Christos and were, for the most part, very accepted by the community. Another commonly used and wholly positive term was herb doctor, the local pronunciation sometimes sounding like (and spelled as) "yarb doctor."

Accepted even by many Christians, too, was the use of the word "conjure" and "conjure doctor." The given title was usually accompanied by the name of the practitioner's homeplace, thus my great-grandfather was known as the herb or conjure doctor of Indian Creek. He practiced Christos type conjure. My granny denied what she did was magic at all -- she just would say she would pray for you. I can attest she prayed most powerfully!

Myself, I suppose I am a pantheist, albeit raised in a family that could not decide whether we were Catholic or Church of Christ or conjurers -- I find divinity, the sublime light of the Creator, in everything and everyone. I am coming back to my Christos roots after years of experimenting with other systems. I am, after all, a woman who hath familiar spirits. I think of myself as a "witchy woman."

I hope someday my neighbors will hold me in high enough esteem to refer to me as the conjure doctor of Bloomingrose... you know, great-granddaughter of Ol' Bob and Annie down on Indian Creek.

Unread post by **Mama Micki** » Mon Jan 04, 2010 4:06 pm

CopperFox --

Pantheist is a good term. It was on my Army ID tags.

jazzie · Unread post by **jazzie** » Mon Jan 04, 2010 4:48 pm

Conjureman

Old World Witch? I have never heard of this one at all. I am from the Caribbean though, the new world.
I think that Traditional Witch with initial capital letters usually refers to a specific tradition that most commonly exists in Britain. On the other hand, lowercase ‘traditional witch’ may be more appropriate for traditional (folk-indigenous) witches all around the world?
Or, is traditional witchcraft/witch specific to Europe?

Perchance, indigenous witch?

Mama Micki

I wish I could do the same with the term bruja. I am from a Spanish-speaking country in the Caribbean and it is very interesting how different things are over there. We have from 'bruja buena' (good witch) to 'bruja mala (bad witch) and 'magia negra' (black magic) to 'magia blanca' (white magic) and then, we also have the plain terms brujas (female witches) and brujos (male witches).
In my country, curanderos/as seem to be more focused in the use of herbs and healing, and magic is not a main feature. On the other hand, brujos and brujas always practice magic.
It is common for brujos and curanderos to recognize or work with spirits, saints, Jesus Christ and the Virgin Mary, polytheism is not ordinary at all.

I have also thought of the word pantheist too but I find it too vague.

CopperFox

We share very similar stories. My father’s side of the family is Yoruba and they are well acquainted with their folk magic. My Latina mother knows folk magic of our country but she would never call it ‘witchcraft’ and she would never ever identify herself as a witch. I would never ever hear any of my relatives from both sides using the term witch or pagan to describe their traditions. They would probably find the use of these terms as being ‘wrong’ or as a ‘modern-western thing’.

Perchance, with Neopaganism reaching these lands, more of these folks will use the term witch or maybe not because it does happen that some Neopagans project their understanding of their religions to those of indigenous paganism and witchcraft, thus making blanket statements about indigenous pagan religions and missing the point on what indigenous pagan religions and witchcraft are truly about. E.g. the version of Karma by Westerners greatly differs that of Eastern religions. Some people argue that this reeks of cultural imperialism.

With this in mind, Neopaganism may actually leave these indigenous witches feeling apart because the philosophical explanations in regards to concepts and ideas (deity, magic, etc) are different between Neopagans and pagans. A very special one is that of ethics. Most of these brujos would laugh at the Wiccan Rede and the Neopagans would be extremely concerned that these brujos are too lax in regards to ethics in magic.

Unread post by **Devi Spring** » Mon Jan 04, 2010 8:11 pm

I think that Traditional Witch with initial capital letters usually refers to a specific tradition that most commonly exists in Britain

I think you may be thinking of British Traditional Wicca - or BTW. "Traditional witch" in and of itself, while perhaps being confused with BTW, doesn't really refer to any particular branch of Wicca. True that dropping the upper-cases would help make a further distinction, when typing anyway.

When I do end up saying 'universalist gnostic witch' I nearly always still get asked if I'm Wiccan. Then I say, "no - more like the village witches of yore" and people then get the picture of the kindly herbalist conjurewomen in their heads. Because the general culture where I live in Canada is much more European-centric than Southern African American, the terms "rootdoctor" and "hoodoo" don't actually have any real meaning to many. So in my practice I use conjurewoman (as word conjure is pretty universally recognized) and village witch as descriptors of what I do. I find that, where I am located, that combo ends up making the most sense to people.

You'll never come up with a label that someone won't misunderstand. And I think being vague is better than trying to get specific. Leaves you more room to actually explain what you believe, rather than having a heap of assumptions piled at your feet.

kevinloa74 · Unread post by **kevinloa74** » Tue Jan 19, 2010 8:31 am

i been reading more about hoodoo and was wondering. dont take offinse pls. how is hoodoo diff from praying?

like i read that sometimes you get your answer and sometimes not. isn't that more like prayer than magic?

i am just reading up on this so i can be wrong.

in psionics when i make a construct if it doesn't work it's 'cause i made a mistake or didn't put enough energy or other factor. the spell doesn't not work because its the the way of things. i'm sorta confused on that.

i also read a little on prayer and like there was a like for southern baptists. is that the way prayer is usually done in hoodoo?

do you raise energy and direct it? like some people draw energy in and form it what about hoodoo you just pray what you want with feeling or is it more than that?

could you guys give a specific example of a hoodooist actually praying their spell, 'cause i cant put the southern batpist and hoodoo together in my mind when praying the spell.

Unread post by **Turnsteel** » Tue Jan 19, 2010 8:49 am

kevinloa74 --

Well the first thing to realize is that hoodoo is primarily christian folk magic. Its up to God if a spell works. That's rather difficult for most new age types to grasp, you are in no way entitled to what you want simply because you want it, you can want and pray all you like but if you aren't meant to get something no amount of magic will get it for you. That's a huge stumbling point for most, as a species we're used to being able to get what we want simply because we want it and that we're all winners. A cute and comforting dream,but not much more.

kevinloa74 wrote:could you guys give a specific example of a hoodooist actually praying their spell.

Sure, I have been lighting candles on a blessing bottle for the people in Haiti. I lit the candle ad prayed to God to get the rescue workers the help they need to do their jobs, to get the supplies the people need and to brig them healing and mercy in their time of dire need. I also prayed psalms over my work. But that's how I work, there is no standard method to prayer, how can there possibly be? Its like love in a way, get 100 people together and ask them what love means and you'll get 100 different answers, ask 100 people how to pray and you'll get 100 different answers, and the best part? None of them are wrong.

And as for the effectiveness of hoodoo, I've found it to be more effective then any other system, its very very practical and providing you have the talent for it, and understand that ultimately it's God's(however you perceive the divine) call on whether or not its a go.

Unread post by **CopperFox** » Tue Jan 19, 2010 8:59 am

Prayer is integral to what makes hoodoo magick "GO." To put it into more of a neo-Pagan terminology, it is "empowering" or "charging", etc. Certainly there is more to it than simple prayer, though. In hoodoo the roots, herbs and curios are considered to have inherent, God-given powers. It is the power of directed prayer and magickal intent that brings these powers out to the fullest, ready to be used by the will of the conjurer. Yes, you do direct your energy and intent; focus and will are critical. You can't just recite some Psalms like a recipe for meatloaf and expect results. Your heart must be in it. A mediocre, half-hearted rootworker with all the finest roots/curios will not have the same level of success as one who can direct that "prayerful energy" with only a scant pinch of a single root. Now there are some people who pray so intently and with such power that what they are able to do rivals all-out magick. But this in and of itself, is prayer, not hoodoo.

As for specific examples of spells used, the Psalms are commonly employed. Those with a more Catholic background use prayers from their tradition, although praying to the Saints cuts across denominations in hoodoo. Certain spells have spells associated with them. Regardless of the Psalm, chant or spell indicated, a heartfelt petition, or prayer of your own is an integral part of any rootwork.

kevinloa, I'm pleased to see you've taken an interest in learning more about the hooodoo tradition. The LM webpages are a wonderful resource. You may also wish to read through the past threads in each of the subcategories; you'll find many of your questions have already been asked and answered. The users of this forum take pride in sharing their knowledge and educating new practicioners in both practical and theoretical aspects of hoodoo.

Michelle

kmew1315 · Unread post by **kmew1315** » Tue Jan 19, 2010 2:51 pm

I think some of it is a matter of interpretation. Keep in mind that, while it's not the norm for hoodoo, there are hoodoo people who will tell you that if you focus your spell, are a powerful enough rootworker and/or have a very focused intent, that it WILL come to pass. And you said...

kevinloa74 wrote:in pisionics when i make a construct if it doesnt work its cause i made a mistake or didnt put enought energy or other factor.

...so by your own admission, you don't have a 100% success rate either. It's a matter of interpretation. You say that when a spell doesn't work, you did something wrong. And let's face it, no matter how good you are, if you are convinced that that's the only reason something doesn't work, then you can dig and find SOMETHING that you can think caused it. A hoodooist can look at what you did and say "no, you did everything right, but God didn't want you to have this answered" or you could look at a hoodooist's failed workings and say "you did this and this wrong" or "you didn't focus your intent enough" etc.

adam283 · Unread post by **adam283** » Tue Jan 19, 2010 3:55 pm

ok so im still new but to add my 2 cents..... prayer, hoodoo, it all comes down to working with energy with god.... your belief must be there, your faith, your whole body, mind and soul, let face it (best example of how magic works from someone who has taught me a ton and if it wasnt for him I wouldnt still be learning) think of the movie Bruce all mighty, if magic was easy to learn and grasp by anyone the world would be like when Bruce granted every ones prayers, total chaos....

if you wish for your prayers/magic to work you must have complete faith, god loves everyone and gives them what they truly want in their heart good or bad, and sometimes when you ask for something and do a spell for it, and you think its what you want, the reason why it fails is cause its not at all what you really want, its what you think you want, and god will grant what you truly want even if its not what you expected..... thats what Ive learned so far.... correct anything I say, thats just where I am at right now.

kevinloa74 · Unread post by **kevinloa74** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 8:33 am

i didnt mean to say you didnt have good success or that other systems had better success. i kno that is up to the user. i just wanted to kno the diff between praying and hoodooing. they seemed the same to me are there diff subgroups in hoodoo? i know in psionics you have psychokenesis, pyro, telepathy, scanning etc. are there some areas taht hoodoo does not have a condition for like i didnt see anything about controlling fires or weather or any talk of things like evolving spiritually. would hoodoo be more focused on getting you what you want/need physically than this other magical goals like telpathic comm.

is it more practical focused. would u equate the praying to bringin the power of god in material world? in praying do you pray like southern baptist preacher with the whooping and the tonage or do you pray more chant like?are there diff for diff work. like does one method work better for one type of work ofer other?

Unread post by **Devi Spring** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 8:55 am

Prayer is personal. If you grew up in Southern Baptist churches, then that's probably how you'll pray. Catholics will pray differently again - and their conjure works just as well.

I grew up with everyone speaking in tongues, however I was never gifted with that ability - I pray strongly in the style of prayer that would lead up to tongues (a lot of "In the name of Jesus, I ask", "in the name of Jesus, I command"), and also mix in Hebraic elements as I have a background in ceremonialism, and for some cases (mostly healing/blessing) I'll sing in the spirit in Hebrew, and many times I'll use Catholic prayers to begin or end a work (Lord's Prayer, Hail Mary, Glory Be) and the traditional Catholic prayers for saints/angels as part of the conjure. Doesn't really matter HOW you pray, just that you pray effectively.

The power in hoodoo really comes from tapping into and communicating with the spirits of things, and getting them to work with/for you for a trick. The prayer brings in the power and judgement of God, and further empowers your work. But really being able to access the spirit-energy of the herbs, roots, saints, etc is key. It's kind of very shamanic in that way. Different people accomplish this in different ways - some just do it by talking to the spirits as if they were having a conversation with people, others accomplish that by means of their prayers to God, I'm sure others have other methods as, again, each person does things in the way that works best for them. But hoodoo is all about spirit/Spirit...hence "conjure' being another term for it, because you are conjuring spirits and working with them to get the job done.

thatdude915 · Unread post by **thatdude915** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 11:35 am

How does one pray effectively? What are positive signs your prayers have been heard or answered?

Unread post by **Devi Spring** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 12:58 pm

Well, praying effectively isn't just saying "Dear God please bless this mojo bag. Amen." It's the amount of focus that you bring to it. Really feeling the energy around you, while building up a charge of your emotions and desires, amplifying it using the words of your prayer, and then sending that lazer-beam into the work. You use the words of the prayer as a carrier for those energies which you call up (when linking into the spirit of the herbs, roots, or when asking for aid from angels, spirits, etc), and as a way to direct them. You use the prayer to link together your mind-body-spirit towards one very specific end.

It's not something you can easily describe, because each person experiences it differently, and it's a rather ineffable process. I feel that having "the gift" for work is in large part a natural ability to move energy around, and intuitively direct it. You can certainly learn techniques to get better at it, and I believe that everyone can learn to do it a little bit - but it's either something that comes really naturally or its not. Again - I think everyone does it differently, even if they are using similar techniques.

When someone really knows how to pray, the energy of the room will shift significantly while they are doing it. You can FEEL good strong prayer.

You know your prayers have been heard really easily if you can communicate with spirits - you call them up, talk to them, and start working directly. Otherwise it's just like waiting for any other spell to manifest - you got your 3 days for a sign, 3 weeks for movement, final result in 3 months. Even after you talk to the spirits directly, they still need time to work - so you're still there waiting out the 3-3-3.

MysticRootworker · Unread post by **MysticRootworker** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 2:02 pm

Thank You Devi for such informative posts. I am learning to do as you said and put my feelings into my prayer. I have always been very spiritual in the sense that I would feel moved while in church (often to tears) even as a teenager. I feeI connected at all times to my "spirit people" as I have called them for some time as well as praying to my angel helpers too. I guess we all have a way of thinking about them.

People think I am crazy as I often call upon them to help me find things and sure enough they never let me down. I guess its just comforting for me to feel as though I have these unseen entities helping me through life. I always believed, but after my husband died I became more in tune, partly because I want to believe he is still my friend helping me as he always did. We were partners and buddies in all that we did and I like to think that hasnt changed completely.

I know the energy you speak of (I have been able to do it before during work) but I dont think I was truly aware of just how important it is in good conjure. I like the feeling of building the energy I guess you would call it. I'm not sure as I am still learning. I know in my heart that this is right for me on all levels. I am amazed at all I have learned and will continue to learn for a long time to come from all of the information provided by people such as yourself. I am looking forward to the day when I will be able to take Cat's course. Until then I will continue to read and study and practice.

With much thanks

Neva

GoddessMojo · Unread post by **GoddessMojo** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 2:20 pm

kevinloa74,

It's really good to see you here and I think your question is very thoughtful. Personally, I do see my prayers and the preparations I take to perform them with my work as similar to the ways I learned to ground, center, focus, and cast my energy in various other practices, but explaining the difference is difficult. I am not a practicing Christian, although I was reared in the Christian church; and when I first began working in hoodoo, I did not include 'christian style' praying in my work, instead I worked as I had in other magical practice. Over a very short time however, I came to understand that this was counterproductive, especially in hoodoo; as this tradition recognizes the inherent spirit in all things. By ignoring the spirit of the ingredients of my work and being concerned only with my energy/thoughts/desires I invalidate the power in it.

To me, prayer is different than 'charging' because it is acknowledging and seeking assistance from the power outside of myself, where taking energy and forming it and sending it back out is all self. In the end I personally feel Hoodoo has given me a better and very different understanding of my Christian roots and helped me reconnect to that spirituality in a new way, which has been unexpected and very rewarding.

Where you read about the southern Baptist speak- I think that is a personal preference. I recall the page where cat talks about this, and my understanding is that she was trying to impart the verbal rhythm that is used in all kinds of churches (not just southern Baptist, or even Christian) to develop power in the words, and yes, this is another way to manipulate your energy as you pray. A really, really good example that you can listen to on the internet is the cadence that Martin Luther King Jr. spoke with- find a few of his speeches to listen to and you will hear, and FEEL, something beyond the words. The point is to use the rhythm, volume, and words to help you create a state of mind, to help focus your intent and make it more powerful. Just as you would use energy to do the same, but when you speak aloud to God, it is a bit different. All great speakers do this, and it is just one component of prayer.

If you have difficulty wrapping your mind around free-form prayers in the beginning, don't stress about it because it takes time and there is no instruction book, since your prayer is yours alone. You might consider trying out various psalms as prayers for a while- this helped me, particularly in understanding how to construct a powerful prayer on my own. Find one for your need, read it to yourself first to understand it, perhaps meditate on it a bit, then get on your knees and read it with as much feeling as you can, even if it feels strange or you feel nothing. I have found that if I really have trouble understanding a psalms, or 'feeling' it, that praying it prostrate (face down on the ground) with the intent to understand helps. Really! Over time, the psalms will help you connect with prayer. Everything I have read, heard, and experienced says to me that they are very effective, even for non-believers (obviously belief helps). Secrets of the Psalms is an excellent book and (edited to complete this sentence) is available through LM.

Also I think it is good to realize that in addition to coming from a Christian background, Hoodoo originates from a people who were most concerned with having basic needs met. Love, money, family, health...or the things that get in the way of these. For the most part Hoodoo's earliest practitioners were poor, oppressed, people, who had been so for generations. Weather and mind-reading (in my opinion) would be for the most part considered God's business, and only yours to meddle in if you were gifted with that ability, if they were considered at all. That doesn't mean these things weren't/aren't of interest or done. Or that when you learn the real roots of rootwork, you can't then use the fundamentals to do things of your own making. But more or less I find Hoodoo is a far more 'practical' magical system all around, concerned with making your personal life better. Hope that helps.

thatdude915 · Unread post by **thatdude915** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 3:24 pm

thanks for the insight, I have been praying and praying and have actually seen some signs but have not manifested yet.... I need to focus more in the prayer I guess

GoddessMojo · Unread post by **GoddessMojo** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 4:06 pm

thatdude915-
It also might help to trust in the power of your prayer and work, and let it be. I recall being taught in church that sometimes we have to 'put it in the hands of the Lord'. Remember that when you are praying to God, or to a saint, ancestor, or spirit, you are asking for their help, and telling them you believe they can do it.

Think about this in terms of personal relationships in the physical plane. If you come to me with a problem and say, "Brandi, I can't do this all on my own, will you please help me, and in return I will respect you and give you this gift", but then never trust in me enough to let me give you the help without asking that same thing over and over again..."Brandi, will you help me?", "Brandi, are you listening?", "Brandi, have you done it yet?".... I might get a bit cross about helping you. I might still do it, I might not. I might delay out of irritation. But I will definitely not feel you trust me enough to help, deep down.
I am not saying don't keep up your prayers, but it has been discussed before that focusing too much on your target or goal can work against you in many ways. Maybe you could focus your prayers now on giving thanks for help you know is manifesting, or for faith in yourself and your work.

thatdude915 · Unread post by **thatdude915** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 4:27 pm

You are right, I am going to start letting it work it self out and just pray but with the intentions of giving thanks, I dont want to over do it, I have been praying daily for a few months and lighting candles daily as well ..... is that to much or no?

Unread post by **CopperFox** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 4:59 pm

@thatdude915 -- Not at all too much. Even when not actively working conjure most spiritual folks will pray daily and many like to enhance their prayers by setting a light.

thatdude915 · Unread post by **thatdude915** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 6:00 pm

thats copperfox, so lighting a candle everyday is ok then? just making sure, I always keep on lit for St.Jude, St. Expedite, St. Helen, St. Anthony , and our lady of guadalupe

Unread post by **Literarylioness** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 10:59 pm

Prayer to me is longing. I was praying tonight and I put all my longing into it. Please, please, help me with this. I felt someone was listening too,

Mary

Brida · Unread post by **Brida** » Mon Jan 25, 2010 7:42 pm

Hey Kevinloa,

I am so proud to see you are learning the craft.

with hugs and prayers,
Brida

Nathaniel · Unread post by **Nathaniel** » Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:11 pm

hi. could anyone give me their opinion of using visualization to improve and develop your psychic and spiritual gifts please? it is wildly believed that by imagining yourself as a very powerful rootworker and psychic that the "retuning" of the thought forces of the mind will help these desires to manifest?
It is helping me to "feel" the part and to even study more to gain this goal.
what do you think of this technique? how do you use visualization in your spiritual practices?

thanks all!

Unread post by **Turnsteel** » Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:42 pm

Well, I'll say this, simply visualizing and wishing for something, nine and nine tenths out of ten, doesn't get you results. If your are going to get anything, be that skill as a rootworker, or a job, you have to go out and earn it. That said, visualization is not my strongest modality, which doesn't bother me much at all and certainly doesn't hamper my work.The idea that by just imagining really well will cause it to manifest in your life strikes me as rather, how to put this, new age. Rootworkers do not become great because they visualize and wish for it, they become great because they work with their gift.

MysticRootworker · Unread post by **MysticRootworker** » Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:15 am

Are you kinda working with the idea of "fake it til you make it"? I know that just visualizing for a spell or anything we wish alone probably wont bring it to us. I mean even working with the law of attraction teachings- both the new writings and the older ones still require the "emotion" behind it. But I do still believe that if we "see" ourselves in a certain way- whether it is for something we want to be or not, WILL effect us in some mannner. Good or bad. I think what you are doing can only Help you reach your goals. Ofcourse as HailDiscordia says we still have to do the "work". It's like the athletes who "see" themselves performing in the manner they desire Before actually doing the physical act. They swear that it improves their performance. But visualizing alone certainly wont help them bring in the big bucks! lol So why should it be any different for any other aspect of our lives? So go for it Nathaniel. I am comlpetely a novice just learning this wonderful way of life- so I can only give you my PERSONAL opinion.
Good Luck to you!

Nathaniel · Unread post by **Nathaniel** » Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:46 am

hi and thanks everyone. one thing that i immediately noticed about this forum is that UNlike most there is little to no EGO flying all over the place. No ONE person trying to rule over and dominate everything.

THANKS for helping, giving me advice and just being here for me. i am in the HooDoo course and to tell the truth i laid it to the side for awhile cause i had a bad habbit of going from book to book.But i am back studying the course again and a very BIG part of why that is is that now i have a lot of people who are on the path as i with this and in this forum. another VERY BIG thing that will hinder your studies is not having enough money to buy all the materials to work with in the first place. I agree, WORK has to be done to reach that goal but you need the materials to work with and you need the money to buy the materials lol

thanks!!