Lucky Mojo Hoodoo Rootwork Hour 5/3/06 Spiritual Justice and Retribution Spells (Ms. Robin, Eoghan Ballard, Nagasiva)

[tweetybird448]

hello

Miss Cat i looked in the messages and i could not find last week's notes. I saw that someone else asked the same question as I. I got every post but that one.

(Well, you are right in that it is not archived. I pretty clearly recall checking it over and approving it, so perhaps Yahoo "ate" it in transmission (which has happened more than once). If Michaele has it in her files -- for she was the one who wrote it up -- perhaps she will resend it... --cat)

[MissMichaele]

--- In hrcourse@yahoogroups.com, Miss Cat wrote:

> >(Well, you are right in that it is not archived. I pretty clearly
recall checking it over and approving it, so perhaps Yahoo "ate" it in
transmission (which has happened more than once). If Michaele has it
in her files -- for she was the one who wrote it up -- perhaps she
will resend it... --cat)
> >

I'll do that as soon as I get home this afternoon.

I'll put Dr. K's name under my Brigid candle, too.

Michaele / Mother Pyrite

[MissMichaele]

2006-5) May 3: Black Magic, Spiritual Justice and Retribution Spells,
with Robin York, Eoghan Ballard, and nagasiva yronwode

(I had trouble receiving the show over the web/radio, so called in a few minutes late. - Mother Pyrite)

EOGHAN BALLARD: …. Christianity and the religions that influenced it, such as Zoroastrianism, are founded on a dualistic notion of deity -- even more so than the Jewish / Arabic traditions that are its official ancestors. Even the Bible does not draw such a clear line between good God / evil devil.

Bantu traditions have no such demarcation. Nsambi Mpongo created all, good and bad. "Nsambi Mpongo created mankind and then left him to suffer." Not cynicism, but reflects idea that supreme deity is only creative, not redemptive; redemption, salvation, is other, lesser deities' business -- they serve functions similar to angels, saints.

This is a worldview in which there are few absolutes. Forerunner to modern ethical relativism. An "evil" entity may do good things; a "good" entity may do evil things. What is good for the family or the community --rather than the individual-- is the touchstone of morality.

Witchcraft is thought to reside in a special gland that only witches have; it gives them *ndoki,* morally neutral magical power that can be used for good or ill.

Tying and nailing are central to Congo magic *and* religion, even Congo Christianity. Related to sex, sacrifice and killing. This is what made the crucifix such a powerful, and acceptable, symbol to Congolese in the 15th century.

Words, names, magically useful [in much the same way Chinese use puns in assigning magical attributes]. Various animals or animal parts associated with witches because of shared characteristics. For instance: owls are white (like the dead), hunt at night (like witches go hag-riding); cats can see in the dark like a diviner (diviners keep a pair of dried cats' eyes to seek out witches); dogs can see the dead and kill without a sound (most dogs over there are Basenjis, which are voiceless). Graveyard dirt; snakeskins, because the shedding suggests dying/rebirth and snakes are deadly. Nailing, tying, and powders are basic features of Congo revenge magic.

Malign magic defined not by end result but by *intention.* As Kimpa Vita said: "Nothing else in religious practice matters; it's the intention that God takes."

ROBIN YORK: Don't *play* with this kind of magic. Possession is possible. Protect yourself and your workspace with blessing oils and blessing salt.

Some use fire, fire-and-water, the wind (stabbing the wind and then burying the knife in a black cloth) in "darkness magic." Wax dolls / dollbabies, candles, coffins, personal concerns (including blood or teeth). Religious cultures sometimes lump dark magic and white magic together and forbid it all. This is inaccurate; intent is all.

Gazing into dark water or black mirrors or even candle flame can bring in evil spirits. The hype about Ouija boards has some truth in it.

Double Witch-bottle: name paper, personal concerns, war water, in bottle: seal it and place inside larger bottle with broken glass, nails, pepper, goofer dust, urine, feces; seal and bury.

Or put that person in a coffin and bury it at an ancestor's grave "to take that person away." Instead of a dollbaby, use a chicken liver to represent the target. Bury at the graveyard or at the target's house. You can kill by stabbing a dollbaby in the heart; blind them so they can't see what you're doing; shackle their hands.

CAT YRONWODE: What's the danger to the magician? Do you have to take off the evil you've done?

ROBIN: Yes. I bathe with Chinese Wash and then take herbal bath; when leaving tub, walk backward between two white candles. *Before* doing the work, use Blessing oil on yourself and workspace. This work commands high prices because it is dangerous and difficult.

MISS CAT: Do you ever feel that such work comes back on you? Or can you go on with your life because you're doing it in someone else's name?

ROBIN: Sometimes it does bounce back on me even though I am doing it in someone else's name, so I have to bathe again.

MISS CAT: Robin is one of the few practitioners I know in the country who does this work **AND WILL TALK ABOUT IT OPENLY.**

NAGASIVA YRONWODE: Rather than a focus on moral character, the emphasis in dark magic literature is on power. Dark rituals done in secluded places in the depths of night -- midnight.

Five categories, in ascending order of severity:

* Control/domination/restriction -- mirror box is a prime example; so is a nation sack.

* Hexing, to do damage -- nails, thorns, pins, pricking / cutting / tearing objects, hot things, black walnut, asafoetida, DUME, Crossing, Damnation

* Disruption -- mustard seeds, Inflammatory Confusion, War Water, wasps' nests, ants' nests to have them be "eaten apart"

* Dispersion -- "move away" spells, Hot Foot Powder. Outhouse work is a widely used technique.

* Compacts/alliances with questionable or ambiguous entities. Some identify Satan as a master conjurer. Dark ceremonies/dealings with the Black Man at the Crossroads often use valerian, patchouli.

MISS CAT: Other spirits to contact besides Satan: ghosts of murderers and other people who died badly.

SIVA: Yes, a soldier's ghost, or someone else used to obedience -- less dangerous to you.

MISS CAT: Safer than, say, going to the grave of a serial killer. What is the largest class of dark spells?

SIVA: Damage / revenge -- of various types; death is not the only kind of revenge sought. Next, search for power. Hexing / jinxing most common.

MISS CAT: So many ways to do it -- tie nature, freeze tongue.

SIVA: Those are methods of containment -- restriction.

MISS CAT: I'm so inured to that, I don't even think of that as "dark."

BEATRICE: Re spiritual justice: when you can't take a person to court, but you've been hurt too badly to let it go -- what courses are open to you?

MISS CAT: Depends on what they've done. How bad was it?

BEATRICE: Someone was done out of inheritance and needed the money for support.

ROBIN: Well, do you want to do serious damage or just slap their wrist? If the latter, a Pay Me spell, possibly w/ Court Case, would be enough. Now, if she really doesn't like them, she could pound their stuff into a gum tree or put it in an anthill to run them crazy or get them eaten alive.

MISS CAT: I'm an Old Testament type -- seal their wombs.

SIVA: I'd make a really strong spell to make them give me the money back.

ROBIN: You want Bend Over, then, or sweetening.

MISS CAT: Yes, sweetening too, because I believe in using both the hot and cold, rough and smooth, carrot and stick at the same time; but if that doesn't work, I'd go for full-tilt vengeance.

BEATRICE: How do you use asafaetida?

MISS CAT: It is used in Indian cooking. Some people think it smells like extra-strong garlic; others, like me, want to leave the room when you open the jar. That's why I mix it with Vandal Root -- nobody likes that combo.

SIVA: (very softly) except me.

MISS CAT: Especially when you add sulphur. BTW, don't burn sulfur indoors.

DARA: Creosote bush smells bad, too. It is a desert plant, not from the hoodoo regions of the South.

MISS CAT: Asafoetida is also called Devil's Dung. Wash your hands with Van Van afterwards, or everyone will know by the smell what you've been doing.

SIVA: Asafoetida also used for protection against a disease.

MISS CAT: Yes, and using asafoetida against someone works the same way: "You're nothing but a disease to me."

BEATRICE: What if you aren't sure who did you wrong?

MISS CAT: Use pendulum or boil their names in salt water. Prepare papers carefully -- call them into their papers. The guilty party will call you -- and complain about heat! -- while their name is boiling. That's a Germanic method. If none of them respond, try another method.

SIVA: Or you could work on "My Unknown Enemy," just as you'd do a love spell on "My Ideal Lover".

MISS CAT: Eoghan, where is that ndoki gland?

EOGHAN: Generally thought to be in spleen or stomach, somewhere in central torso.

MISS CAT: Would you get that gland when a witch died, to use it for power?

EOGHAN: No; you don't want that power to continue in the community. Destroy the body or bury it in way that contained or mitigated that person's influence. People who had this gland were not aware of it, or if so, sought to be rid of that power. Witches distinct from sorcerers, who might work for good or for evil. "Witch" was more like psychic vampire or cannibal, hag, vampire [liver eater?]

DR. KIONI: "Suffer not a witch to live" -- not all people with spiritual power are meant, but only those who were a danger to the community or ho competed with the priesthood [voice difficult to distinguish; I may have this part wrong. -- MCM]

EOGHAN: Ndoki has variety of applications: nowadays generally refers to the vampire type of power, but this is not universal. Can be used more generically for "power." Sometimes used of exceptional healers, leaders, successful businessmen. Those who step over the line into personal interest vs. community interest is likely to be condemned.

SEQUOIA: Can you make someone go to court? My baby's grandfather is trying to do me out of custody of my child so as to control his dead father's estate.

MISS CAT: Robin, could you explain a Pay Me/Court Case mixture to her?

ROBIN: Dress all papers. Light brown candles for court case. Start 9 days before court date. Put names of attorneys, judge, in honey jars.

MISS CAT: All social workers, too. What kind of papers are you being asked to sign, Sequoia?

SEQUOIA: Waivers and bond. If they do what they should, they'll put it in a fund for the baby till he's 18. Because we were not married, lawyer says there's nothing that can be done.

MISS CAT: But now it's a child welfare issue; you probably do have a case. Add Compelling powder. You're COMPELLING him to PAY you before the COURT. And it wouldn't hurt you if the grandfather was dead, right?

SEQUOIA: Grandfather lives in a state where grandparents' rights are recognized.

ROBIN: But first they have to prove you're an unfit mother.

MISS CAT: My heart says you need a woman lawyer who has a child herself. A woman lawyer will help you.

QUEEN MABULLA: Take pic of grandfather and write petition 9 times on the back while cursing him. Put pic upside down in lye or Drano; burn 2 reversing candles on it for 9 days. Put remains in bag. Stick 9 nails in a lime while describing how horrible his life will be. Go to graveyard. Pay 3 pennies at entrance, drop bag in open grave; go away w/o looking back. And find a women's rights advocate group!

SEQUOIA: I only have a group picture of the grandfather.

QUEEN MABULLA: Put `em all in it! That'll hurt *him.*

MISS CAT: Or you could take it to Kinko's and blow it up; cut him out of the copy and use that. Re: lye and Drano, DON'T PUT IT IN ALUMINUM PAN! It's caustic and toxic! Use Pyrex or porcelain.

QUEEN MABULLA: Write his name on toilet paper and every time you have bowel movement, curse him, wipe and flush. Write his name on torn
scraps of brown paper and walk on them while cursing him.

MISS CAT: Curse him with accelerated old age: "John Henry [or whatever his name is], your old age is coming upon you fast; your knees are getting weak; your hands can't lift what they used to lift. Your death is coming upon you; I see your third heart attack coming -- either that or a stroke!" -- or words to that effect.

Then, of course, cleanse yourself. Don't go to sleep in that anger. While cleansing, say "I did that for the sake of my family, for the protection of my child" and ask for forgiveness of sins.

QUEEN MABULLA: Wear rubber gloves while working, and protective mojo on neck.

SEQUOIA: Can I get someone to do it for me if I can't remember it all?

MISS CAT: You could pay someone. It will be in the audioblog later so you can listen multiple times. Queen Mabulla, do you do this kind of work?

QUEEN MABULLA: I assist people with divine justice.

MISS CAT: You have a lot of angry women on your side now.

QUEEN MABULLA: Find an organization that helps battered women; they'll know who to send you to.

BEATRICE: What if you want to just reverse the trouble?

MISS CAT: Reversing candle -- freestanding is my choice; write / carve their name backwards on black half, yours forward on colored half. Point toward their house as you dress it. Dress away from yourself w/ Reversing oil and call their meanness back to them. Switch hands and dress the colored part toward yourself with your other hand, using some kind of attraction oil, saying "May all I have been denied come to me." Burn upside down on a mirror.

DR. KIONI: During show times, you can ASK YOUR QUESTIONS IN REALTIME ONLINE!!!!

[conjurebyking]

I just read the notes from the May 3, 2006 Hoodoo Rootwork Hour and
I have a question regarding doing "bad" work. It was mentioned in
the dialogue that doing "bad" work can bounce back on the person and
that is why it is necessary to take spiritual baths afterwards.
Does this mean that there is an element of karmic retribution
involved in doing Hoodoo in general? I was under the impression that
the magical arts as originally practiced in Africa did not
incorporate karma in it's belief system. I have a friend (not a
Hoodoo practitioner) that rants on about the 3 fold karma attack
that follows bad or misdirected magical work. I personally feel that
some things are justified, especially if the person for whom
the "bad" work is intended was particularly harmful to others. I
have also read about another point of view that is interesting as
well. This perspective basically states that the universe in all of
its infinity and power is basically neutral and that as entities of
the universe, it gives us what we want. So if we want to believe in
and pray to Aphrodite or Zeus for example, then those forces and
their aspects will manifest for us...or if we want to believe in
karma then we will experience the effects of karma. Basically, the
point is that if we choose to believe in something then the aspects
of that belief system will manifest in our lives. Any perspectives
on these points? Thanks.

(It was Robin who said that, but i hope she doesn't mind if i put in my two cents. It is not about karma in the Indian Hindu sense, for Robin, who does this kind of work, explained that she sometimes must take two baths rather than one to rid herself of the aftermath of taking on revenge and justice work. If karma were the issue, a bath would not be sufficent to wash it away. here are three reasons why an extra cleansing bath may be needed: (1) People who pay to have bad work done are often (not always) themselves troubled or troubling people. Say you are doing bad work on behalf of someone who is themselves a bad person, but you don't know it fully (you may be inexperienced, failed to have done a reading on the situation, just been careless, etc.). The ugly, ill, and evil spirits that surround your client may atach to you if you hang out with them too much. (2) Any protection around your client's enemy (whether that enemy is a good person or a bad person), including shielding by blessings and shielding by hostile protection spells, may be triggered by you acting as your client's agent, and you may get slapped down for it, 'cause it was you who crossed the line. (3) Evil, ugly, and ill spirits are simply attracted to bad doings of all kinds and if you do that kind of work, they will swarm up around you. --cat)

[conjurebyking]

> (It was Robin who said that, but i hope she doesn't mind if i put
in my two cents. It is not about karma in the Indian Hindu sense,
for Robin, who does this kind of work, explained that she sometimes
must take two baths rather than one to rid herself of the aftermath
of taking on revenge and justice work. If karma were the issue, a
bath would not be sufficent to wash it away. here are three reasons
why an extra cleansing bath may be needed: (1) People who pay to
have bad work done are often (not always) themselves troubled or
troubling people. Say you are doing bad work on behalf of someone
who is themselves a bad person, but you don't know it fully (you may
be inexperienced, failed to have done a reading on the situation,
just been careless, etc.). The ugly, ill, and evil spirits that
surround your client may atach to you if you hang out with them too
much. (2) Any protection around your client's enemy (whether that
enemy is a good person or a bad person), including shielding by
blessings and shielding by hostile protection spells, may be
triggered by you acting as your client's agent, and you may get
slapped down for it, 'cause it was you who crossed the line. (3)
Evil, ugly, and ill spirits are simply attracted to bad doings of
all kinds and if you do that kind of work, they will swarm up around
you. --cat)
> >

Cat,

Thank you for your reply. Would you say that "bad" work would
include Hot Foot Spells and Get out of town spells or is it more
severe like death spells or illness spells? - Ron

(See siva's mention on the five kinds of coercive and dark work that appear in Michaele's notes on the show: there is a continuum, and how evil any gven Hot Foot spell is would depend on how much the person deserved it, how far you sent them, how much you made them suffer, how tore up your moving them out would leave their family, and so forth. --cat)

[Quimbisero]

--- In hrcourse@yahoogroups.com, "rwest02" <rwest02@...> wrote:
> >
> I just read the notes from the May 3, 2006 Hoodoo Rootwork Hour and
> I have a question regarding doing "bad" work. It was mentioned in
> the dialogue that doing "bad" work can bounce back on the person and
> that is why it is necessary to take spiritual baths afterwards.
> Does this mean that there is an element of karmic retribution
> involved in doing Hoodoo in general?

Karma is a Hindu concept with moral overtones, but more directly is
related to Hindu ideas about life and the otherlife. As such it is
very specific to those traditions and is not a concept you will find
among African traditions. It is also significantly different from
European moralistic concepts of sin and retribution.

The reason for negative "backdraft" in Hoodoo and African traditions
is more about the mechanics of magical action and energy. If someone
does a work and the intended recipient has either intentional
protection or is protected unbeknownst to themselves, or inadvertantly
the magic is deflected for other reasons, the natural place for it to
go is back from whense it came.

Also, as Cat noted, this sort of work can create an ambience which
calls certain kinds of spirits and forces which one might wish to not
have around. For those reasons the baths and other protections are
resorted to.

Eoghan

[conjurebyking]

Eoghan --

Very insightful. I guess I was making comparisons with those
European magical practices (that promote the "3 fold karma attack"
for bad work done) with Hoodoo. Thank you, Cat and Eoghan, for the
clarification. - Ron

(Ron, this is off the topic of hoodoo, but you might also wish to study the roots of what you call 'European magical practices (that promote the "3 fold karma attack" for bad work done)' -- it is my understanding that this is not a European magical belief at all but that it entered European occultism during the late 19th and early 20th centuries due to a chain of teachers commencing with H. P. Blavatsky and Annie Besant of the Theosophical Society, Vivekandana of the Vedanta Society, and Paramahansa Yoganada of the Self-Realization Fellowship. These people taught modified notions of Karma from Hinduism, which were widely popularized in the New Thought movement of the 1910s as a pseudo-scientific moral "law of cause and effect" analogous to the "equal and opposite reactions" of Newtonian physics.

During the next 50 years or so, these ideas about "Karma" spread out into the general pool of Anglo-Indian Orientalism, including Theosophically-influenced Co-Masonry, and were eventually reflected by the Theosophically influenced Co-Mason Gerald Gardner, the originator of modern Wicca. His notion of karma as "three-fold" echoes other old European three-part mnemonics such as the triads of Freemasonry (three lights, three officers, three degrees, three orders of architecture, et al), the triplicities of Anglo-European fairy tales (three bears, three brothers, three wolves), the Christian triple godhead (Father, Son, and Holy Ghost), Lewis Caroll's Bellman's Rule ("What i tell you three times is true"), the modern triple goddess (Maiden, Mother, Crone), the triple crown, and on and on and on.

Gardner quantified the "3-fold" nature of "Karma" for use as a rede (or guideline) among his students. His "3-fold law of return" is therefore, in short, not a part of traditional European magic, but rather a modern religious misapplication of Hindu religious beliefs applied to a new religion. (By the way, Gardner was not the only one who applied triplicity to Hinduism -- equally well known is the reduction of the four major branches of Indian religion (Vaishnavism, Shaktiism, Shaivism, and Brahmaism) into THREE, resulting in the newly-created concept of the "Trimurti" or triple godhead of "Hinudism," a religion that did not exist as such until it was produced under the reign of British colonial government in India.) --cat)

[Literarylioness]

Hi,

In my experience, serving one's Ancestors and Spirits forms a form of
protection. I would describe it as a "shield" around certain people. For
example, say a person got a client who wanted to do me harm for some
reason. That practitioner would have A LOT of problems. The Spirits that I
serve and my LWA would protect me. They would throw "back" the negativity
onto whoever was trying to cause me harm.

This just happened to me last week. I had an "acquaintance" who was
interested in my practices. He wanted to know about what I "practiced." He
is what I would call a "cafeteria" practitioner. He does Kabballah,
Santeria, Grimore, and what not. He is a fellow astrologer. He is
interested in Vodou and I explained my path. I am very proud of my religion
and am honest about it.

I invited him to my husband's birthday party last week, because the guy
seemed lonely. I now know why he is lonely. The guy comes to my home and
he sees that we are doing alright. My husband and I discuss our plans to
have a baby this year. It was a very nice party and everyone had a good
time.

The next day this guy e-mails me basically offering his "services" to help
me get pregnant for a "price." The guy was casing me in my own home. I
firmly told this guy to mind his own business and thanks for the offer. The
guy went bonkers. He felt "entitled" to give me his opinion and help with
my family's reproductive efforts. I had to clean my home, give my husband a
bath, and I had to take a bath. I did not want this guy's bad attitude or
anything connected to him in my home.

So what I am getting at is: you just never know. You might run into some
nut who thinks he is God's gift to magic (like me) and you need to protect
yourself. There are people out there who may seem O.K., but they could
become jealous or envious of you. Someone could go to a Hoodoo practitioner
and say "I want you to get back at X, because she did something to me." You
do the work and realised "why" X did what she did to the client.

This brings up how important it is to do readings and really check people
out. I had an unease about this guy, but I ignored it. I should not have
allowed him into my home, but you live and you learn.

Just my experience,

Mary

(Truth. And thank you for telling it, and for explaining it as well as i have ever seen it explained. --cat)

[Lord Orion]

Hi Cat and Eoghan:

I found this post particulary interesting and had to give my comments. I
come from a more traditional line of European witchcraft. I know some folks
on this list think that none of the traditional teachings survived. I wont
argue with you, but in short...it did.

Indeed, the word "karma" was never used in older practices and traditions as
I know it. What was passed from my teachers to me is the saying "the toucher
is touched", which basically asserts that whatever you touch touches you
back. Or as my witch Mother always said, whatever magical work you do, you
get is on you. Be sure you want your own magic on you because it marks you
for the spirits and the kind of spirits you attrack.However, the concept of
a threefold nature is indeed a part of European magical tradition...not as
karma though The magic workers of northern Europe, which we often over-
generalize as "Celts" perceived the universe as tripartite in nature...with
an upper (star/ sky) world, lower (ocean) world and middle (earth) world.
Magic works through all three of these depending on its aim and allied
forces. I hope this adds some insight.

Blessings,

Orion Foxwood

(We agree completely. The tripartite nature of things is deeply embedded within the European tradition. But "Karma" is not. The re-framing of Karma (which is not tripartite in its original cultural context) into a "three-fold law" ultimately traces its way back to the British conquest of India, and hence to the rise of Orientalim among the New Age Theosophists and those downstream from them. --cat)

[conjurebyking]

Thanks again Cat...my primary interest is Hoodoo and that is why I
am here. I think that because there has mostly been a European
perspective on the magical arts in the U.S. in print (until recent
years) that I misapplied some of the concepts to Hoodoo. At this
time, I know more about European magical traditions than I do about
magical traditions from African diaspora and that is one the reason
I am here. I guess I am in the learning process and that is why I
very grateful that everyone is so willing to shed more light on this
topic for me. My family is originally from New Orleans and many of
my family members practiced Hoodoo. I am enjoying this forum and
enjoying getting back in touch with my "roots". Happy Mother's Day
to all the mom's out there!

[Quimbisero]

This pretty concisely sums up the line of descent from classic
calvanism to the new age.

Eoghan

[Rune Wizard]

Cat, I must concure with both you and Orion as a Gardnerian by training and lineage that Karma is not part of what I was taught and what I call british traditional witchcraft. The power of 3 is there, but different levels of initiation reveal different meanings of the power of 3. Let's just say, P3 is not what I thought it was when I started on the wiccan path reading "The Complete Idiot's Guide to Wicca and Witchcraft". (feel free to read into that as much as you like!!!)

Its much more "complex" than some newtonion-like magick force which keeps all things in a "karmic balance" or through which a moral judgement is delivered by The Gods, or The Universe, or what have you. As my first teacher told me "That to which you turn your attention, turns its attention to you", which I think is what Orion's wise Mother was saying. I guess you could say, in the words of Mrs Slocum, "I Am Unanimous In This"!

So loving the course and the discussions on the board. What a great group of folks.

John

[iclsec]

Hello all,

With experience in Wicca, I wanted to expand my horizons.

With someone "severely" tormenting me, I ordered the 3 candle hex kit.

For entertainment purposes, I will tell you the short story of what has happened.

I drew a quincunx five point on the floor in my garage. Next I ritualized the black female candle and sit it in the center point. I invoked 'Papa' and left the area. The next morning I went out and found a dead 4ft long black snake at the garage door entrance. I went in the garage and looked at the candle, the wax looked like a black snake from where the candle was originally placed and headed toward the door and outside snake. The wax even had a head pointed up like a snake head over an inch off the floor. I was impressed at the speed and associated actions.

I wrapped the remnants of the candle with the dead snake and buried all in a graveyard at daybreak.

That was two candles ago (Body)(two weeks) and I haven't seen any producible changes in the evil targeted party. I have a feeling today is going to be the day, some of what she has done, comes back to her-- big-time, looking for an omen.

Blessed be!

Ray

[Quimbisero]

Just an observation here. "Santeria" is a term most often applied to
Cuban traditions of Orisha worship. However, it is a term usually used
by non-initiates. Generally speaking although there is a crowd who
seem bent on initiation collecting, most real and validly initiated
followers of any given Afro-diasporic religion do not dable in a half
dozen other things like the person you have described. The practical
reason for that (apart from Philosophical commitment) is that the
practice doesn't leave you with much time for dabbling.

Eoghan

[catherineyronwode]

Ray,

You seem to be performing some type of eclectic not-exactly-hoodoo candle work. I'm not sure who you ordered from, but LMCCo does not offer a " 3 candle hex kit."

I presume that as a member of Wicca, by "I invoked 'Papa'" you mean that you contacted some form of the African deity Legba (?) without actually being an initiate in an Afican Diasporic religion.

I also do not understand what you mean by "two candles ago (Body)(two weeks)" -- that is, i understand two candles and two weeks, but what does "(Body)" mean to you in this context -- figural candles?

I wish i had a clue as to what tradition you are working in, but it seems to be producing some powerful signs for you -- the snake and snake-wax, so it may just be a matter of time before you achieve your goals.

Good luck.

[crowgrrrl77]

Well put Eoghan, Orisha traditions require a great deal of hands on learning at
ceremonial functions , and that requires LOTS of time in working with godparents, and in
personal study. Seven years in and I'm just getting a grasp of how deep this religion is. It
makes me admire those Old Souls who created such elegant ,intricate, and wise paths.
Renee

[Honeybeelight]

Good point, though I know a number of people who started in Wicca and transferred over
to one or more ATRs. And I know that it isn't uncommon for one person to practice
Espiritismo, Lukumi, Palo, and also consider him-or-herself to be a "good Catholic."
However, in practical terms, one can't devote absolute equal time to all of the above, so
one usually ends up specializing a bit. Case in point, my padrino's family, where one
sister was crowned with Oya, one was a Palera, and one was an Espiritista. I should add
that the Palera had NO interest in making Ocha ("when I want to ask the santos for
something, I'll pull up a comfy chair and start to wait") and neither did the Espiritista.

I don't really know what someone does to "do" Santeria, unless it's miscellaneous trabajos,
but maybe that's what he means. I'd think that an actual aborisha would say "I belong to
an ile" or "I have my elekes," not "I do Santeria."

Melissa
(who can only afford a limited number of coconuts)

[CKioni]

Online in the Luckymojo Hoodoo Rootwork Hour AudioBlog and in the
iTunes podcast directory.

2006-5) May 3, 2006: The Lucky Mojo Hoodoo Rootwork Hour Black Magic,
Spiritual Justice and Retribution Spells, with Ms. Robin, Eoghan
Ballard, and nagasiva yronwode
--
http://hoodoorootwork.blogspot.com
Posted by Dr. Kioni to Luckymojo Hoodoo Rootwork Hour AudioBlog at
8/09/2006 09:41:24 PM

(HOORAY!!! I have updated the showlist page to reflect this change. It's at
http://www.luckymojo.com/showlist.html
Thank you, Dr. K., for all the work you do. I appreciate you more tan you will ever know. --cat)

[catherineyronwode]

I am so thrilled that these long-lost chat logs have come to light. Miss Michaele has preserved the spell recommendations for all to read. Thank you, Miss Michaele!