Basic Understanding of Traditional African American Hoodoo

[Lee Canipe]

The adoption of Ocha practices into hoodoo makes me sad. Not that there's
anything wrong with Regla de Ocha, but it simply isn't hoodoo. There is such
an incredibly rich cultural heritage in Southern hoodoo, and I feel that
often gets completely rolled over by the more "exotic" Afro-Carribean traditions.
And again, I must say, I'm in no way bashing these traditions-- I myself
have an interest in the Congo-derived traditions like Umbanda, Quimbanda,
Kimbanda, Espiritismo Cruzado, etc.-- but hoodoo is my culture, what my people
did, what is known on this land, and I hate to see that tradition being
disrespected by pulling in practices and beliefs that have never been part of hoodoo.

People are fond of saying hoodoo is a practice, not a religion or spiritual
tradition. Well, that may be technically true, but there is certainly a
mindset, a culture, a "way" about hoodoo that makes it unique. Come to a big
family pig-pickin' or fish fry down South, get your haircut in a small
neighborhood barber shop with only 2 chairs and 7 clients waiting, visit a real juke
joint and listen to some homegrown blues, attend a gospel service at small
rural church, talk to the farmers selling their produce on the road in front of
their house, walk the country roads and visit the old cemeteries & pay
attention at the crossroads... spend some time in the rural South and you'll start
to understand what I mean about hoodoo culture. It's part of being
Southern, and I think those old hoodoo ways are worth preserving.

Lee

(Amen. But don;t worry too much, Lee. The South is still the South, and East Oakland is still East Oakland. --cat)

[Literarylioness]

Hi Lee,

I agree with you and that is why I joined Cat's course. My first Voodoo Houngan
was Southern and a Rootworker. He came from a family of Rootworkers. He
always told me that he remembered his "roots." He always remembered he was
an American first and he honored his family traditions.

I think Southern Hoodoo is very much alive,

Mary

[Lee Canipe]

Rootwork (jeffnlynn@earthlink.net) writes:

> The Igbo or neighboring peoples made up the majority of slaves
> in Virginia and thus North Carolina, which got most of its slaves
> by way of Virginia ...

Hi Jeff,

I'm very interested in the ethnic origins of the African peoples in VA & NC.
Although my heritage is predominately Caucasian, I do have some African
ancestry from both sides of my family (including both free & slave). I live in
Kinston, NC which is located in the eastern part of the state about 30 miles
west of New Bern. Kinston is, and always has been, a majority
African-American town. Close to here is a tiny little town called Angola. There's also an
Angola Swamp in Pender Co., near Wilmington, NC. Now the swamp is called
Holly Shelter Swamp, but the old timers still refer to it as Angola Swamp. B
ased on these names, I'd always thought the majority of slaves came from Bantu
speaking areas in Africa.

Most of my father's people came from VA before the Revolutionary War and
were racially mixed before arriving in NC. They came mostly from Surry and
Nansemond Cos., VA. I descend from the racially mixed Allen, Bass, Bell,
Bolling, Branham, Chavis, Ivey, Johns, and Locklear families who came from VA to NC.
Most of these families now declare Native American ancestry, but records
show an African-European-Indian mix. An interesting note about the Ivey
family... my ancestor George Ivie, who was English, married a free Black woman
(some say her name was Elizabeth, others Hannah). In 1699, the VA colonial
government proposed passage of a law that would criminalize interracial marriage.
George Ivie went to the VA House of Burgesses and argued against the
passage of this bill. The record of George's petition is preserved in VA State
archives. The law pasted, and within a year the majority of the Ivey family
packed up and moved south to NC (along with many other families). North
Carolina did not pass laws against interracial marriage until 1741 (and even then
they were not as strictly enforced as in other areas).

On my mother's side I'm descended from a man named Senas who was a slave
owned by the Stroud family of Duplin Co., NC. Senas fathered a child with a
White/Indian maid and the child, Hannah Taylor, was bound into slavery to the
Stroud family. I don't know if Senas was born in NC.

If the majority of slaves brought to the Surry Co. area of VA were Igbo,
would it be safe to assume that my African ancestors were most likely Igbo?
What about the slaves in eastern NC? I'd always thought they were most likely
Kongo. Kongo cultural remnants are very strong in this area.

Lee

[Datura]

Jeff...Please could you tell why you came to these conclusions? I am also
interested in knowing the resources you are founding your statements on. I too
have an interest in that area of study in the Virginia and North Carolina
areas and this is a subject I would like to know more about.
Thanks.
Orva #462


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Quimbisero]

Shedding further light on the cultural origins which contributed to
Hoodoo.

According to an article in Sunday's Washington Post the original 20
and odd, as the original slaves brought to Virginia were called, were
not a mixed ethnic group as often claimed, nor were they brought from
the Caribbean. New data gathered as a result of historic detective
work indicates they had been captured from a Portuguese slave ship
which had collected them in Angola and that they were all of one
ethnic origin.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 01097.html

Mystery of Va.'s First Slaves Is Unlocked 400 Years Later

By Lisa Rein
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, September 3, 2006; Page A01

The article goes on to note that:

"Virginia's first Africans spoke Bantu languages called Kimbundu and
Kikongo. Their homelands were the kingdoms of Ndongo and Kongo,
regions of modern-day Angola and coastal regions of Congo. Both were
conquered by the Portuguese in the 1500s. The Africans mined tar and
rock salt, used shells as money and highly valued their children,
holding initiation ceremonies to prepare them for adulthood.

"And they most likely had been baptized as Christians, because the
kingdom of Ndongo converted to Christianity in 1490. Many were
literate. This background may be one reason some of Virginia's first
Africans won their freedom after years as indentured servants, the
historians said."

Eoghan

(Wonderful, Eoghan -- and thanks for the link. I really feel that in the years since you and i first met online, this field has been breaking wide open with new information, as researchers become more sophisticated about where to look for historical data and understand better how to interpret the data they find. Another interesting note in the article is this:

"Many Angolans followed -- not just to Virginia, but to New York and New England, say Thornton and Heywood, who are consultants to the Jamestown Settlement. Their research draws a portrait of the first Africans as urban people connected by common languages, who had had contact with Europeans for many years."

--cat)

[Datura]

It is wonderful that now from different sources information is forthcoming
about these early migrations and articles are being written and published
where all can gain access to.
I have been doing some research on the Slaves that came into a small
community located in Southern Maryland around the Port Tobacco area from the Island
of Barbados. A colony of white planters left the Barbados during the 1500's
and settled in the area now known as La Plata, Md. With them they brought
Slaves and began raising tobacco. This was before the Sugar and the rum trade
began in Barbados, up until that time tobacco was cash crop of Barbados. Many
of the records I have been researching are the original ones housed in the
Archives located in Barbados and also in the Maryland Archives located in
Annapolis. It is believed that the Slave population was brought to Barbados by
the Portuguese who then went on to South America also establishing a Slave
route there, as in many of the other Islands along the way. I am sure much
more research has been conducted since my early attempt at it some years
ago...however, the Barbados and Maryland connection remains to a very interesting
subject. Many of the descendants of those early Slaves are still living in and
around that area today.
Orva #462


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[rootwork]

Lee,

I am basing my thoughts on the Virginia slave population, which was
heavily drawn from the Bight of Biafra area. Most of the
scholarship I've seen argues that many or even most of the Biafrans
were Igbo or closely-related peoples. North Carolina, on the other
hand, is somewhat unique. It did not have a large number of slaves
shipped directly from Africa. Instead, they usually came from other
states, especially Virginia. Of course, I'm sure there were a fair
number of people of West Central African ancestry simply because
some were brought from South Carolina or elsewhere. The big Kongo
and Angolan influence comes mainly through Georgia and South
Carolina, but much less from Virginia. Thus, there should be a big
difference in the ethnic makeup based on the particular groups of
white and African settlers who came to each part of the state. The
names of which you speak certainly suggest a Central African
influence in your area. The name "Senas" might suggest a specific
origin. I'll see if I have anything on it when I go by my office
today.

Sincerely,
Jeff Anderson

[Quimbisero]

--- In hrcourse@yahoogroups.com, "hoodoodoctor3" <jeffnlynn@...> wrote:

> > I am basing my thoughts on the Virginia slave population, which was
> heavily drawn from the Bight of Biafra area. Most of the
> scholarship I've seen argues that many or even most of the Biafrans
> were Igbo or closely-related peoples. North Carolina, on the other
> hand, is somewhat unique. It did not have a large number of slaves
> shipped directly from Africa. Instead, they usually came from other
> states, especially Virginia. Of course, I'm sure there were a fair
> number of people of West Central African ancestry simply because
> some were brought from South Carolina or elsewhere. The big Kongo
> and Angolan influence comes mainly through Georgia and South
> Carolina, but much less from Virginia. Thus, there should be a big
> difference in the ethnic makeup based on the particular groups of
> white and African settlers who came to each part of the state. The
> names of which you speak certainly suggest a Central African
> influence in your area. The name "Senas" might suggest a specific
> origin. I'll see if I have anything on it when I go by my office
> today.

All of what you say, is what, for a long time people believed to be
the case. Sure, some of those people were present, but from what I am
reading now, many of these assumptions will be revised over the next
five or six years.

Eoghan

(Eoghan, the new DNA research, coupled with ship's logs, all now accessible through databases rather than pored over line by line, is blowing away assumptions right and left (can i get a witness, Dr. K.?) and is bringing a new depth to our understanding of how cultures have moved and spread over time. Often, these patterns are complex and consist of interlocking or colliding groups who mingle, but in cases where complete genetic assimilation was limited for one reason or another (e.g. due to racial prejudice), it can be as simple as "follow the DNA and you follow the culture." I tell you, this is an exciting time for me to be alive because, as you know, i long ago championed some then-unpopular theories when it came to the Congo roots of hoodoo, based almost entirely on my own takes on pheonotypal morphology, and now in my late middle age, while i am still young enough to say, "Nyah nyah, tolja so!" this DNA evidence and ship logs data is coming out. P.S., for those who have not a clue as to what i am talking about, it's this simple: if folks look like people who are still living in the Congo, then it is a legical bet that their ancestors came from the Congo, but you can't "prove" it to hidebound scholars who are convinced that their ancestors came from Nigeria or Benin. You can mention towns in the American South called Angola or squares called Congo Square, and the scholars will still just shrug it off, even though there are no towns called Dahomey or Yoruba in the USA or squares called Lagos Square. You can talk about the sounds of Black English words like Mumbo Jumbo, Goofer Dust, and Mojo, and half the dictionaries witll say "unknown origin" and the rest will say, "That sounds Swahili" or "it's a nonsense syllable." But when lots of DNA samples are taken and mapped, then the scholars start falling over each other to be the first out the box with the "revisions" Eoghan's talking about. Oh, i love it. I am sitting here listening to Jelly Roll Morton's "New Orleans Blues" piano solo, recorded for the Library of Congress, and just grinning from ear to ear. Us autodidacts are soooo cranky! --cat)

[rootwork]

> > Jeff...Please could you tell why you came to these conclusions? I am also
> > interested in knowing the resources you are founding your statements on. I too
> > have an interest in that area of study in the Virginia and North Carolina
> > areas and this is a subject I would like to know more about.
> > Thanks.
> > Orva #462

Orva,

As I mentioned to Lee, there are quite a few books and articles out
there. The problem is that they can be hard to come by except on
university campuses. Michael Gomez's Exchanging Our Country Marks
is a good synthesis of the impact different African groups had in
the various parts of the United States. Basically, the
ethnic/cultural makeup differed considerably depending on where you
looked during the colonial period, though there were probably more
West Central Africans than any other single group. Gomez briefly
describes different areas of African origin and then traces how they
impacted particular regions. To summarize his book, he stresses
West African (especially Senegambian) influences in Louisiana, West
Central African and Islamic influences in Georgia and South
Carolina, and Biafran (especially Igbo) influences in Virginia. My
thoughts on the other areas are mainly based on general migration
patterns in the colonial and antebellum South. There are plenty of
other good things out there, many of which are listed in the notes
of Gomez's book, but his is more readable than most and is concise.

Jeff

[rootwork]

Eoghan,

I agree with you that the databases being used these days are
altering the picture of African ethnicities in the Americas. There
are gaps in them, but I think they are accurate enough to make
pretty good judgements on African ethnicities. The reason I keep
bringing up the fact that other groups besides West Central Africans
made notable contributions is not just to be argumentative, but that
I think it is important to remember that when it comes down to
creating an African American identity, many different peoples were
involved. I guess it is the historian in me that likes to keep the
nuance there. Thus, I think it is important to stress that Kongos
did not dominate everywhere in the U.S. and that in those places
where they were numerous, they did not dominate at all times.

I am in complete agreement with you about the Kongo influence in
Georgia and South Carolina, which later spread across much of the
Lower South. In both places, the West Central African presence was
not only numerically large, but it was early. On the other hand, I
don't see the same pattern in Virginia, and to a lesser extent in
Louisiana or North Carolina. In Louisiana, the Kongos were
plentiful late in the colonial period, but almost entirely absent
for the first two generations of slave life there. Thus, there was
an established culture in the area, to which the West Central
Africans were newcomers. They certainly left a very strong mark,
but so did the foundational Senegambian culture, which was not
erased by the Kongo presence. Virginia, and Maryland as well, had a
comparatively small Kongo presence, which is supported by the Tras-
Atlantic Slave Trade Database you mentioned. According to data
drawn from it, Biafrans (mainly Igbo) were by far the largest group,
followed by Senegambians (various Mande speakers, etc.) in second
place. A distant third were Africans from the Gold Coast (Asante,
etc.). West Central Africa comes in at fourth place. Other groups
with smaller showings were the stereotypical Yoruba, Fon, and the
like from the Bight of Benin, East Africans, and those from Sierra
Leone. North Carolina I already explained.

I do want to acknowledge, though, that I was incorrect in saying
that the Igbo were a majority in an earlier post. The database has
helped revise the number down to a pluratity, as I found when I
checked on it.

Our different backgrounds are probably what leads to our fairly
frequent but cordial and respectful disagreements. As I have
mentioned before, I really do not have a particular desire to see
the Senegambian or Biafran regions triumph over the Kongo or
anything like that. Nor am I stuck reading books published in the
1930s, which focused on the Yoruba and Fon. I think you are
probably correct in arguing that West Central Africans were the
single most important group, though the scholarly jury is still
out. I do, however, favor a more complex model of African American
history that stresses the contributions of regional clusters of
African ethnicities, which the publication of the Trans-Atlantic
Slave Trade Database and others like it supports.

By the way, I'm not sure if you've seen it yet, but there is a
fairly new book out by Gwendolyn Midlo Hall that looks at the
disputes arising out of the publication of these databases and the
need to modify older interpretations of African ethnicity. It is
not the easiest read, but it is interesting. She stresses the need
for increased focus on West Central Africa, among other things.

Jeff

[Etudiant Ancetres]

>(P.S., for those who have not a clue as to what i am talking about, it's this simple: if >folks look like people who are still living in the Congo, then it is a legical bet that their >ancestors came from the Congo, but you can't "prove" it to hidebound scholars who >are convinced that their ancestors came from Nigeria or Benin...--cat)

(Hi y'all,

What y'all haven't yet mentioned in regards to the dominant Congo influences in American history are the first Africans who were excavated at the African burial grounds in NYC. I don't remember all the names, but one of them was named Simon CONGO! As for African influences in Louisanna it may be that Louisanna has a strong Senegambian influence, but the Congo influence isn't minimized in any way especially when you consider The African Hut built on Melrose plantation. That plantation was inhabited and owned by the Metoyer family. They were Creoles of African/French blood who sold their own people. The African Hut is famous and was built in the style of Congo/Bantu groups in Central Africa. If you don't believe me Jeff then look at this website: http://www.caneriverheritage.org/main_f ... .php--Marc)

[Quimbisero]

And my point has never been to suggest that the Kongo were the only
African people in North America, nor even at all times or all places
the dominant one. That being said, over the longue dure it seems
evident that they were far more influential culturally than any other
single group.

Eoghan

[rootwork]

Hello, all --

I tried to post a pretty lengthy response, but I am not sure that it
went through. Thus, let me summarize it just in case. I agree that
at least for the Lower South, West Central Africa is the first place
one should look to find the origins of various aspects of hoodoo and
African American culture in general. Historically, this has not
always been the case in some areas, such as Virginia. What I
recommend when trying to research any aspect of black life is to
look at the Kongo first. When you do not find a clear-cut answer,
though, avoid knee-jerk reactions. Do not try to force all aspects
of culture to fit into a theory of Kongo roots. Look elsewhere and
remain open-minded to other possibilities. Doing that will keep you
from becoming "hide bound."

Let me close by saying that I do not disagree with you just to be
disagreeable. Moreover, I think respectful discussion is a great
thing. I am constantly impressed by the level of knowledge
presented almost daily by members of this group. Cat, in
particular, astounds me with the scope of her knowledge and her
ability to recall it seemingly instantaneously. I simply fear that
some people might be inadvertantly led to make simplistic
conclusions about slavery and the slave trade, African ethnicities,
and the formation of African American culture.

By the way, thanks for the Melrose plantation and New York slave
graveyard references. I am already familiar with them, but I
appreciate the thought nonetheless.

Jeff

(And you, Jeff, are one of the folks whose high level of knowldge keeps this discourse interesting to me and to us all. I am very grateful for your participation in what might otherwise be more of a "spell of the week club," if you know wht i mean. --cat)

[Quimbisero]

--- In hrcourse@yahoogroups.com, "hoodoodoctor3" <jeffnlynn@...> wrote:

> > What I
> recommend when trying to research any aspect of black life is to
> look at the Kongo first. When you do not find a clear-cut answer,
> though, avoid knee-jerk reactions. Do not try to force all aspects
> of culture to fit into a theory of Kongo roots. Look elsewhere and
> remain open-minded to other possibilities. Doing that will keep you
> from becoming "hide bound."
>
> Let me close by saying that I do not disagree with you just to be
> disagreeable. Moreover, I think respectful discussion is a great
> thing. I am constantly impressed by the level of knowledge
> presented almost daily by members of this group. Cat, in
> particular, astounds me with the scope of her knowledge and her
> ability to recall it seemingly instantaneously. I simply fear that
> some people might be inadvertantly led to make simplistic
> conclusions about slavery and the slave trade, African ethnicities,
> and the formation of African American culture.
>

Jeff,

I concur on those points. I would like to clarify however, that far
from being "hide bound" my active stance on forefronting the Kongo in
relation to these issues is a corrective both for the oversight in
scholarship until recently and to those who have constructed
conceptions of African American origins that bear little resemblance
to either older views of slave origins or more up to date ones.

One point on which I sound a warning bell is in taking too much stock
in the results of the popularly available DNA testing. The science is
not yet where the commercial claims state it is, and they oversimplify
what the data mean as well as quite frankly, how meaningful they
really are. I've posted a couple of cautionary links and observations
before, and may do so again as I feel the subject is very misleading.

As for debate, debate is healthy. Although I rather treasure the
moments I get to play old grouch, I agree that there is no better way
to uncover truth than to question. I always look forward to your
comments and observations, Jeff. Being Irish, I love a good debate
anyway, and when the focus is on understanding a subject, there can be
no loosers. Besides, you don't strike me as the disagreeable sort.

I agree, Cat can be absolutely amazing. I miss the days when we used
to get on the phone and talk for an hour. Schedules don't seem to
allow that these days. There is always something fascinating to learn
here and plenty of thought provoking observations. Along the way, I've
made a few good friends as well.

Eoghan

[rootwork]

--- In hrcourse@yahoogroups.com, "Quimbisero" <quimbisa@...> wrote:
> >
> And my point has never been to suggest that the Kongo were the only
> African people in North America, nor even at all times or all places
> the dominant one. That being said, over the longue dure it seems
> evident that they were far more influential culturally than any other
> single group.
>
> Eoghan
>

Eoghan,

I'm pretty much with you on that. I've been posting so much of this
kind of stuff because I want to make sure that people see where I am
coming from. I think that a few folks mistakenly believe I think that
West Central Africans were unimportant, which is far from the case.
Also, the formation of African American identity is extremely
fascinating to me, and I really get into the topic.

Jeff

[rootwork]

(And you, Jeff, are one of the folks whose high level of knowldge
keeps this discourse interesting to me and to us all. I am very
grateful for your participation in what might otherwise be more of
a "spell of the week club," if you know what i mean. --cat)

---

Thanks, Cat!

Jeff

[rootwork]

--- In hrcourse@yahoogroups.com, "Quimbisero" <quimbisa@...> wrote:
> >
> --- In hrcourse@yahoogroups.com, "hoodoodoctor3" <jeffnlynn@>
wrote:
> >
> > What I
> > recommend when trying to research any aspect of black life is to
> > look at the Kongo first. When you do not find a clear-cut
answer,
> > > though, avoid knee-jerk reactions. Do not try to force all
aspects
> > > of culture to fit into a theory of Kongo roots. Look elsewhere
and
> > > remain open-minded to other possibilities. Doing that will keep
you
> > > from becoming "hide bound."
> >
> > Let me close by saying that I do not disagree with you just to be
> > disagreeable. Moreover, I think respectful discussion is a great
> > thing. I am constantly impressed by the level of knowledge
> > presented almost daily by members of this group. Cat, in
> > particular, astounds me with the scope of her knowledge and her
> > ability to recall it seemingly instantaneously. I simply fear
that
> > > some people might be inadvertantly led to make simplistic
> > conclusions about slavery and the slave trade, African
ethnicities,
> > > and the formation of African American culture.
> >
>
> Jeff,
>
> I concur on those points. I would like to clarify however, that far
> from being "hide bound" my active stance on forefronting the Kongo
in
> > relation to these issues is a corrective both for the oversight in
> scholarship until recently and to those who have constructed
> conceptions of African American origins that bear little
resemblance
> > to either older views of slave origins or more up to date ones.
>
> One point on which I sound a warning bell is in taking too much
stock
> > in the results of the popularly available DNA testing. The science
is
> > not yet where the commercial claims state it is, and they
oversimplify
> > what the data mean as well as quite frankly, how meaningful they
> really are. I've posted a couple of cautionary links and
observations
> > before, and may do so again as I feel the subject is very
misleading.
> >
> As for debate, debate is healthy. Although I rather treasure the
> moments I get to play old grouch, I agree that there is no better
way
> > to uncover truth than to question. I always look forward to your
> comments and observations, Jeff. Being Irish, I love a good debate
> anyway, and when the focus is on understanding a subject, there
can be
> > no loosers. Besides, you don't strike me as the disagreeable sort.
>
> I agree, Cat can be absolutely amazing. I miss the days when we
used
> > to get on the phone and talk for an hour. Schedules don't seem to
> allow that these days. There is always something fascinating to
learn
> > here and plenty of thought provoking observations. Along the way,
I've
> > made a few good friends as well.
>
> Eoghan
>
Eoghan,

I assure you that I would definitely not think of you as "hide
bound." Since the first time you brought up the Kongo roots, I have
been on the lookout for both secondary and primary sources that
address the issue. It has been a very interesting topic for me.

Jeff

[ridge_girl1]

miss cat,

It has been suggested that hoodoo derives from the [still extant] Hausa word hu'du'ba, meaning "to exact retribution, stir up resentment."

Any thoughts?

Ann Wheeler
#1137

(Hausa is a minority language -- a tiny minority anguag) among the Africans brought to the USA as slaves, and other words in English that come from African usage are generally of other tribes and languages. That's the main thing that is most against that theory. --cat)

[ridge_girl1]

miss cat,

According to P.D. Curtin, "Atlantic Slave Trade" (www.AfricanAmericans.com), of the French and English slave traders having identifiable origin, 14.5% came from the Bight of Benin, and 25.1% from the Bight of Biafra, both part of what is now Nigeria (Niger and Nigeria being where Hausa is mostly spoken). 39.6% doesn't seem like a tiny minority. ?

Ann Wheeler
#1137

(We're talking apples and oranges here. You are talking about the origination ports from which French and English slave trader ships set sail; i am talking about the origin points of the captive people who were onboard those ships. Obviously no ships set sail from inland Africa, yet people from non-coastal areas were captured, taken to the West coast of Africa, and put aboard slave ships. Most of the loan-words we have in American English that can be traced back to African languages seem to be from Bantu / Kongo languages. I wish dear old Dr. Eoghan Ballard were here to give you more information, but he never did his homework, then became an inactive student, and thus no longer posts here. I miss him and hope he will someday return here! In the meantime, try reading "Flash of the Spirit" by Robert Ferris Thompson. --cat)

[Susan Diamond]

Greetings all!
I've been listening to the Lucky Mojo radio shows of the past and you can still capture some of Dr. Eoghan Ballard's wisdom on those shows. I am not certain that any specifically address this issue but he gives a pretty extensive history and he's real easy to listen to!

Many Blessings,
Susan Diamond (#1184)
www.serpentskiss.biz

(That's so true -- Eoghan's two shows on Congo Magic History are available via the podcasts. Go to
http://www.luckymojo.com/radioshow.html
and click on the link that'll take you to where you can browse and buy. --cat)

[catherineyronwode]

These are links to general information on Hoodoo. Read these to obtain some basic knowledge of African American folk magic.

Hoodoo History:
http://luckymojo.com/hoodoohistory.html

Hoodoo and Religion:
http://luckymojo.com/hoodooandreligion.html

Is Magic Real? Does Magic Really Work?
http://www.luckymojo.com/spells/real.html

How to Use Anointing Oils:
http://luckymojo.com/oils.html

How to Use Baths:
http://luckymojo.com/baths.html

How to Use Sachet Powders:
http://luckymojo.com/powders.html

How to Use Incense:
http://luckymojo.com/incense.html

How to Use Candles:
http://luckymojo.com/candlemagic.html

How to Use Herbs and Roots:
http://herb-magic.com

Foot-Track and Foot-Print Spells
http://luckymojo.com/foottrack.html

Freezer Spells
http://luckymojo.com/freezer.html

Sweetening Spells
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[bubba]

Sometimes a Practitioner or healer may tell of u of a honey jar, or evil jar, or magic done against u which maybe buried or in such a place which u cant get to.

In that case what would one do to destroy the effects of this 'unreachable' item which is sending u harm. Would that mean that as long as that harmful item remains thus even if u cleanse and protect that still u will get negative effects from it?

I have heard of magic being buried in trees and Graveyards against people. Unless you're spiritually fifted to be able to see where the items are, how could u destroy its effects permanantly if u cant get to it?

Thank u.

Sophy

[Mac_2]

Hi Bubba / Sophy,

As I understand it, when the source of a jinx can’t be found, the afflicted person first performs a series of cleansing spiritual baths. Then the person does an uncrossing spell, or has someone else perform an uncrossing on his or her behalf. (Some people prefer to do a reversing spell here instead.) Finally, the person makes or acquires a protection mojo that can be carried with him or her to ward off future problems.

More information about uncrossing baths and spells can be found at http://www.luckymojo.com/uncrossing.html, and the last paragraph before the “Spiritual Baths” section deals specifically with cases where the source of the problem can’t be located. There is a range of protective items that might go into a mojo bag; http://www.luckymojo.com/protectionspells.html is a good place to start reading about that topic in general.

Please note that I am fairly new to hoodoo myself, so you may want to get confirmation from another practitioner about this process.

Mac

[Literarylioness]

Well, I would get a reading to find out who has crossed me. Finding the person, or persons who has crossed you is as good as finding the items. Once you find out who is against you, you can protect yourself and act accordingly. If you don't know who has cursed you, you are working in the dark so to speak.

As far as objects are concerned, it really depends on how one is cursed. There are generational curses and that does take a lot of work to overcome, but those are rare. Most people curse others due to something personal.

I got to be honest, most of the people I have encountered, who were cursed, deserved the curse he or she got. If you steal someone's husband, wife, property, ideas, or what not, you run the risk of being cursed. Now I have been cursed for some pretty stupid things and fighting those curses were actually pretty easy. I just sent everything back on the person who cursed me.

The objects buried are not as important as who has done the cursing and why.

Mary

[catherineyronwode]

Just a side-note to this discussion:

Bubba asked about "a honey jar, or evil jar, or magic done against u" -- but a honey jar will never be evil or harmful or done "against" anyone, so don't worry about those. Honey Jar spells are employed to make people sweet, likeable, and loved. You can read more about Honey Jars on this page from "Hoodoo in Theory and Practice":

http://luckymojo.com/honeyjar.html

Perhaps what was meant was a leaking or upside down Bottle Spell. Those definitely can be used for enemy work. You can see an example of a leaking bottle on the "Hoodoo in Theory and Practice" web page on Bottle Spells. It is here:

http://www.luckymojo.com/bottlespells.html

As for evil spell work that is buried, i agree with Mary that a divination should be performed first, and i also agree with both Mary and Mac that if the divination indicates that such work has been done, you next proceed to Uncrossing spells and/or Protection work, including the use of a protective talisman of some sort. The next stage, if relief is still not found, or if the divination indicates it from the get-go, is to do a Reversing spell, to send the work back to the one who sent it.

Old, buried tricks are sometimes difficult to dislodge and undo, but they are not impossible to be rid of, generally speaking. Of course, we all know a few horror stories about some such old, buried curse that kept coming back ... i'll admit to knowing a few such tales myself ... but with firm intentions and strong work, they can be reversed, which is pretty much the only way to take them off if simple uncrossing and protection do not prove to be strong enough. In such cases, one would almost invariably have to hire a professional root doctor to help. This sort of work would not likely be performed for oneself.

[kevin9]

Okay, I've searched this, and I don't ever remember reading anything about this anywhere. A friend of mine who's a curandera says that they don't do spells, limpias, or readings if it's stormy or raining. I'm part Choctaw, and in the old days, Choctaws wouldn't have important meetings or make important decisions if it were raining or even just completely cloudy and overcast. Does anyone know if this is the case in hoodoo? I don't remember hearing about it anywhere. The other night there was a storm and I was itching to do some conjure, but then I began to wonder if I should or not. Any takers?

[Turnsteel]

I have personally never heard of this in conjure. Do what feels right to you.

[Literarylioness]

Never heard of anything about casting spells, but rain collected from a thunderstorm is quite powerful in hexing someone.

Mary

[catherineyronwode]

Each culture has different traditions. We teach and practice African American based conjure, not Mexican curandismo or Choctaw medicine, and, as Hail Discordia and Mary said, we don't have that belief, as is not in our particular cultural repertoire. But Mary is right in that we use storm water -- and also the wood from lightning-struck trees -- for powerful purposes.

[jwmcclin]

Are there any love spells that can be done with foot tracks?

[starsinthesky7]

Hmmm...I think I have heard of an idea where you can sprinkle some sachet powder such as love me, come to me, follow me boy/girl, etc in their shoes.

[Lukianos]

Hi jwmcclin,

Are there any love spells that can be done with foot trap?

Collected foot-tracks may be used as a personal concern of the person who made them, and as such, they may be used in any love spell calling for personal concerns. In such cases, foot-tracks are generally considered to be less personal than, say, blood or hair, but more representative of the person than a photograph or a sample of their hand-writing.

[fausto]

What are some herbs/minerals that anyone - not just professional workers, but anyone who practices hoodoo - should have on hand? Which are the most commonly used?

[Turnsteel]

* Lodestone/s and
* Magnetic sand
* Salt
* Angelica Root

All three of the John roots
* High John the Conqueror
* Little John to Chew / Court Case Root
* Dixie John (Southern John

Thats a very basic list but it covers a lot.

[Chagrinedgirl]

I keep some
* hyssop or
* 13 Herb Bath for cleansing, and
* Florida Water to wipe down candles, new candleholders and altar tools, etc.

[Miss Bri]

Hi there,

I would add to the above lists:

* Lemongrass
* Five Finger Grass
* Sage
* Solomon's Seal Root
* Deer's Tongue Leaf
* Cinnamon
* Cumin
* Black Pepper
* Red Pepper
* Honey
* Alum
* Sulphur

[Mandy]

Do I have to actually see a foot print in the dirt to spoon up some dirt for foot track magic or can I simply scoop up some dirt that I know a person has stepped on and signify that it's their foot track?

[rickets]

Second one, one that signifies. I usually just put down powdered roots mixed with baking powder that would "command" them and they walk over it.

[cabriellenil]

What about if I can get access to a shoe the person has worn. Does it count if I 'scrap' the dirt off the sole of the shoe?

[Turnsteel]

What about if I can get access to a shoe the person has worn. Does it count if I 'scrap' the dirt off the sole of the shoe?

Yes. Shoes are very very useful and shoe scarping are very good to have lol.

[Mandy]

Thank you for your reply, Rickets, but I think my question may not have been clearly stated. What I mean is, in the instance when I would be scraping up a foot track to use in a magical working, not laying a powder, must it be a visible foot print or may I just take some of the dirt from where they walk every day? Such as the dirt right beside where the person parks their car daily?

[LeBaptiste]

It is best to have their footprint. If you don't know which one is theirs or there are many prints in the dirt...look at what kind of shoes they wear and find that track in the dirt.

[Miss Bri]

Do I have to actually see a foot print in the dirt to spoon up some dirt for foot track magic or can I simply scoop up some dirt that I know a person has stepped on and signify that it's their foot track?

It depends on the spell that you are doing, but there are many spells that call you to collect the foot track in a specific manner--back to front or front to back in which case you need the shoe/foot print.

good luck,
Bri

[Mandy]

It depends on the spell that you are doing, but there are many spells that call you to collect the foot track in a specific manner--back to front or front to back in which case you need the shoe/foot print.

good luck,
Bri

OIC!!! Thanks, Bri! That makes it pretty clear.

[suzyparker]

Here's an odd question but I didn't see it on the forum.

Since there are so many different approaches to hoodoo, how does on decide what to use?

Do you do a spell, a honey jar, a fixed vigil candle, a mojo bag??? I personally have UNBELIEVABLE success with the LM candles.. but I ordered a mojo bag and that was successful too.

Just wondering how you all decide what to use for whatever you are trying to accomplish!!

My questions:

1) Do you go with your gut or get a reading?

2) is one form more gentler than another?
Thanks

[Turnsteel]

It comes down to both personal preference and what divination has revealed to be the right way, I think. Many people seek out readers to get answers to this kind of question

It also comes to what is traditionally considered proper for a situation, for example you wouldn't do a house cleansing with just a candle or a mojo hand.

[robynrawr]

I agree with HailDiscorida.

As far as my experience goes, I try to choose the spell that is the most appropriate. For most maical spells, the oldest and most traditional spells contain aspects of physical contact, like dressing a letter or sprinkling powders so that they will come into contact with your target. Spells like those are most desired and strong, but they isn't always possible to carry out.

If you are hiring a rootworker, then you should be aware that different workers are also more skilled at one thing than another. Where one worker might construct a doll baby for a case, another might make a mojo hand. In such a case, what is done depends on the worker's gifts and skills.

[mmcpower]

Ok so I have a question, on some spells I know you are suppose to put things under the bed but my question is can you put things between the mattress and box springs instead? I have cat's and it's hard to keep them from certain things as they are very curious?

Feed back would be great Thanks all

[NotDorianGray]

What you really want to do is to grab an ammo box from a military surplus store. I can assure you that they're completely cat-proof, and long and flat and perfect for fitting under beds.

[Miss Bri]

Ok so I have a question, on some spells I know you are suppose to put things under the bed but my question is can you put things between the mattress and box springs instead? I have cat's and it's hard to keep them from certain things as they are very curious?

Feed back would be great Thanks all

I don't know what particular spell you are talking about here, but in some cases you want the things under your bed but in an open container, variants of Jewish bowl spells, so a box would not do. In those cases between the mattress and box spring can be an adequate alternative. If there is blood or body fluids of any kind involved then the cat might go after it no matter what kind of container its in

good luck,
Bri

[Turnsteel]

Yes, you can place things between the mattress and box spring.

[mmcpower]

Thanks - I appreciate all your help as always.

[FLIGHTY1]

Hello! I would like to know more about dual casting and tandem casting. Miss cat spoke briefly of it in a reply to someone.

[catherineyronwode]

Tandem or dual casting are modern terms that describe a situation when two people perform work at the same time for the same cause. The more traditional name for it is "backing up the work" -- but backing up the work can actually take two forms, one of which is NOT covered by the use of the modern terms tandem casting or dual casting:

1) You can have a second person, generally a professional root doctor, backing your work up with his or her work. For example, when you go in for a job interview, the rootworker can be at his or her home, backing up the work you are doing in the interview.

2) You can cast two spells yourself. For example, when you go in for a job interview, you can leave a vigil candle burning on its own at home, backing up the work you are doing in the interview.

Backing up the work or tandem or dual casting can be performed for any type of spell, not just job-getting, of course.

[FLIGHTY1]

Does that means that they are more powerful than just a regular spell?

thanks flighty1

[NotDorianGray]

Yes, it is more powerful, as two people are focusing their energy and intent on the one cause.

The two parties may both be rootworkers or other experienced practitioners. Alternatively one may be a practiced worker and the other may be someone inexperienced who is being coached and given certain rituals or works to perform. For instance, in a love spell, a woman may consult a rootworker, who gives her a certain set of guidelines to follow, eg creating a honey jar. The rootworker may then back this up by setting lights, creating a jar of their own, or otherwise strengthening the work.

I'm not sure there has been another thread on tandem casting. Congratulations, this is it.

I would like to invite one of the members of this forum who does client work to comment further: I do some tandem casting work with friends, but am less experienced than a lot of you others and I too would appreciate your input.

[FLIGHTY1]

Thanks a million NDG

[detached]

hello 2 every1, i wanna kno wat r sum of the oils/powders/candles, etc., that u consider a MUST HAVE. when i ask this, i mean like stuff u use everyday, whether it's on urself or in ur house.

[thelightfantastic]

I've read numerous times that
* Special Oil No. 20 and
* white candles
are good things to always have on hand because both can be used for just about anything.

Other must haves would be
* hyssop herbs and
* a sage bundle for cleansing which is very important.

I think "must haves" really depends on what kind of work one focuses on.

[Turnsteel]

For me,
* Van Van oil,
* High John root, oil,and powder,
* red flannel bags,
* Chinese wash (much more traditional than smoking with sage),
* Crossing oil,
* Uncrossing oil, powder, bath crystals, and incense,
* Fast Luck oil,
* 7-11 Holy Oil,
* Queen Elisabeth root and oil,
* Angelica root,
* Sampson Snake root,
* deers tongue,
* tobacco,
* Low John,
* Lodestones in different sizes, a few matched sets,
* Magnetic sand.
* White, green, red, black, purple, and blue candles in different shapes and sizes,
* a pencil and
* brown paper torn from a paper bag.

That's just what I can think of off the top of my head.