Cartomancy Tarot Playing Cards Oracle Deck Lenormand Loteria Card Divination Questions and Answers

Unread post by **cognitivedissonance** » Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:16 am

After a lifetime of blockages with tarot, I picked up a Lenormand deck and immediately got relevant information. The X + Y + (Modifier) system is SO conducive to my weird analytical INTP brain. My favorite response to “How will Donald Trump’s presidency end?” was “Man + Birds + Whip”, which I took to mean “He will be hoisted by his Tweet pitard.”

Recommended!

Unread post by **Miss Athena** » Sun Jan 13, 2019 11:44 am

LOL!

I am a massive fan of Lenormand as it fits most intuitively into my style of reading. Glad to see you enjoying it too.

As for your Trump question, I read that as his anxiety over negative feedback...he's going to implode from his own narcissism.

LostInThought · Unread post by **LostInThought** » Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:34 am

Hi,

I was just wondering whether your emotional state when reading tarot can make a difference? I'm new to this but have found that the cards are usually pretty accurate and easy to interpret. However today, in an emotional state, after some bad news, I picked up my cards and they were all really negative. My immediate thought was to trust them since they've not been wrong so far but then I remembered reading about how some people have issues with pendulums telling them what they want to hear. Could the cards perhaps not have been telling me what I want to hear, but what my fears are? If so, how do you differentiate? Could it mean that previously, when I've drawn very positive cards, it's also because of my positive state of mind?

Unread post by **Dr Darensbourg** » Mon Jan 21, 2019 1:05 pm

LostInThought,

Reading for ones self presents a challenge, if not proves nearly impossible, for just about every reader I've ever known..

Reading in an emotional state is one of a few different ways one to get questionable results. Some times we just want to hear what we want to hear and eho gets in the way. If we have not trained ourselves to read ourselves objectively then confirmation bias creeps in or somewhere in our hearts we know that the results we received just can't be right and obsession activates. We begin to pull and pull or do spread after spread until we get something we like.

It's not impossible and there are those who do it successfully. Try anointing your third eye region with clarity oil the next time you attempt and also try to get out of "self"

LostInThought · Unread post by **LostInThought** » Tue Jan 22, 2019 12:50 pm

Thanks but could the actual cards which come out be affected by someones emotional state? Like with a pendulum, you may want the answer to be 'yes' so badly that it says yes anyway. Could you potentially draw a spread of negative cards because you are feeling so negative?

Unread post by **Dr Darensbourg** » Tue Jan 22, 2019 2:24 pm

In my experience what you described only occurs when using the tarot for self-assesment in which case it would be a psychological phenomenon. I have never heard of this happening nor experienced it, when using the tarot for divination.

You know what they say, "the cards never lie". The cards are telling you exactly what you need to know. In such an emotional state, however, that can be very hard to decipher.

Sleepwalkeravocado · Unread post by **Sleepwalkeravocado** » Thu Feb 21, 2019 8:10 pm

Today I ask a online tarot reading of my ex was coming back and I got this I have no idea what it means if it a yes or no and also I like to ask the cards to see , please if anyone can help me figure this out, here are my cards I got in order to the question will we be together again!

Past : Hermit
Present: Ace of swords
Future: 8 of cups
What to expect: 6 of pentacles
Influence: 5 of swords
Hopes: Ace of pentacles
Outcome: 3 of cups

Unread post by **Miss Athena** » Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:21 pm

Hi Sleepwalkeravocado,

I'm sorry but we do not do free card readings on the forum. If you want a better interpretation of your cards, you can schedule a reading with a qualified reader from the following links:
www.readersandrootworkers.org/
www.hoodoopsychics.com

Also, please do not start new topics on the forum. I have moved your post to the correct discussion area on tarot reading.

Good luck.

Tarot of the Witches by Fergus Hall

Commissioned for the James Bond film "Live and Let Die" in 1974, this deck features the colourful surrealist art of Fergus Hall, 78 cards, 2 3/4" x 4 3/4", instruction booklet included.

DIV-TAR-WIFH
Tarot of the Witches by Fergus Hall
$16.00

You can order right here in the Forum by clicking on the blue Add To Cart button.

For more information, see:
http://www.luckymojo.com/cartomancy.html#witches

ianbryanttarot · Unread post by **ianbryanttarot** » Fri Mar 29, 2019 10:57 am

Greetings.

I come from a primarily Judeo-Christian background, a practitioner of Christian magic rooted in early Egyptian-Coptic practices of the 1st to 5th centuries. My tarot and cartomancy experience is also rooted there but I am drawn to traditional American rootwork-conjure as well. I wanted to ask of the rootwork-conjure practitioners here what decks you favor in your practice? I have seen everything from standard Bicycle playing cards decks modified with symbols drawn upon them to modern painted tarot such as The Hoodoo Queen Conjure Tarot.

I'd love to hear from you what decks you favor and why.

Of all my own decks I currently favor:

Haindl Tarot - For its combination of Kabbalah, Rune, Astrology and Native American traditions
Motherpeace Tarot and Shining Tribe Tarot - For their celebration of women, the Goddess and tribal traditions
Jean Noblet Tarot de Marseille - For its ancient imagery and tradition of use in magic

Unread post by **catherineyronwode** » Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:41 pm

I use the Rider Waite Smith tarot and have done so since 1965.

For a while i used the RWS-derived Aquarian Tarot and Morgan-Greer Tarot, but i reverted to the RWS because it contains more symbolism per square inch, and i use the symbolism in talking to clients.

If you want to hear how i read the RWS tarot -- and how my co-host, ConjureMan Ali reads it -- just tune into our weekly live Hoodoo Rootwork Hour or listen in the archives to past shows.

Here's a cool tart deck in a tin:

Inversion Tarot In A Tin, art by Jody Boginski Barbessi

Use in Magic:
The tarot or tarocchi deck is the most popular system of playing card divination in America. The illustrated faces of the cards help make memorization of the card meaning for the reader and understandable to the sitter.

Spell Methods:
Tarot cards can be used in spells of magic by treating them as the basis for petition papers that relate to the specific situations they depict or as personal links to the particular people they represent.

Product Details:
Inversion Tarot, with art by Jody Boginski Barbessi is based on and inspired by the mid-century artwork originally created in 1960 by Paul Mathison. This deck follows the ancient Marseille tarot tradition. The updated images have been inverted and refined with interesting new details and decorative elements brought into focus for a striking, contemporary deck. The pocket-sized deck includes 78 black and white cards and 64-page booklet in a handy tin. Booklet includes instructions for two tarot spreads.

DIV-TAR-INVE
Inversion Tarot In A Tin, art by Jody Boginski Barbessi
$19.95

You can order right here in the Forum by clicking on the blue Add To Cart button.

ianbryanttarot · Unread post by **ianbryanttarot** » Fri Mar 29, 2019 3:28 pm

Thanks @catherineyronwode for your input. That's an excellent idea listening to the show. RWS is definitely a standard and I also used it more when I was younger, but over the years I've felt some distance grow as I am not part of the same magical heritage, the Golden Dawn. Decks with more diverse imagery that include folk magic, hoodoo and tribal traditions.

Unread post by **Nejo** » Sat Apr 27, 2019 8:02 pm

Hello, Do you have to have several tarot card decks for people to choose from? Or can you have just one deck you use to read for all people?

Unread post by **catherineyronwode** » Sat Apr 27, 2019 8:47 pm

Hello, Nejo --

Most people use one deck, some always use two decks at the same time, and some switch them up depending on what kind of artwork attracts them at any given time. There are also deck collectors who may have doens of tarot decks, not always for reading, but just for their beauty and rarity.

We carry quite a few tarot decks in our shop, as well as lenormand decks, oracle cards, and regular playing cards. The most popular is the Rider-Waite-Smith tarot.

You can choose among them here:
http://www.luckymojo.com/mojocatdivination.html#tarot

And here is one of my favourite fun tarot decks, just right for Halloween:

Halloween Tarot by Kipling West

Use in Magic:
The tarot or tarocchi deck is the most popular system of playing card divination in America. The illustrated faces of the cards help make memorization of the card meaning for the reader and understandable to the sitter.

Spell Methods:
Tarot cards can be used in spells of magic by treating them as the basis for petition papers that relate to the specific situations they depict or as personal links to the particular people they represent.

Product Details:
A delightful set of card in which the suits are represented by tarot imagery; cheerful, bright, and with a post-modern vintage look. The perfect gift for a friend at Halloween.

DIV-TAR-HALL
Halloween Tarot by Kipling West
$21.95

You can order right here in the Forum by clicking on the blue Add To Cart button.

For more information, see:
http://www.luckymojo.com/cartomancy.html#tarot

Unread post by **GeminiMoon** » Thu Jun 06, 2019 12:32 am

I recently felt called to card reading and was intuitively led to playing cards instead of tarot cards. I’d like to know a great resource for learning and growing as everything I’ve found so far is very inconsistent and confusing.

Unread post by **Miss Athena** » Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:09 pm

Hello GeminiMoon,

Lucky Mojo carries an extensive library of divination books, including the use of playing cards, so please read through them here and find something that speaks to you:
http://www.luckymojo.com/mojocatbooks.html#divination

Good luck in learning the cards! I wish you much success.

Unread post by **GeminiMoon** » Mon Jun 10, 2019 4:56 am

Thank you.

Unread post by **catherineyronwode** » Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:06 am

GeminiMoon,

Welcome to the Lucky Mojo Forum.

I think this book will open your world:

BOO-DIV-ADOS
A Deck of Spells by Charles Porterfield
$12.00

You can order right here in the Forum by clicking on the blue Add To Cart button.

It contains several reading methods with cards, plus a way to use the cards in spell-casting.

stelz · Unread post by **stelz** » Thu Jun 27, 2019 3:40 pm

A more conventional interpretation would be that Birds are hectic and gossipy - he constantly keeps up a barrage of lies, and Whips show conflict and punishment because of that. It really looks like he steps on the wrong toes. And yes - it all adds up to the same thing.

Your reading table to God's ears!

Unread post by **JayDee** » Thu Jun 27, 2019 4:20 pm

The new Red Folder has a lot of great information on reading cards including the Lenormand cards and how to use them in spell work. Highly recommended if you like this deck as a divination tool and also to conduct rootwork.

Red Folder: http://www.luckymojo.com/theredfolder.html

Unread post by **catherineyronwode** » Thu Oct 31, 2019 4:20 pm

BOO-SPE-DIVI
Assortment of Divination Techniques, Set of 10
$105.00

You can order right here in the Forum by clicking on the blue Add To Cart button.

For more information, see:
http://luckymojo.com/publishing.html
ASSORTMENT OF DIVINATION TECHNIQUES
by Various Authors

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by Various Authors

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In this ten-volume set -- a total of 960 pages! -- you will learn the history, methods, and techniques of psychic reading and divination with bones, coins, crystals, stones, numbers, cards, and observation of physical traits, and you will also receive a career-building manual on how to set up your own professional psychic reading practice. These ten books regularly sell for $9.00 each (a total of $90.00). Pay only $8.00 each when you buy all ten as a package deal -- a total of only $80.00 (a savings of $10.00). Order "The Psychic Readers' Fortune-Telling and Divination Special" and you will receive one copy each of these 96-page books:

• Throwing the Bones by catherine yronwode
• Bones, Shells, and Curios by Michele Jackson
• Crystal Magic by Jon Saint Germain
• Lithomancy by Rev. Dr. Jon Saint Germain
• A Deck of Spells by Professor C. D. Porterfield
• Vulvamancy by Dr. Jeremy Weiss
• The Stranger in the Cup by Gregory Lee White and Catherine Yronwode
• The Secret of Numbers Revealed by catherine yronwode, Dr. Roy Page Walton,
Lewis de Claremont, Godfrey Spencer, and Frank Householder
• Secrets of the Crystal Silence League by Claude Alexander Conlin,
edited, annotated, restored, and revised by catherine yronwode and Deacon Millett
• The Fortune Teller's Guide to Success by Valentina Burton

Product Details:
Format: Ten 96 page books (960 pages), trade paperbacks, illustrated
Publisher: LMCCo and MISC
Publication dates: 2013-2020
ISBNs: Various
Tagged: Divination, Spells and Magic, Specials

Unread post by **catherineyronwode** » Fri Nov 22, 2019 3:15 pm

It's Facebook Fridays! for November 22, 2019, and we want you to benefit from the well of deep occult knowledge with the Professor Porterfield Package!

The Lucky Mojo Curio Company is holding a random drawing to give away 2 edifying and enlightening spiritual supply prizes featuring the works of Professor Charles Porterfield. This week each lucky winner will receive copies of "A Deck of Spells: Hoodoo Playing Card Magic in Rootwork and Conjure," including the origins of playing cards and how to use them in your magical work with more than 100 spells, charms, and authentic old-time divination methods; "The Sporting Life: How to Help Yourself with Hoodoo from the Streets to the Sheets," about the clandestine milieu of underworld beliefs and secret practices in the demimonde of prostitutes, pimps, madams, gamblers, bootleggers, and drag queens; and, "Hoodoo Bible Magic: Sacred Secrets of Scriptural Sorcery," co-authored by Miss Michaele and Professor Porterfield, on practical, honest, and straightforward Christian conjuration with the Holy Scriptures.

All you have to do to enter is to post a comment to the contest announcement on the Lucky Mojo Facebook page, Facebook Fridays! status message.

http://www.facebook.com/LuckyMojoCurio

First thing tomorrow morning, we will select TWO winners at random, announce their names here, and ask them to message the Lucky Mojo Facebook Page with their mailing addresses, so we can send them their FREE Professor Charles Porterfield products.

lev526282 · Unread post by **lev526282** » Sun Dec 22, 2019 9:52 am

Where to find out the correct interpretation of the cards? I

Unread post by **catherineyronwode** » Sun Dec 22, 2019 11:44 am

Hello, lev526282, and welcome to the Lucky Mojo Forum!

I noticed that you are posting all the way from Kyiv, Ukraine. I hope things are going well there -- you folks have been in the news here quite a lot lately!

You tried to include a link to another site in your post, so i deleted it, because this site, The Lucky Mojo forum, is for our customers to inquire about how to use our products and the goods we well in the practice of folk magic.

There are as many ways to interpret the tarot cards as there are playing cards. Most decks come with their own "Little White Book," in which the interpretations are given according to the beliefs and theories of the author and artist of that deck -- and they very greatly!

If you are looking for a book with an over-arching approach to several decks, i recommend

* The Pictorial Key to the Tarot" by Arthur Edward Waite
* Classic Tarot Spreads by Sandor Konraad
* Introduction to Tarot by Susan Levitt
* Simple Fortune Telling with Tarot Cards by Corrine Kenner
* Simply Tarot by Leanna Greenaway
* The Ultimate Guide to the Rider Waite Tarot by Fiebig and Burger

There are other, older and out-of-print books -- like The Complete Guide to the Tarot by Eden Gray (1982) -- that can be found via used book stores online.

Visconti Tarot, Metallic Embossing

A beautiful replica of the most famed of the old Renaissance Italian decks, with gold foil stamping; art restoration by A. A. Atyanassov. 78 cards, 2 1/2" x 4 1/2", instruction booklet included.

DIV-TAR-VISC
Visconti Tarot, Metallic Embossing
$25.00

You can order right here in the Forum by clicking on the blue Add To Cart button.

For more information, see:
http://www.luckymojo.com/cartomancy.html#visconti
If you want to hear how i read the Rider-Waite-Smith tarot -- and how my co-host, ConjureMan Ali reads it -- just tune into our weekly live Hoodoo Rootwork Hour or listen in the archives to past shows.

Good luck to you!

HappinessRules · Unread post by **HappinessRules** » Tue Jan 07, 2020 10:22 pm

Hey as a reader was wondering are their any special entity that are known to help readers? Like saints, Deities etc? Also that are known to work well!

Unread post by **FreyaRose** » Wed Jan 08, 2020 3:35 pm

Hi HappinessRules,

Personally, I work with my spirit guides, including my ancestors when doing readings for people, with great success. I've also found it very helpful to work with Angelica Root on my reading table, to both call in helpful spirits, to get me in tune with my spiritual gifts, and to help protect me while I work:

https://www.luckymojo.com/angelica.html

YMMV, but that's what this reader uses. I don't work much with the saints, but Miss cat has compiled this helpful page showing which saint is the traditional patron of various conditions and occupations:

https://www.luckymojo.com/patronsaints.html

Saint Cyprus is noted to be the Patron Saint of Occultists. You can read more about him here:

https://www.luckymojo.com/saintcyprian.html

Good luck!

Siptah · Unread post by **Siptah** » Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:45 am

Hello,

I have been interested/using playing cards for divination for about four years now. I first learned and still study and use the method from The New World Witchery Guide to Cartomancy which is based upon The Witch of Poor Memory, an easy little poem to help you get started reading right away. It works well for me and is simple, just the way I like things. Both of these guides are found online.

Unread post by **FreyaRose** » Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:51 am

Hello Siptah,

In case you haven't picked it up yet, Professor Porterfield's book is also an excellent resource on cartomancy:

BOO-DIV-ADOS
A Deck of Spells by Charles Porterfield
$12.00

You can order right here in the Forum by clicking on the blue Add To Cart button.

landsgenesis2 · Unread post by **landsgenesis2** » Sat Feb 01, 2020 9:28 pm

Hello,

It appears this forum is in a constant state of change and reorganization. I like that. It means that things are stayed on top of and kept as current as possible. In this process however, if my memory isn't getting any worse than what it already was, there are threads which were once here that perhaps got merged, or redacted because of redundancy, whatever the case may be. But I seem to recall there being sections or two in different areas where a place for general questions could be posted. Perhaps there still are and this just isn't one of those threads.

I've placed my question here because simple yes/no cartomancy is the only form of divination I know, and as I've mentioned before, sometimes, reflected in my answers to questions is incongruence. It used to be the case that I could read for myself just fine. That devolved into only being able to read for others with the highest degree of accuracy, and now, it appears that my ability to read is stunted outright.

My questions about playing card cartomancy and divination [in general]

1. Could a loss of psychic divinatory powers be the result of unclean hands?

(i.e.)

1a) Having done negative work upon someone that you thought was justified at the time but turns out it wasn't?

1b) An accumulation of psychic debris (for lack of a better expression)?

1c) Not cleansing thoroughly with Psalm 51 and hyssop when something on the inside of you told you that you should have long ago?

2) More abstractly and out of pure curiosity, could it come from violating moral and spiritual law that a hyssop bath or ingestion of its tea can fix?

2a) Or, if there are any other self-purification methods [may I be told some of them or directed to where I can find them] that would resolve spiritual illness brought upon oneself by their own doing, and these things having not been done disrupted the flow between you and Spirit (if that's even possible).

3) Could crossed conditions interfere with one's ability to divine accurately?

If you find similar questions from me in other places, it's because I was asking in the context of specific situations and not in this broader sense seen here, because it didn't dawn on me that I should maybe have been asking higher questions that would explain things. I was asking from a bottom-up approach rather than a top-down one. And maybe this way I can get the answers I seek; that's not to say other answers haven't been helpful, so I only say this in a differential sense.

Again placed here because I "thought" there was a general questions thread at the top (my memory fails at times) that could have been removed, and because playing cards have been my only divination tool, whence the incongruence and gradual decline in readership is reflected.

Thanks

Unread post by **FreyaRose** » Tue Feb 04, 2020 1:56 pm

Hi landsgenesis2,

I do definitely think that spiritual gunk or build up can sometimes clog up your connection to spirit, and that a good cleansing should resolve the issue. Having negativity connected to you can make you feel off, sluggish, fuzzy-headed, etc, which all interfere with your intuition and divinatory abilities.

The only thing I'd advise other than cleansing with hyssop or something like the Van Van Bath Crystals, would be to remember to put up some kind of Protection afterward, to keep yourself from getting "dirty" again.

I like to wipe my body upward with Protection Oil after a cleansing bath, for example:

https://www.luckymojo.com/oil-protection.html

I hope this helps!

shaman369 · Unread post by **shaman369** » Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:10 am

General question about playing card divining.

1) What are some methods people start their card readings do you call up on a deity or guide to help you or do u dig right into the read?

2) I'm sure everyone has their methods of what and how the activate their cards.

3) Some days my card readings are scary accurate on point, then the other night I kept getting wrong answers on test questions and felt like answers were wrong. Any explanation?

4) Is it because of work being done against me or just an off day? Any ideas?

Unread post by **catherineyronwode** » Fri Feb 14, 2020 3:11 pm

shaman369 --

1) I simply center myself. I do not call up a deity or spirit guide. Close eyes, big breath in, release it, open eyes.

2) I do not "activate" my cards. I simply phrase my question.

3) I never perform "test questions." I do not know what you mean by "scary accurate." I strive to be accurate. I am not scared when i am accurate. I have been a professional card reader for 54 years. Some days i am stronger than other days. I read for clients all afternoon, i get into a groove and usually have a certain accuracy range.

4) I have had off days, especially if i have a cold, the flu, or a migraine. I have never experienced being cursed in a way that prevents me from reading cards.

Good luck.

Rider Waite Smith Tarot, English

Use in Magic:
The tarot or tarocchi deck is the most popular system of playing card divination in America. The illustrated faces of the cards help make memorization of the card meaning for the reader and understandable to the sitter.

Spell Methods:
Tarot cards can be used in spells of magic by treating them as the basis for petition papers that relate to the specific situations they depict or as personal links to the particular people they represent.

Product Details:
First published in 1910; art by Pamela Colman Smith under the direction of Arthur Edward Waite; the most popular Tarot deck. See also Waite's book, A Pictorial Key to the Tarot. 78 cards, 2 3/4" x 4 3/4", instruction booklet included.

DIV-TAR-RWSE
Rider Waite Smith Tarot, English
$21.95

You can order right here in the Forum by clicking on the blue Add To Cart button.

For more information, see:
http://www.luckymojo.com/cartomancy.htm ... waitesmith

Unread post by **nyalisa_13** » Wed Jul 01, 2020 5:53 pm

Madame Nadia, is the lady that is originally from Moldova, right? Miss Cat, pointed out to me when we spoke about divination. So the book is written to help in divination skills or is it more of a general understanding of the Lenormand deck?

Unread post by **catherineyronwode** » Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:52 pm

nyalisa_13 --

The Red Folder is a compilation of workshop flyers from The Hoodoo Heritage Festical by many authors. One article in there, 4 pages in length, covers some of Madame Nadia's thinking about several forms of ard reading, including Lenormand. She teaches and reads these cards. Look her up at AIRR. And yes, she was born in Moldova.

Complete Red Folder table of contents here:
https://www.luckymojo.com/theredfolder.html

Madame Nadia's bio and booking page at AIRR:
http://readersandrootworkers.org/index. ... dame_Nadia

The Original Rider Waite Tarot Set

The Original Rider Waite Tarot Pack presents a faithful facsimile of the tarot deck painted by Pamela Colman Smith and published by Rider and Co. in 1910. This deck features the popular Rose and Lilly back.

DIV-TAR-RWOR
The Original Rider Waite Tarot Set
$24.00

You can order right here in the Forum by clicking on the blue Add To Cart button.

For more information, see:
http://www.luckymojo.com/cartomancy.htm ... waitesmith

Unread post by **nyalisa_13** » Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:00 am

catherineyronwode --

Oh yes! I did order both Red and Black Folders, can't wait to read it!

Jill562210 · Unread post by **Jill562210** » Sun Aug 09, 2020 10:07 am

Interesting! is there any specific type of Tarot cards that are the best?

Regards - Jill

Unread post by **Terra Rising** » Wed Aug 12, 2020 7:11 am

Jill562210,

Best for what? Learning? Love readings? I suggest going with a deck that speaks to you and that you connect with.

I like the basic Rider Waite because it is common and there is so much information on it. I connect with the imagery and it triggers my intuition.

If you go with a foreign deck, be prepared! Not all of them have good translations in the booklet.

Some of the newer decks are hit or miss. Some have great guide books and others give you just a word or two for the meaning. This can be difficult for a beginner.

Note: There is a HUGE problem with counterfeit decks coming from China. They often don't include any form of a guide booklet and are made from cheap cardstock. Some of the images are will be cut off or blurry. I suggest purchasing from a metaphysical shop over some of the online markets. At least until you can spot the counterfeit by just looking over the ads. These criminals are getting better and they can dupe professionals as well.

Good Luck!

Unread post by **catherineyronwode** » Wed Oct 21, 2020 3:28 pm

Over in Facebook, someone sent me a private message::

Hi catherine

which best book you recommend me for playing cards divination?

---

My reply in FB:

Prof. P. R. S. Foli -- "Fortune-Telling By Cards."

---

My additional comment, for the Forums:

Professor P. R. S. Foli was a pseudonym of Sir Cyril Arthur Pearson, who wrote and published many books on divination and the occult in the late 1800s and early 1900s. Pearson also wrote an oraculum divination book, "The White-Magic Book," under the pseudonym "Mrs. John C. Le Breton."

Unread post by **stinastarryeyed** » Fri Dec 25, 2020 10:17 pm

I think the Art Deco deck is so beautiful, but I cannot find a deck anywhere! It's so sad that's it's discontinued.

Unread post by **catherineyronwode** » Sat Dec 26, 2020 2:11 am

I agree -- it sold well for our shop for 25 years and then the publisher, Piatnik, just discontinued it. I think that was a pretty dumb move on their part.

Unread post by **franciscain** » Thu Feb 11, 2021 1:44 am

Hello, I would like to know if anyone would like to share their experience using the Gypsy Orac;e Cards / Oraculo de La Gitana deck.

Particularly are you using reverse meanings for this deck ?

thank you !

Unread post by **Nejo** » Sat Feb 13, 2021 7:43 pm

I like the Marchetti decks because the art work is magnificent

Xnib21 · Unread post by **Xnib21** » Sun Jun 27, 2021 4:17 pm

Hello
I was gifted a deck of Medieval Scapini Tarot back in the late 1990s from a friend. I bought a book to learn the meanings of the cards, kept the deck wrapped in silk and tried to keep it clean with smudging, etc. I used it mostly for personal readings, meditation and such, and after a time, I began to pull so many sword cards at every turn and felt so much negativity around the deck. I also started having a steady stream of bad things happen in my life, and I became afraid I had messed with something I shouldn’t. I ended up burning the deck and have felt nervous about tarot in general ever since.

After listening to today’s excellent radio show on tarot, I am feeling curious about them again. I didn’t hear any commentary about a deck being a harbinger of bad luck or anything—in fact, quite the contrary. I am now wondering how to best reintroduce a deck into my life with a renewed sense of their potential to be a positive force in one’s life.

Thank you for any thoughts on the matter.

Unread post by **DocMurphy** » Sun Jun 27, 2021 7:18 pm

Hi Xnib21,

Glad you tuned in and that you enjoyed the show!

Something to remember about a tarot deck -- it is a tool. The deck, used in tandem with Divine guidance, will show you if you're having trouble -- rarely is a card deck the cause of the trouble itself. It sounds like you burned the messenger there. Your intuition and the spirits were showing that you needed to be aware of trouble, and the deck gave you that message. It actually sounds like it was doing its job.

Anyway, I would say go to your favorite metaphysical shop that sells tarot (Lucky Mojo does), and look for a deck with artwork and visuals that really appeal to your senses. There are so many now, you'll find one that's "so you". Give it a good incensing when you get home, pray over it, ask your Divine guides to help, bless it, and again, wrap it in silk or put in in a beautiful box. The better you treat it, the better it'll treat you.

Start with a daily card practice. It's a good way to get to know the meanings of each card, and will give you a good relationship with your deck. If crummy cards come up, well, rather than look at your deck as the cause, ask it to help you identify what's going on -- it may be warning you of something coming or what you need to know to avoid bad things happening. It's doing you a favor that way.

I hope you give tarot another thought. It is a rich and beautiful tradition. Hope that helps some.

Best,
Doc Murphy
Paganistan

Xnib21 · Unread post by **Xnib21** » Sun Jul 11, 2021 2:27 pm

Thank you for the kind and thoughtful response, Doc Murphy. It made a lot more sense to look at things from your perspective rather than blaming the deck I had for the challenges I have experienced.

Last week I went to look at new cards and was actually drawn to an old school Rider Waite deck. I spent some time with it cleansing with incense and setting my intentions. I hope to have a long and happy relationship with it.

blessings,
xnib21 (bins)

Unread post by **DocMurphy** » Sun Jul 11, 2021 4:38 pm

Congratulations! And best wishes.

Doc Murphy
Paganistan

Lucibet · Unread post by **Lucibet** » Tue Aug 03, 2021 7:44 am

Greetings, I am new here. I look forward to the adventure of new learning.

I read runes and ogham, but would like to take a fresh look at tarot. My Ma has read tarot as long as I can remember; she uses the Aquarian deck. I am considering that, but would like to know if there are perhaps any particular decks that ya'll might recommend, or that might be particularly popular?

Thanks for y'all''s time.

~ Lucibet

Unread post by **catherineyronwode** » Tue Aug 03, 2021 10:19 am

Hello, Lucibet, and welcome to the Lucky Mojo Forum.

I have used the Aquarian Tarot since it first came out. We used to call it "the hippie tarot," due to the style of artwork.

As you may or may not know, David Palladini, who drew this deck, did so by zooming in on close-up portions of the Rider-Waite-Smith deck. In other words, he redrew bits and pieces of Pamela Colman Smith's art to make his deck. His treatment of the images is unique and softly beautiful, and the deck remains popular decades after it was first released by Stuart Kaplan's U.S. Games Systems.

However, for those who use the Aquarian Tarot, i always recommend that they also have an becme familiar with the Rider-Waite-Smith deck, because in those more complex images, you will see "the rest of the story." This is true of other R-W-S-derived decks, such as the Halloween Tarot -- if you have an R-W-S deck as a reference, you will be able to decode or unpack amy of its "offspring" decks. I like the R-W-S mini-deck for doing comparisons while learning -- it is smaller and less-costly than a regular R-W-S deck and since you are only using it as a reference, you will find it most convenient.

As for other decks i like --

Morgan-Greer Tarot because it is borderless and can be shown to dramatic advantage on a black velvet cloth when reading at psychic fairs.

Halloween Tarot because it is so readable to R-W-S readers for use during the Halloween season and makes clients smile.

Enchanted Forest Tarot because it works well for R-W-S readers when serving younger or female clients folks and those who love a sweet style of art.

Morgan Greer Tarot (Borderless)

Use in Magic:
The tarot or tarocchi deck is the most popular system of playing card divination in America. The illustrated faces of the cards help make memorization of the card meaning for the reader and understandable to the sitter.

Spell Methods:
Tarot cards can be used in spells of magic by treating them as the basis for petition papers that relate to the specific situations they depict or as personal links to the particular people they represent.

Product Details:
The Morgan-Greer Tarot has remained one of the most popular tarot decks for decades. The fact that it is borderless makes it a natural for readers who like to lay their cards out on black velvet. Stunning!

DIV-TAR-MOGR
Morgan Greer Tarot (Borderless)
$18.00

You can order right here in the Forum by clicking on the blue Add To Cart button.

For more information, see:
http://www.luckymojo.com/cartomancy.html

Unread post by **catherineyronwode** » Wed Aug 11, 2021 10:04 am

Psychic Readers' Fortune-Telling and Divination Special (10 Books)

Use in Magic:
This awesome array of books will help you see what the future holds in store. Included in the The Psychic Readers' Fortune-Telling and Divination Special are catherine yronwode's "Throwing the Bones," Michele Jackson's "Bones Shells, and Curios," Rev. Dr. Jon Saint Germain's "Crystal Magic" and "Lithomancy," Professor Porterfield's "A Deck of Spells," Dr. Jeremy Weiss's "Vulvamancy," Valentina Burton's "Fortune Tellers Guide to Success," Dr. Roy Page Walton's "The Secret of Numbers Revealed," edited by cat yronwode, "The Stranger in the Cup" by Gregory Lee White and catherine yronwode, and last but not least, Claude Alexander Conlin's "Secrets of the Crystal Silence League."

Spell Methods:
Lucky Mojo Books are filled with authentic and easy to follow instructions for practical spells of magic and fortune-telling. Enhance your success in spells of love, luck, happiness, and wealth by learning time-tested folkloric traditions of hoodoo, rootwork, psychic reading, spiritual sorcery, and herbalism.

Product Details:
In this ten-volume set -- a total of 960 pages! -- you will learn the history, methods, and techniques of psychic reading and divination with bones, coins, crystals, stones, numbers, cards, and observation of physical traits, and you will also receive a career-building manual on how to set up your own professional psychic reading practice. These ten books regularly sell for $12.00 each (a total of $120.00). Pay only $10.50 each when you buy all ten as a package deal -- a total of only $105.00 (a savings of $15.00). Order "The Psychic Readers' Fortune-Telling and Divination Special" and you will receive one copy each of these 96-page books:

• Bones, Shells, and Curios by Michele Jackson
• Crystal Magic by Jon Saint Germain
• A Deck of Spells by Professor C. D. Porterfield
• The Fortune Teller's Guide to Success by Valentina Burton
• Lithomancy by Rev. Dr. Jon Saint Germain
• The Secret of Numbers Revealed by catherine yronwode, Dr. Roy Page Walton, Lewis de Claremont, Godfrey Spencer, and Frank Householder
• Secrets of the Crystal Silence League by Claude Alexander Conlin, edited, annotated, restored, and revised by catherine yronwode and Deacon Millett
• The Stranger n the Cup by Gregory Lee White and catherine yronwode
• Throwing the Bones by catherine yronwode
• Vulvamancy by Dr. Jeremy Weiss

Format: Ten 96 page books (960 pages), trade paperbacks, illustrated
Publisher: LMCCo and MISC
Publication dates: 2013-2020
ISBNs: Various
Tagged: Divination, Spells and Magic, Specials

BOO-SPE-DIVI
Psychic Readers' Fortune-Telling and Divination Special (10 Books)
$105.00

You can order right here in the Forum by clicking on the blue Add To Cart button.

For more information, see:
https://www.luckymojo.com/luckymojopubl ... l#specials

georgosian · Unread post by **georgosian** » Sun Sep 12, 2021 2:13 pm

Does The Parlour Sibyl (La Sibylle des Salons) deck fall under the category of Lenormand deck of cards or is it an oracle deck? It hasn't been mentioned yet.

Are Lenormand and Oracle decks read in the same way? If not, does the book 'The Playing Card Oracles Divination Sourcebook' by Ana Cortez a good source of information that tackles specifically The Parlour Sibyl? Or is it better 'Learning Lenormand' by Marcus Katz and Tali Goodwin? I think it depends if this deck is Lenormand or oracle deck.

Of course I'll take into consideration the book 'Game of Destiny' recommended by Madame Nadia and the one recommended by Miss Cat 'A Deck of Spells' by Professor C. D. Porterfield. I just think the more information on a subject, the better.

Thanks to all

Unread post by **Miss Athena** » Tue Sep 14, 2021 8:21 am

Hello georgosian,

No, La Sibylle des Salons is its own system of cartomancy that is quite different from the Lenormand. Apart from having 52 cards vs. the 36 of Lenormand, the cards depict different subjects and images and each also contains its own cartomantic prediction. You would not see this in the Lenormand deck.

Also, the typical layouts and approach to divination differ considerably between these two. Each is usually accompanied by a booklet explaining the cards and offering sample layouts. I read the Lenormand quite regularly and often will start with the Grand Tableau with all 36 cards when divining on a situation for my clients, then move on to various Petit Tableau layouts when getting into the details of their question.

Frankly, the only similarities between Sybille and Lenormand that one can point to is that they were both developed in France in the 1800s as parlour games and both also include a standard playing card correlation for each card.

I'm not sure which book would help best with understanding the Sybille deck. There are several good books available for working with the Lenormand. I am partial to Rana George's book myself.

I hope this helps to clear up some of the mystery between these two systems. Good luck to you!

Unread post by **catherineyronwode** » Tue Sep 28, 2021 10:34 pm

Cartomancy Postcards by Fred C. Lounsbury

Tier 3 SEPTEMBER 28th, 2021

Hello everyone, and thank you for supporting "It's All Ephemera"!

ONE NEW URL (and our regular stand-bys) go out on September 28th, 2021 for Tier 3 Patrons and above as a reward for your ongoing support of my writing projects:

1) Your Wate and Fate -- Cartomancy Postcards by Fred C. Lounsbury

[PATRONS GET THE SECRET URL IN EMAIL ONE YEAR BEFORE IT OPENS TO THE PUBLIC]

"Your Wate and Fate" spotlights various popular and folkloric methods of fortune telling, and this week i have combined the well-known technique of reading playing cards with the eccentric and long-lost method of divination by means of interpreting omens from post cards. The result is a look at the lovely and rare cartomancy postcards of Fred C. Lounsbury. These have never been published as a set since their first release in 1907, and i think you will be pleased with them, and with the short essay that accompanies them, providing historical background and divinatory commentary.

2) "Your Wate and Fate" Web site:

http://yourwateandfate.com

This site is filling up with articles that have been underwritten by my Patrons. It will open to the public page by page in 2022. To get a one-year preview on each new illustrated page, subscribe to my Patreon stream.

3) "Your Wate and Fate" Private Patreon Discussion Forum:

private-patreon-forum-f237.html

As a Patron, you have access to our exclusive threads at the Lucky Mojo Forum! Signing up takes a few seconds, and each thread allows you to participate in discussions with me about the ongoing Patreon page publications. To comment on this week's new pages, or any of the previous posts, please go to my private Patreon forum at the web address above.

4) And remember, if you have any difficulty reaching any of my PRIVATE Patreon forums, you can post a notice and request for help at the PUBLIC Patreon Forum page here:

support-cat-yronwode-on-patreon-t93993.html

5) If your friends ask you how to support me on Patreon, please send them to "It's All Ephemera," where they can read my update posts and sign on as Patrons:

http://patreon.com/catherineyronwode

6) Please follow me on Facebook at:

https://www.facebook.com/catyronwode

Cordially,

cat yronwode[/img]
Tier 3 SEPTEMBER 28th, 2021

Hello everyone, and thank you for supporting "It's All Ephemera"!

ONE NEW URL (and our regular stand-bys) go out on September 28th, 2021 for Tier 3 Patrons and above as a reward for your ongoing support of my writing projects:

1) Your Wate and Fate -- Cartomancy Postcards by Fred C. Lounsbury

[PATRONS GET THE SECRET URL IN EMAIL ONE YEAR BEFORE IT OPENS TO THE PUBLIC]

"Your Wate and Fate" spotlights various popular and folkloric methods of fortune telling, and this week i have combined the well-known technique of reading playing cards with the eccentric and long-lost method of divination by means of interpreting omens from post cards. The result is a look at the lovely and rare cartomancy postcards of Fred C. Lounsbury. These have never been published as a set since their first release in 1907, and i think you will be pleased with them, and with the short essay that accompanies them, providing historical background and divinatory commentary.

2) "Your Wate and Fate" Web site:

http://yourwateandfate.com

This site is filling up with articles that have been underwritten by my Patrons. It will open to the public page by page in 2022. To get a one-year preview on each new illustrated page, subscribe to my Patreon stream.

3) "Your Wate and Fate" Private Patreon Discussion Forum:

private-patreon-forum-f237.html

As a Patron, you have access to our exclusive threads at the Lucky Mojo Forum! Signing up takes a few seconds, and each thread allows you to participate in discussions with me about the ongoing Patreon page publications. To comment on this week's new pages, or any of the previous posts, please go to my private Patreon forum at the web address above.

4) And remember, if you have any difficulty reaching any of my PRIVATE Patreon forums, you can post a notice and request for help at the PUBLIC Patreon Forum page here:

support-cat-yronwode-on-patreon-t93993.html

5) If your friends ask you how to support me on Patreon, please send them to "It's All Ephemera," where they can read my update posts and sign on as Patrons:

http://patreon.com/catherineyronwode

6) Please follow me on Facebook at:

https://www.facebook.com/catyronwode

Cordially,

cat yronwode

Unread post by **catherineyronwode** » Thu Oct 28, 2021 8:24 pm

Tier 3 OCTOBER 28th, 2021

Hello everyone, and thank you for supporting "It's All Ephemera"!

ONE NEW URL (and our regular stand-bys) go out on October 28th, 2021 for Tier 3
Patrons and above as a reward for your ongoing support of my writing projects:

1) Your Wate and Fate -- Fortune Telling Cigarette Cards by Edwards, Ringer and Bigg, Part Two: The Cross of Fifteen

[PATRONS GET THE SECRET URL IN EMAIL ONE YEAR BEFORE IT OPENS TO THE PUBLIC]
http://yourwateandfate.com/Fortune_Tell ... r_and_Bigg

This is Part Two of our four-part husband-and-wife collaboration on the resurrection, restoration, and interpretation of the amazing "How To Tell Fortunes" Cigarette Cards by Edwards, Ringer and Bigg. This week nagasiva has finished the photoshopping, and i have completed the transcription and annotation of the six cartomancy instruction cards from 1929, which present a complete and unique form of card reading by the Cross of Fifteen. This is neither the Celtic Cross tarot layout nor the Method of Fifteen playing card layout. In fact, the Cross of Fifteen is unlike any other card layout and, surprisingly, it offers unexpected insights into British tasseomancy and folk magic. Stay tuned, because the series continues next week with Tea Leaf Reading, and then concludes with Palmistry. The uncredited author and artist of these cards had solid knowledge and a clever way of breaking complex methods down into easy-to follow instructions. You are going to love the lessons and the art. Along the way i present annotations and side-commentaries, as always, because there is a lot to unpack from these fabulous antique trading cards.

2) "Your Wate and Fate" Web site:

http://yourwateandfate.com

3) "Your Wate and Fate" Private Patreon Discussion Forum:

private-patreon-forum-f237.html

As a Patron, you have access to our exclusive threads at the Lucky Mojo Forum! Signing up takes a few seconds, and each thread allows you to participate in discussions with me about the ongoing Patreon page publications. To comment on this week's new pages, or any of the previous posts, please go to my private Patreon forum at the web address above.

4) And remember, if you have any difficulty reaching any of my PRIVATE Patreon forums, you can post a notice and request for help at the PUBLIC Patreon Forum page here:

support-cat-yronwode-on-patreon-t93993.html

5) If your friends ask you how to support me on Patreon, please send them to "It's All Ephemera," where they can read my update posts and sign on as Patrons for just $2.00 per weekly article:

http://patreon.com/catherineyronwode

6) Please follow me on Facebook at:

https://www.facebook.com/catyronwode

Cordially,

cat yronwode

Stay tuned, because the series continues next week with Tea Leaf Reading, and then concludes with Palmistry. The uncredited author and artist of these cards had solid knowledge and a clever way of breaking complex methods down into easy-to follow instructions. You are going to love the lessons and the art. Along the way i present annotations and side-commentaries, as always, because there is a lot to unpack from these fabulous antique trading cards.

2) "Your Wate and Fate" Web site:

http://yourwateandfate.com

3) "Your Wate and Fate" Private Patreon Discussion Forum:

private-patreon-forum-f237.html

As a Patron, you have access to our exclusive threads at the Lucky Mojo Forum! Signing up takes a few seconds, and each thread allows you to participate in discussions with me about the ongoing Patreon page publications. To comment on this week's new pages, or any of the previous posts, please go to my private Patreon forum at the web address above.

4) And remember, if you have any difficulty reaching any of my PRIVATE Patreon forums, you can post a notice and request for help at the PUBLIC Patreon Forum page here:

support-cat-yronwode-on-patreon-t93993.html

5) If your friends ask you how to support me on Patreon, please send them to "It's All Ephemera," where they can read my update posts and sign on as Patrons for just $2.00 per weekly article:

http://patreon.com/catherineyronwode

6) Please follow me on Facebook at:

https://www.facebook.com/catyronwode

Cordially,

cat yronwode

Unread post by **catherineyronwode** » Sun Feb 06, 2022 11:34 am

LUCKY MOJO HOODOO ROOTWORK HOUR MM/DD/YY:
The Lucky Mojo Hoodoo Rootwork Hour will be on the air today at 3pm PT, 6pm ET with catherine yronwode, ConjureMan, and special guest Freya Rose. We begin this show with a Discussion Panel on the topic of Weird Tarot Decks You Never Heard Of and provide 90 minutes of free readings, free spells, and conjure consultations, giving listeners an education in African-American folk magic.

Tune in online to listen:
Weird Tarot Decks You Never Heard Of with Freya Rose
http://tobtr.com/s/12060391

Join the chat room: Use a registered BlogTalkRadio account to connect with the hosts while the show is live.

Sign up as a client for this show: To get a free reading and rootwork consultation, copy the Show Sign-Up Form below into a new post in this thread and fill it out. On the day of the show, call in by phone to 818-394-8535 and press '1' to 'raise your hand' so the host can see you. Join the chat room using a registered BlogTalkRadio account.

#magicspells #conjurespells #hoodoospells #psychicreaders #folkmagic #podcast #luckymojocurioco #freespells

The LMC Radio Network
http://LMCRadioNetwork.com

If you miss the live show, the URL link will take you to the full show in our radio podcast archive.

Unread post by **catherineyronwode** » Sun Feb 06, 2022 12:12 pm

The topic of today's first-Sunday-of-the-month Oracle Hour show on the Lucky Mojo hoodoo and fortune telling podcast is "Weird Tarot Decks You Never Heard Of." In the spirit of the eternal Fifth-Grader in all of us, may i present -- The Lisa Frank Tarot!

ConjureMan and i will be discussing this and other strange decks with Freya Rose. Join us live and suggest YOUR faves -- and then listen as we actually read these wacky packs for two lucky clients!

The show starts at 3:00 PM PST / 6:00 PM EST at http://tobtr.com/s/12060391 <-- That URL is the permanent link to the show in archive, if you miss it live.

#luckymojocurioco #fortunetelling #tarotcards #tarotreading #freepsychicreading #onlinetarotreading #hoodoopractitioner

Follow us on Instagram @catherineyronwode and @luckymojocurioco

Unread post by **catherineyronwode** » Mon Feb 07, 2022 10:56 am

Speaking of "Weird Tarot Decks You Never Heard Of" -- the topic of yesterday's Lucky Mojo Hoodoo Rootwork Hour podcast (which you can catch in our archives; link below) -- here is the deck i was raving about and read with -- the Zirkus Magi by Douglas Thornsjo of Duck Soup.

It comes in numerous variant editions and this is the "Roadshow" set, which Doug sent to me in 2014 in memory of our days in comics fandom. Find more details at https://tarotbyducksoup.com

Listen to the podcast here: http://tobtr.com/s/12060391

#tarotcards #tarotreading #cardreading #psychicreading #fortunetelling

Follow us on Instagram @catherineyronwode and @luckymojocurioco

Unread post by **catherineyronwode** » Mon Apr 04, 2022 4:53 pm

I don't think a week goes by without me recommending the book "Classic Tarot Spreads" by Sandor Konraad.
Classic Tarot Spreads by Sandor Konraad

Use in Magic:
Classic Tarot Spreads by Sandor Konraad Classic Tarot Spreads presents one of the most comprehensive collections of card spreads available in one book. It includes 22 classic spreads that provide a key to the history, mythology and metaphysical meanings of the cards. The book not only covers the practice and ritual of card reading, it treats the Tarot deck as a magical tool and counseling medium that can be used to resolve basic life issues. Sandor Konraad includes spreads for opening a reading - answering questions about health, love, marriage and money - as well as spreads for ending a reading. 

Spell Methods:
This book is equally useful for tarot novices and for seasoned professionals who want to learn a few new ways to read the cards. There is no other book like it, and it belongs in everyone's tarot library.

Product Details:
160 pages, paperback

BOO-DIV-CTSK
Classic Tarot Spreads by Sandor Konraad
$14.95

You can order right here in the Forum by clicking on the blue Add To Cart button.

For more information, see:

Unread post by **catherineyronwode** » Mon Apr 18, 2022 10:46 pm

Some of my vintage and antique books on playing card reading. As you can see, many of these books are well worn — because I have been a card reader for 56 years. My services can be booked via the Association of Independent Readers and Rootworkers as well as at Hoodoo Psychics (1-888-4-HOODOO extension 1111). I also give free readings weekly on the Lucky Mojo Hoodoo Rootwork Hour podcast. Sign up at the Lucky Mojo Forum for a free reading and rootwork advice. See my huge, free, educational website on tea, tea rooms, fortune-telling tea cups, and how you can learn to do tea leaf reading at TheMysticTeaRoom.com -- cat

#luckymojocurioco #cardreading #fortuneteller #psychicreader #cartomancy #fortunetelling

Follow me on Instagram @catherineyronwode and @luckymojocurioco

cyprianinspired · Unread post by **cyprianinspired** » Tue May 24, 2022 1:09 pm

Is it possible to confuse or block others divinations on what you’re doing? Or perhaps better said is it possible to occlude your workings from external divination? Conjureman Ali mentioned confusing divinations in The Four Elements episode but I can’t seem to locate any info about it via searching the forum.

Unread post by **JayDee** » Tue May 24, 2022 3:42 pm

cyprianinspired ,

One method of hiding your work is using Bay Leaves to hide it from the person, laying them in a 5 spot pattern. You can also do confusion work on those individuals as well.

JayDee

cyprianinspired · Unread post by **cyprianinspired** » Tue May 24, 2022 4:49 pm

Like four bay leaves in the corners and one in the middle? So outside and in the middle of the work?