Graveyard, Ancestors, Mediumship, Dying, Death, The Dead

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Re: Graveyard, Ancestors, Mediumship, Dying, Death, The Dead

Unread post by catherineyronwode » Fri Nov 01, 2019 10:14 am

Hello, Learline --

I see that the question has drifted from "Can my husband and i use the same altar?" to "Should i set up an ancestor altar to venerate my parents, who were not together in life and who also had alcohol and drug addictions?"

So, i will leave the question of your husband and altar-sharing behind, and move on to the question of what constitutes a worthy ancestor and how those of us who have what some might call "wounded" ancestors can handle their conflicted emotions of love, gratitude, affection, despair, anger, and hatred and forge a bond with ancestors who were troubled and troubling while alive.

For this reason, i have moved your new question, FiachnaCybele's reply to it, and this reply of mine to a new topic thread -- "Graveyard, Ancestors, Mediumship, Dying, Death, The Dead."

As FiachnaCybele said, any decisions you make will have to be personal, but i would like to add that because you are not the first person who has walked this path, there happens to be quite a lot of religious theory and community wisdom on the subject, and it is available to you, should you choose to take it.

This material is adapted from an old Lucky Mojo Shop Flyer that i wrote, and which we used to print and give out to customers.

Ancestor veneration, Spiritism, and Spiritualism, as practiced in the Americas since the 1850s , are what we call "open congregation" religions. That is, you do not have to be born as the descendant of someone in the religion, nor do you need to be initiated in order to participate in the practice of the religion, nor is your entrance into the religion mediated by a member of the clergy (such as a priest or priestess) who can gainsay your admission, nor do you need to undergo any sort of ordeal trial or probationary period before being allowed to perform venerations according to the precepts of the religion.

Because of their loose structure in modern times, open congregation religions do have a tendency toward loose community bonds, and some are engaged by solitary practitioners, outside a physical church structure. When practiced in the home, they are also part of what are called "domestic religions."

The fact that some religions have an open congregation structure and are practiced in the home does NOT mean that they have no body of shared community wisdom and practice. It does NOT mean that they are something you can "make up as you go along."

Also be aware that not all open congregation religions are domestic religions and not all domestic religions are open congregation religions. Nor are either restricted to religions that include ancestor veneration. They overlap, and i am discussing the religious practices that fall within the area of overlap between open congregation and domestic religions -- and also overlap with the set of religions which include the practice of ancestor veneration.

In order to engage in the practices of a domestic and / or open congregation ancestor veneration religion, you would do well to meet others who are also members of the religion and learn from them the continuity and customs of the practice. Failing that, you ought to read books, watch videos, and otherwise receive and put into practice the historical wisdom and knowledge of the religion.

As an example, the domestic ancestor veneration of the ancient Romans differs from that of the modern Kardecian Spritists, and both differ from the practices of the modern Spiritual Church Movement. Each has many interesting qualities, and, believe me, each has grappled with the issue of "unworthy ancestors." How this matter is resolved within each religion is a matter of local culture and custom. There is no one answer to the question. Either you can do as FiachnaCybele suggested, and pioneer your own way through the problem, or you can take my advice, offered freely, which has gained many adherents, and is certainly well known and well practiced at this time.

But first, let us look at our options. There are, essentially, five -ways to deal with unwanted ancestor spirits -- and each has been the custom in one culture or another, at different times:

1) Entrapment. Spirits can be trapped in containers. This method is commonly used to collect and dispose of demons or djinns. It may also be undertaken with ghosts and ancestral spirits. The key to its effectiveness is the proper disposal of the spirit trap. It may be sunk in the sea, taken out to the desert, or buried in a cemetery, as appropriate.

2) Banishment. The unworthy ancestors can be exiled or banished from the altar. They are divorced from the family. In many cultures, this is accomplished by visiting the grave, presenting a list of grievances, and spitting or pissing on the grave of the ancestor, with a final curse.

3) Release. The unworthy ancestors can be forgiven and released to go on to meet their God, or be reborn, or go to Hell, or go to Heaven, according to whatever afterlife cosmology one accepts. This is often done by calling upon higher spirits such as angels, archangels, or god(s) to administer to the ancestor whatever punishment or reward is to be meted out. This can be accomplished by scattering flowers on their graves or dispersing their ashes into the wind or the sea.

4) Negotiated or Mediated Contact. The unworthy ancestors may be contacted in spirit by a professional trance medium, who will convey and relay messages to them and from them. This may develop into a protracted series of mediumistic seances within a Spiritualist church or consulting room setting, but it is also possible to uncover a mediumship gift within oneself and to make the contacts in the home. Negotiated contact is, alas, subject to fraud on the part of false mediums, so it must be entered into with absolute trust and confidence. In particular, be wary of any spirit medium or ancestor reader who tells you that you must pay for expensive gifts or an elaborate ceremony in order to "settle" the ancestors, and that they will "haunt" you if you fail to pay.

5) Elevation. The unworthy ancestors can be asked to mend their unfortunate ways and can be guided in an upward and redemptive path through which, as spirits, they will come to see what they did wrong, to cast aside their frailties, and to become worthy members of the spirit world. This is accomplished with an actual physical piece of domestic altar work, called an ancestor elevation. There are many versions of such a ceremony, but an especially traditional one can be found in the book "Deliverance" by Khi Armand.

Study and learn, for in the end is YOU, not a priest or a root doctor, who must choose which course your acknowledgement and veneration of these troubled ancestors will take. Here is a link to the book "Deliverance" --

BOO-GRI-DELI
Deliverance by Khi Armand
$12.00

Image

Image

You can order right here in the Forum by clicking on the blue Add To Cart button.

Contents

Dedication 4
Acknowledgements 4
About This Book 5
Who Will Deliver Us? 6
What Is Hoodoo? 7
The Terminology of Conjure 8
On the Purchase of Spiritual Products 9
On Botanicals, Minerals, and Animal Curios 10
Diagnosing Spiritual Problems 11
Understanding Magic 11
Understanding Spiritual Gifts 13
Understanding Initiatory Crises 14
Understanding Jinxes and Crossed Conditions 16
Understanding Intrusive Spirits and Energies 17
Understanding Curses 18
Interpreting Dreams, Signs, and Omens 20
Formal Methods of Divination and Reading 23
Spiritual First Aid Spells 26
Uncrossing and Spiritual Cleansing 29
Uncrossing Money: Deliverance from Poverty 39
Uncrossing Love: Deliverance from Loneliness 45
Uncrossing Health Matters 49
Uncrossing Legal Matters 54
Dealing with Intrusive Spirits and Energies 58
Reversing and Protection 60
Carrying the Good Work On 66
Unlocking Clarity and Self-Mastery 66
When You Are Stuck: Block Buster Work 69
When You Are Ready: Road Opener Work 71
Maintenance: How Often Should You Cleanse? 72
Developing Relationships with Helping Spirits 73
Developing Relationships with Ancestors 74
Developing Relationships with Angels and Saints 79
How to Find the Right Root Doctor 86
Spiritual and Social Resources 89
Frequently Asked Questions 90
Bibliography 96
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Re: Graveyard, Ancestors, Mediumship, Dying, Death, The Dead

Unread post by FreyaRose » Fri Nov 01, 2019 10:37 am

Thank you for the wisdom, Miss cat! Like Learline, I'd actually be struggling with this question myself, and this historical info and advice on where to go to learn more is super helpful. It's difficult when ancestors are reaching out, but you had challenging relationships with them when they were alive, to say the least.

I haven't read "Deliverance!" by Khi Armand yet, but now it's bumped to the top of my reading list.
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Re: Graveyard, Ancestors, Mediumship, Dying, Death, The Dead

Unread post by Learline » Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:35 am

Thank you both Miss Cat and FiachnaCybele. I also will be picking up deliverance. Thank you Miss Cat so much. You are so informative.

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Re: Graveyard, Ancestors, Mediumship, Dying, Death, The Dead

Unread post by catherineyronwode » Sat Nov 09, 2019 1:26 pm

Learline, you are most welcome.

As a matter of fact, text in the forum tends to be accessed sporadically, because few newcomers bother to read 5 or more previous pages of questions and replies (more's the pity) so when i write a substantial answer, i save it in my hard-drive for future thinking. Replying to serious questions of methodology such as yours often provides me with an opportunity to create short essays or outlines, such as the one above, and i save these for use as springboards to further writing when i compose books or web pages.

So thank YOU for a good question!
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Re: Graveyard, Ancestors, Mediumship, Dying, Death, The Dead

Unread post by landsgenesis2 » Mon Dec 09, 2019 9:32 am

Hi everyone,
I happen to remember ConjureMan Ali saying on the Lucky Mojo Hoodoo Rootwork Hour last month or the month before that that one can, in the absence of access to a relative's actual resting place, use general cemetery dirt to invoke a spirit of an ancestor or relative. It appeared, to me, from the way it was stated, that a handful of dirt and serious prayer will call whomsoever forth successfully. He did put an emphasis or the word "will" when he said "They will show up," if my memory serves me right. Ah! I remember, it was the episode with Angela Marie Horner that was to originally air around Halloween but got pushed back due to the fires--Graveyard Walking I believe it was titled; I'll have to listen to it again :)

So my questions are pretty brief:

1) When I find a graveyard that speaks to me, and I gather the dirt, as far as one way of working, does it simply take a verbal petition in order for the invocation to be successful and/or is ritual involved?

1a) Are there any particular Psalms or some sort of specified verbiage that has proved more effective than others? In other words, what are some of the recommended Psalms or phrases, or scriptures in general, that I can use in addition to my verbal petition (if that'll work) that will cause my work to be complete if that is at all necessary?

1b) I live directly in front of a crossroad, so with the question being "What do I do with the soil I used for this purpose" I'll ask if it's appropriate to do away with the dirt at the crossroad. Which leads me to ask (man, the more I type the more I realise that I have questions that I didn't know I had):

2) For how long should I keep the dirt? And if for a while, do I just use a jar and keep it in a safe place?

3) How can I confirm that someone has come and whom (especially if my intent is on someone specific: my great-grandmother was "the hoodoo lady" who died when I was two, and say I just wanted general guidance in a way that I will recognize it to the betterment of my spiritual aims, desires, and practice)?

3a) I'll thank whoever shows up but I must figure out how (what if it's someone malevolent or in need of elevation?). My great-grandma didn't know me all that well as I was eleven months old when I entered this family, so asking a favor of her first thing is not something I'm keen on doing. I want relationship, and my hope is that through the remote location of the dirt, separate from her grave, I'll be able to have her hang around a bit if she's not already specifically "assigned" to me for a lack of a better expression.

So, that pretty much sums up my enquiry for now. I'm sure I'm forgetting to ask something though--my thoughts of late have been leaving just as soon as they come, and I feel like I have to "turn around and walk backwards" to get the thought back.

But, just a general question could have probably sufficed (just, JUST realized, after typing all of that, that I could have simply said):

4) ConjureMan Ali mentioned that one can use cemetery dirt (not from someone's grave) to bring ancestors into your life; how do you do this?

Thanks and Happy Holidays!
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Re: Graveyard, Ancestors, Mediumship, Dying, Death, The Dead

Unread post by FreyaRose » Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:23 am

Hi landsgenesis2,

For trying to bring ancestors, known or unknown, into your life, when you don't have access to their actual graveyard dirt, you can absolutely use "general" graveyard dirt from your local cemetery to call them in, as it were.

For more information on how to do this, do a little research on how the Spiritualist Church creates a "Black Hawk in a Bucket," where they call the Spirit of Black Hawk into a bucket made with general dirt, and use it as a type of altar to contact him.

There are also several great rootworkers and readers here who can provide spiritual coaching to help you set up your ancestor altar using that general graveyard dirt:

http://www.readersandrootworkers.org/wi ... ootworkers

Lots of them work with ancestors and can help you either get a reading to determine who shows up, or help guide you through making that connection yourself.

I hope this is helpful. Please also read through this excellent thread from the start for ideas about how others contact their ancestors, both known and unknown. Good luck!
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Re: Graveyard, Ancestors, Mediumship, Dying, Death, The Dead

Unread post by landsgenesis2 » Tue Jan 07, 2020 4:45 pm

FiachnaCybele,

Thank you for your reply! I definitely will do a little bit more research. I was somewhat cautious about posting my questions, however, not sure how much of it would constitute magickal coaching. Also, sorry for the delay in voicing my thanks. :) I pray your Holiday Season was wonderful, as was mine. Take Care!
I will utter dark sayings of old: Which we have heard and known and our fathers have told us.

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Re: Graveyard, Ancestors, Mediumship, Dying, Death, The Dead

Unread post by unveiledartist » Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:20 pm

Most of my family are christian so I was wondering too if communicating with them through biblical terms may catch their response. On one end, I think that's respectful but then on the other, it might not "get through" if both sides don't share aren't on the same page.

I didn't get a notification with the reply to my last post. Is it a separate post or with the approved-notification in my box?

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Re: Graveyard, Ancestors, Mediumship, Dying, Death, The Dead

Unread post by coastwitch » Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:20 pm

Hello, unveiledartist --

If your family was Christian, it would certainly seem considerate to approach them in a Christian way.

I am not sure how the notification ystem works. I do know that after you post three messages here, your posts go through automatically.
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Re: Graveyard, Ancestors, Mediumship, Dying, Death, The Dead

Unread post by unveiledartist » Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:06 pm

The dependency, though, is I'm not christian. It would probably be more of an insult; I'm not sure.

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Re: Graveyard, Ancestors, Mediumship, Dying, Death, The Dead

Unread post by FreyaRose » Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:21 am

Hi unveiledartist,

As folks have said, it would probably be well received if they themselves are Christian, but you know them best, and it is up to you. If you're not comfortable, then just keep it simple. But if you are, they might really appreciate you making the effort.

Good luck!
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Re: Graveyard, Ancestors, Mediumship, Dying, Death, The Dead

Unread post by catherineyronwode » Tue Jan 28, 2020 4:36 pm

unveiledartist,

I agree with Fiachna that appreciation is the key.

Let me give you something to think about:

I am Jewish, and my mother taught me that when we were invited to a Christian home and they said Grace before meals, i was to do as they did, and say Grace with them. She taught me that, depending on the Christian denomination and local popular custom, some bowed their heads, some put their hands together like a steeple, some held their hands pressed together with their fingers interlocked, and some would hold hands all around the table -- and that whatever they did, i was to do. Furthermore, at the close of Grace. i was to say Amen if they all said Amen, or to say nothing if they all said nothing. And if they said, "Thank you, Jesus," i was to say, "Thank you, Jesus" with them, because Jesus was a good Jew and we can at least thank him for trying to overcome the Roman occupation. And if they called upon each family member or guest to say something, going around the table in turn, i was to say, "Thank you, Lord, for the food we are about to receive," because that is non-denominational and does not force a Jew to worship a different God than our God.

I don't think that my participation in table-Grace has offended my ancestors or my God, nor do i think i ever gave offense to those who had invited me to share a meal.

Now, you are asking ancestors for help. Think of that as them providing you with a spiritual meal. Thank them in a way that is appropriate to their spiritual tradition. If you think that saying a Christian prayer might ingratiate yourself with them, then do so. But if you think that a direct request, without a religious context, would be acceptable, do that instead.
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Re: Graveyard, Ancestors, Mediumship, Dying, Death, The Dead

Unread post by landsgenesis2 » Sun Feb 02, 2020 5:15 pm

I love that advice miss cat - and I love the thought experiment you gave. I recently learned that my paternal biological lineage, as an adoptee, is Louisianian in a town I know you've must have heard of, Natchitoches, one of the major centers of hoodoo in the state and that whole region actually. I know there must be some ancestors there who practiced hoodoo as some of the relatives down that line that I've found have been tangentially close to those who I know adopt the practice -- plus, it's LA and would be somewhat odd if there wasn't a mix of voodoo or at least hoodoo somewhere in the mix of my bloodline given that my paternal family is one of the founding families of the state having come over in the 18th century --, and not only that, Catholicism as well (this family of mine is also the same that founded the first free Black church in America). But that's simply neither here nor there when it comes to what I would like to ask you.

With your thought experiment and my ambition to develop a relationship with ancestors so close to the practice (presumably) of hoodoo, me being adopted and basically not knowing anything about those paternal ancestors except a few "for certain" people corroborated by genetic testing in the public domain, how do you suggest that I beseech them when I don't even know their personalities, let alone their names? What if they don't like me nor I them? In what attitude should I even approach the work of getting to know them? -- the same way I would get to know anyone else I don't know?
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Re: Graveyard, Ancestors, Mediumship, Dying, Death, The Dead

Unread post by FreyaRose » Wed Feb 05, 2020 2:14 pm

Hi landsgenesis2,

This thread is full of excellent suggestions for folks who are in, or have been in, a similar boat: not knowing their ancestors who have passed, but wanting to form a relationship nonetheless. I suggest reading other people's stories of how they connected with unknown ancestors, and take those ideas to heart if they resonate with you.

The dead are just people, after all. I'd approach them like you'd approach a long-lost relative you liked to get to know better, just like you would if they were living. Go gently, with respect and gratitude, and the rest should sort itself out.

And, if you'd like, there are gifted readers who can help you narrow down which ancestors are trying to speak with you. You can find some great ones here:

www.readersandrootworkers.org
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Re: Graveyard, Ancestors, Mediumship, Dying, Death, The Dead

Unread post by landsgenesis2 » Wed Feb 05, 2020 3:08 pm

FreyaRose,

You are so awesome! Thanks for all you've imparted to me thus far :)
I will utter dark sayings of old: Which we have heard and known and our fathers have told us.

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Re: Graveyard, Ancestors, Mediumship, Dying, Death, The Dead

Unread post by daisyperson » Sun May 31, 2020 7:33 am

I hope I'm posting this in the right section, feel free to let me know if not. I'm a complete newbie trying to set up an ancestor altar. Many of my ancestors were tobacco smokers (mostly pipes) and I would like to offer tobacco on my altar. I've searched extensively but (outside the Native American tradition, which isn't mine) I can't find out HOW to offer it - just "offer" it. I have loose tobacco. Should I place it on the altar and leave it there or should I burn it? And, if possible, could someone explain the answer to me so that I understand what I'm actually doing - i.e., is the offering like food, where I offer it in the same way I would at a family dinner, or am I offering not the tobacco itself but the smoke from the tobacco (which seems as if I've already used it, in a sense, because the satisfaction for smokers is in smoking the tobacco yourself, not standing next to someone who is smoking)?

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Re: Graveyard, Ancestors, Mediumship, Dying, Death, The Dead

Unread post by Miss Athena » Mon Jun 01, 2020 6:32 pm

Hello daisyperson,

Welcome to the Lucky Mojo forum. We're happy to see you here.

I have moved your post to the topic on working with ancestors. Please do not start entirely new topics as you did - not once but twice. We have to ask that you not post in duplicate like that. We answer every new post, and posting the same thing more than once is against forum rules.

You can read the many posts in this topic on how to work with your ancestors.

If they were smokers and you want to offer them tobacco, do not smoke it yourself. Leave it as an offering on your altar for them to smoke, as you would if they were here with you in this world.

I hope this helps. Good luck.
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Re: Graveyard, Ancestors, Mediumship, Dying, Death, The Dead

Unread post by daisyperson » Thu Jun 04, 2020 10:05 am

I apologize, and thank you for the information! I didn't realize I was posting in duplicate because I kept checking my user control panel and it showed no posts and there were no notifications, so I thought that for some reason it was dropping into the void and had disappeared. Sorry also for starting a new topic, I couldn't seem to figure out where to ask this question. D'oh! Mea culpa, and thanks again.

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Re: Graveyard, Ancestors, Mediumship, Dying, Death, The Dead

Unread post by catherineyronwode » Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:25 am

daisyperson --

I have seen people smoke the tobacco "for" an ancestor and, sadly, become tobacco addicts themselves as a result.

Be cautious with addictive drugs. If your ancestor was a heroin addict, please do not inject heroin as an offering to them.

LOL! :-)
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Re: Graveyard, Ancestors, Mediumship, Dying, Death, The Dead

Unread post by daisyperson » Fri Jun 05, 2020 1:16 pm

Thank you!

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Re: Graveyard, Ancestors, Mediumship, Dying, Death, The Dead

Unread post by rcm272 » Mon Jul 27, 2020 9:54 pm

Hello everyone!

This is actually my first interaction in the lucky mojo community.

I am seeking to incorporate ancestor veneration into my practice but about 90% of my heritage is European. I'm concerned about the fact that it is very likely that many of my ancestors would not have been friendly to BIPOC, LGBTQ (especially concerning as I am gay), etc. The thought is so abhorrent to me I don't know how to incorporate a practice which could be seen as venerating their actions.

Additionally, much of my family history was lost in WWII when we fled Hungary and as such I know only as far as my great grandparents.

Do any of you have any insights into this for me?

I appreciate the help.

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Re: Graveyard, Ancestors, Mediumship, Dying, Death, The Dead

Unread post by catherineyronwode » Wed Jul 29, 2020 12:48 am

rcm272 --

You seem conflicted, both "seeking to incorporate ancestor veneration into [your] practice" and at the same time stating that, based on your suspicions about their beliefs, "the thought [of contacting them] is so abhorrent to [you that you] don't know how to incorporate a practice which could be seen as venerating their actions."

I cannot resolve those issues for you. I can tell you that we generally distinguish between worthy and unworthy ancestors. and that studying what you can of the genealogical and historical record may help you select a few worthy ancestors with whom to begin your journey of spiritual exploration.

Good luck.
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Re: Graveyard, Ancestors, Mediumship, Dying, Death, The Dead

Unread post by Metalina » Sun Nov 08, 2020 10:57 am

I had to have my beloved dog put down yesterday and I want to do something nice for her spirit and feed her ghost if I can. I have heard that certain incense can strengthen spirits, but I don’t know which ones are used for that. I won’t have her ashes for a few weeks, but I kept a lock of her hair to keep on my altar.

Any suggestions as to what incense ghosts like, or what kind of offerings to make? She was my baby.

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Re: Graveyard, Ancestors, Mediumship, Dying, Death, The Dead

Unread post by Evan Lionhart » Sun Nov 08, 2020 2:14 pm

Hi Metalina,

I'm so sorry to hear your beloved pooch is gone. Animal companions are truly something special.

In terms of offerings, uplifting "blessed" scents like Frankincense and Myrrh are always good. You can throw in a pinch of sage as that's always a good plant to offer spirits. If this were a cat, I'd switch out the sage for catnip.

You may also want to make a mojo bag out of our doggie's hair, maybe with some althea, acacia, violet leaves, frankincense to keep on your altar. I'd offer plain white candles with some cool water in his favorite bowl.

Hope this helps-my heart feels for you!
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Re: Graveyard, Ancestors, Mediumship, Dying, Death, The Dead

Unread post by RisenRaven » Sun Dec 06, 2020 3:54 pm

Someone suggested to me that you should only ask ancestors who were known to practice some form of magic to help me. Is this accurate? Because in that case I would not know of anyone I could ask. I was concerned that I couldn’t ask certain deceased relatives to help me because in life they were Christians and that perhaps they would not approve of me practicing hoodoo; or if they were willing to help, maybe they would only approve of positive things and nothing like cursing, for example. Has anyone found this to be true or false?
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Re: Graveyard, Ancestors, Mediumship, Dying, Death, The Dead

Unread post by Terra Rising » Mon Dec 07, 2020 7:18 am

RisenRaven,

I'd say this is right up there with "Your tarot cards must be gifted to you" myth. Now if they held strict Christian beliefs, would think twice about asking them to help you with a vinegar jar. I don't see why any ancestor wouldn't want to help you succeed with career, money, or love though. You are their legacy and without you all their work was for nothing.

Leaving them a small offering of fresh water, flowers or food and maybe a candle lit for them once a week is enough to open up the communication lines. I'd tell them about what you how you are doing and if you have something troubling you, tell them that too. It doesn't need to be spell related. When I throw the bones, I invite them to offer guidance. If certain ones don't want to participate in that, I'm sure they don't and I leave it at that. Invite them but don't pressure

It's hard to know where they would stand. If a trusted friend stole a money from you and you turn around to curse them, a relative might support you because they know how hard you work or what that money was going toward. I wouldn't write them off as non supporters just yet.

I hope this helps
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Re: Graveyard, Ancestors, Mediumship, Dying, Death, The Dead

Unread post by RisenRaven » Fri Dec 11, 2020 7:02 pm

Thank you so much for your reply Terra!
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Re: Graveyard, Ancestors, Mediumship, Dying, Death, The Dead

Unread post by Willow Grey » Sun Feb 28, 2021 2:08 pm

Hi. This is my first time posting in the forum, and I hope I am posting my question in the correct place.

I've never had a connection with my ancestors simply because I did not know who they were. I didn't even know my grandparents as a child. So in an effort to find out who my ancestors were and how I might work with them such as what offerings might be valuable to them and what help they can offer etc I got just enough information about my grandparents to go on ancestry.com. I traced my ancestry back to Scotland in the 1500s. It turns out that I'm directly descendant of the Scottish royal family. Mary Queen of Scots is my 19th great aunt and King James V is my 20th great grandfather.

So, here's my concern. My ancestors are personally responsible for the witch trials of Scotland, Ireland, and England. One of my great grandfathers even published a book about witch persecution while he was king. As a practicing witch, I am very afraid to invite any ancestors into my life because my whole family line was like this. I don't feel like I can ask great grandpappy james to assist in my magic when I know that while alive he would have had me burned alive for being a witch.

I am wondering if ancestors see things differently after they die or if they stay the same way that they were in life? If one only has ancestors that persecuted witches as far back as they can possibly find, is this person just out of luck in the ancestral helping spirits department? Is there anything I can do to know which ancestors are safe to connect with and which ones are not? Thank you!

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Re: Graveyard, Ancestors, Mediumship, Dying, Death, The Dead

Unread post by Miss Athena » Wed Mar 03, 2021 1:11 am

Hello Willow Grey,

Welcome to the Lucky Mojo forum. We're happy to see you here.

You can petition your ancestors who wish to be helpful and in service of your highest good. It is not an all-or-nothing proposition. I have ancestors who are extremely helpful to me and others who still won't give me the time of day, so I appeal to them individually. You can do the same.

If you have ancestors who played no part in the witch trials, and I presume you do, petition them by name and see who responds to you. You can use some of the ideas in this thread for advice on how to reach out to them.

I hope this helps. Good luck.
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Re: Graveyard, Ancestors, Mediumship, Dying, Death, The Dead

Unread post by Msmoody » Sun Jun 27, 2021 1:49 pm

My question is about graveyard dirt and collecting it from a 'burial ground for colored people' mass grave site. It was one of the first slave plantation in Shelter Island, New York. I am also a current student I collected it to submit it for the homework my question is what can i use this type of dirt for.
I also collected grave dirt from an 11 year old and left offerings for both. I am new when it comes to working with graveyard dirt and would like some directions on what type of spell to perform with this dirt.

Thanking you
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Re: Graveyard, Ancestors, Mediumship, Dying, Death, The Dead

Unread post by Miss Athena » Sun Jun 27, 2021 2:06 pm

Hello Msmoody,

I have moved your post to the topic of graveyards, as this is more closely linked to your query. You can read through the many posts here and will likely find your answers.

As you were posting in the thread on the radio show, I presume you wish to be considered as a caller. For that, please fill in the appropriate sign-up form for the week you wish to be selected. Next week's sign up form will be posted later today or tomorrow.

Good luck.
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Re: Graveyard, Ancestors, Mediumship, Dying, Death, The Dead

Unread post by catherineyronwode » Wed Aug 04, 2021 6:44 pm

For long-term work with acceptance of death and comforting the family of one who is dying, many people like to make an oil lamp, to carry the work along without the safety hazards of candles.

Here is the standard-size kerosene oil lamp we sell in the shop:

ALT-LIT-KERO
12" Kerosene Oil Lamp
$20.75

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See full instructions for making BOTH kinds of oil lamp (kerosene and cooking oil) in "The Black Folder" --

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These books also contain useful chapters on oil lamps for many purposes:

The Art of Hoodoo Candle Magic by catherine yronwode and Mikhail Strabo

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The Guiding Light to Power and Success by Mikhail Strabo, edited by Catherine Yronwode

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Re: Graveyard, Ancestors, Mediumship, Dying, Death, The Dead

Unread post by cyprianinspired » Mon Feb 28, 2022 6:30 pm

Has anyone tried doing a freezer spell on their harmful/ghostly ancestors? Or any sort of protective spellwork like that?

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Re: Graveyard, Ancestors, Mediumship, Dying, Death, The Dead

Unread post by JayDee » Tue Mar 01, 2022 1:33 pm

cyprianinspired ,

Freezer jars do not freeze spirits out. A spirit trap, spirit box could do that. You can read about similar spells in Bottle up and Go which has spirit houses pg. 84.

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Re: Graveyard, Ancestors, Mediumship, Dying, Death, The Dead

Unread post by cyprianinspired » Thu Mar 03, 2022 1:15 pm

Well the issue isn't contained to a single person or place, so spirit traps wouldn't do much good in this case. Appreciate the response though, something to think about in other contexts for sure

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Re: Graveyard, Ancestors, Mediumship, Dying, Death, The Dead

Unread post by JayDee » Thu Mar 03, 2022 1:52 pm

cyprianinspired,

If you want protection or to keep ancestor spirits away, cleanse using Chinese wash, wear Fiery Wall of Protection, purify the home. Sprinkle Boldo herb around the premise weekly.

http://www.herbmagic.com/boldo.html

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Re: Graveyard, Ancestors, Mediumship, Dying, Death, The Dead

Unread post by catherineyronwode » Sun Mar 06, 2022 10:19 am

cyprianinspired,

I would like to help, as would JayDee, but the way you describe yout situation and your desires is not exactly logical.

1) You want "protective spellwork" from "harmful/ghostly ancestors" and wonder if "doing a freezer spell" would be effective for this.

2) JayDee rightly says, "Freezer jars do not freeze spirits out. A spirit trap, spirit box could do that."

3) You say, "the issue isn't contained to a single person or place, so spirit traps wouldn't do much good in this case."

However, you are wrong. Spirit traps are indeed a traditional solution to your problem. In other words, what JayDee told you should have opened up a whole new door for you, but you dismissed his years of knowledge and practical work with magic, and didn't even ask what he was talking about.

The phrase you used -- "harmful/ghostly ancestors" -- sends up HUGE RED FLAGS for me. You have lumped two classes of entities together in a way that causes me to wonder what you are experiencing, or if you yourself are fully aware of what you are experiencing. Your username -- which parses to "[Saint] Cyprian Inspired" -- indicates that you are learning or practicing necromancy, so perhaps the conflation of "harmful" and "ghostly" was just sloppy writing on your part, but because for me these are two distinct words that do not equate or even link on an obligatory basis, i would advise you first to IDENTIFY THE SPIRITS.

Now, i am going to give you some advice from my perspective.

This material is adapted from an old Lucky Mojo Shop Flyer that i wrote, and which we used to print and give out to customers.

A. The term "ghost" means "spirit of one deceased," but in common parlance it refers to a visible or perceptible spirit, perhaps translucent or shimmery in appearance. Not all "ghostly" spirits are "harmful" -- and not all are "ancestors." Some ghosts are beloved, some are feared, some are eccentric, some are lonely, some are interactive with humans, some are noisy, some are silent, and some are location-bound and "haunt" particular places. "Ghostly ancestors" are therefore just as varied in spirit form as they were in life.

B. "Harmful" ancestors do exist. They are true DNA ancestors, but in life they were addicts, narcissists, criminals, abusers, enslavers, psychopaths, or the like. Within the Spiritualist faiths they are often given the neutral designation of "unworthy" ancestors, which allows practitioners to acknowledge them as ancestors, but dismiss them from the possibility of veneration.

With the understanding that many ghosts are gentle and kind and that most ancestral spirits are benevolent and helpful, you still have the personal problem of dealing with ghosts (whether ancestral or not) from whom you seek protection. I have quoted from my old shop flyer before, in this very thread, in this post:

post405102.html#p405102

-- but here is a second take on what i call the five basic ways to deal with unwanted spirits.

1) Entrapment. Spirit traps work by luring spirits in and binding them within twisty snarls of stuff or written spirals of prayer. They can capture named individual spirits, but are just as often used against classes of spirits -- such enemies, witches, trickster spirits, demons, and djinns. They are also effective against disruptive location-bound ghosts and negative ancestor spirits. Once the spirits are contained, the container is disposed of according to the class of spirit. For instance, djinns are returned to the desert, the spirits of witches may be cast into running water or the sea, and ancestral spirits are typically buried in a cemetery. Ghost-containment of this type is the premise for the first half of the original "Ghostbusters" comedy.

2) Banishment. Send the ghosts into exile or to a deserved spirit realm according to your religious or cosmological beliefs. You can call upon helper spirits or your deity for assistance in this. Then protect your space from their return. This ancient, folkloric method of ghost-banishment is the premise for the conclusion of the original "Ghostbusters" comedy.

3) Release. The ghosts of the once-living, including both worth and unworthy ancestors -- but not demon spirits or djinns -- can be released to meet their God, or be reborn, or go to Hell, or go to Heaven, according to your own afterlife cosmology. Scatter flowers on their graves or disperse their ashes into the wind or the sea. Leave it to higher powers, such as angels, archangels, or deity, to administer their punishment or reward.

4) Negotiated or Mediated Contact. By means of self-induced trance or through the assistance of a trained spirit medium. Generally i do not recommend doing this alone when the spirits have shown themselves to be "harmful," as you described. Instead, work within a Spiritualist church or consulting room setting, and if you do so, beware of fraudulent mediums who request expensive or elaborate ceremonies to "settle" the ancestors.

5) Elevation. Call upon their better natures and lead them away from low forms of haunting and into a higher spiritual vibration. This is the ascensionist method of dealing with negative ancestral spirits employed in the Spiritist tradition founded by Alan Kardec. You will find a brief overview of the procedures for spirit elevation in the book "Deliverance" by Khi Armand, which we published.

One final book recommendation: If you are dealing with the dead, i recommend the book "Communing With the Spirits: The Magical Practice of Necromancy" by Martin Coleman. There is nothing else quite like it. We carry it in our shop.

Good luck to you.

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Re: Graveyard, Ancestors, Mediumship, Dying, Death, The Dead

Unread post by cyprianinspired » Thu Apr 28, 2022 8:40 pm

oh my gosh miss cat! i am so sorry i missed this message, i feel like a jerk. you are absolutely right i was being imprecise in my knowledge and should not have so easily discarded jaydee's suggestion. when i said "ghostly/harmful" i was using it in the more daoist (to my understanding) sense of the term in that those unresolved ancestors are essentially partly or wholly "ghostly", it's also a term daniel foor uses a lot and how i understood it was what you described as harmful ancestors. again i apologize to you both for my abruptness, i was quite stressed and scared for my mom but i could have done a much better job of listening.

i did find doing negotiated spirit contact through foor's ancestral therapy program helped remediate it (along with some group intention work), but what seemed to be most helpful was a 54 day miracle novena to Blessed Virgin Mary to heal the curses that trouble myself and my family. since the conclusion of that things have settled down though of course there's still much to do along the lines.

i will have to finally crack open Deliverance, its been on my bookshelf for months now! :oops: spirit traps are something i haven't done much work with, but i have heard the Martin Coleman book (do you know if it's true it was really Draja Mickaharic who wrote it?), guess it's time i finally picked it up.

thank you for your thorough response and sorry again for the delayed reply!

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Re: Graveyard, Ancestors, Mediumship, Dying, Death, The Dead

Unread post by catherineyronwode » Fri Apr 29, 2022 5:35 pm

Thanks for checking back.

I am sorry, but i am not at liberty to discuss the published or private names of certain authors, having given promises that i hold as firm commitments. Time will tell, and when i am released from my decades-long bonds of fidelity i will be glad to give praise where it is due.
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Re: Graveyard, Ancestors, Mediumship, Dying, Death, The Dead

Unread post by cyprianinspired » Fri Apr 29, 2022 8:30 pm

0_0 color me intrigued

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Re: Graveyard, Ancestors, Mediumship, Dying, Death, The Dead

Unread post by JayDee » Thu May 26, 2022 12:39 pm

Memorial Day which is the last weekend in May, is a time to remember fallen solders, those who lost their lives in war. The former name was Decorations Day, taking its name from the act of families, and communities, dressing the cemeteries with flowers and flags in remembrance.

This holiday is a great time to honor your ancestors. Take a favorite items of theirs such as a cigarette, whisky, candy, flowers and some water; if possible even a candle. Decorate the grave, clean it up, and make it looks nice. Speak to your ancestor, or if a tomb of another, speak to them, thank them for their service, tell them you are here to remember them and help them. This is a great way to make a connection with a spirit at a gravesite, one which you may forge a relationship for later workings.

Leave the token of gratitude at the cometary and exit the grave peacefully. If you desired, you can also take some dirt of your loved one, and burn a a white Votive candle with Spirit Guide Oil at home next to the photo and a cup of the dirt. Remember to pay the spirit for the dirt taken!

What are some of your favorite customs and traditions to honor your ancestors?

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Re: Graveyard, Ancestors, Mediumship, Dying, Death, The Dead

Unread post by BrotherChristopher » Thu May 26, 2022 10:09 pm

what a great post. Thank you for this JayDee
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Re: Graveyard, Ancestors, Mediumship, Dying, Death, The Dead

Unread post by jenniferk » Tue Jul 05, 2022 12:47 pm

This might be better in the altar forum, but I’m also open to other ways of working with this issue.

Warning for personal discussion of slavery below.

I am white, from Texas for several generations and from other parts of the South before that. Some of my ancestors were slave owners, although I don’t know which ones. I also don’t know the names or families of the people they enslaved. I have always heard that my grandmother burned the slave deeds when she found them because she was ashamed. I live on family land that I believe was worked by slaves at some point, and that I know was worked by exploited free African-Americans after that. There was also a free black community partially on our land that was allegedly driven off by white violence. I know that the land and wealth I have/will inherit was partially built by these exploited African-Americans and almost certainly by slaves as well.

I have been thinking of setting up an altar, and including my ancestors. My understanding is that generally one would work with worthy ancestors, and that is my intention.

I am wondering if there is a way to include or have another altar for these unknown people whom my ancestors enslaved and exploited. Maybe to encourage reconciliation between our family lines, or at least to bless and protect their descendants. But maybe their spirits would rather I just left them alone? Maybe this is a dangerous can of worms?

I am interested in hearing everyone’s thoughts and ideas on this matter. I would get a reading before actually proceeding with any work, but I have a reading scheduled for another more immediate matter before that can happen, so I am more just interested in hearing if anyone has done or heard of this kind of work. I couldn’t find anything by searching, but my apologies if I have missed anything.

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Re: Graveyard, Ancestors, Mediumship, Dying, Death, The Dead

Unread post by catherineyronwode » Mon Jul 11, 2022 5:08 pm

jenniferkobernik,

Dealing with spirits of the unknown dead cannot be said to follow any sort of general rules. Some may enjoy contact and news (and, in your case, reparations, both spiritual and physical), while others might turn their backs. Do not let anyone tell you that they can generalize on this topic for you or instruct you. You must do the work yourself. There are too many frauds out there for you to trust the random worker on the internet, that's for sure.

If i were in your position, i would do some research, trying to find names, genders, and ages of any of the enslaved people whose lives were harmed by your family members. I mean real genealogical research, not mediumship. Photos and plat maps of the property will also help.

Then begin by lighting candles, small ones, and have an offering basket in front of the altar, with the candle stand behind it, and for every candle you light, one at a time, every Sunday, put some folding money in the basket. On each piece of currency, write your prayer for reconciliation with the living descendants of the enslaved people. Each candle is a call for contact and each piece of currency is reparations.

As the offering basket fills, you will learn more about these people. You will reach out to them. You will have real money, little though it may be in terms of the horrors they were forced to endure, to spend on making ththings better. If they were buried in unmarked graves, build headstones for them. If you meet their descendants, offer what you can to commemorate their ancestors and to work for justice and to repair the damage that was done.

Some of these spirits will turn their backs on you. So it is. Some will recognize in you a person of good will. So it is. What they will want most -- the good ones among them -- is for their lives to be remembered and for their descendants to prosper, and in these efforts you may be of service.

If you never locate any descendants, then, when the money has formed a big bundle, send it to the UNCF (1805 7th Street, NW in Washington, D.C.) with an account of your thoughts on the matter and your hopes for a better future for all whose lives were harmed by your ancestors.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UNCF for more.

Good luck.
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Re: Graveyard, Ancestors, Mediumship, Dying, Death, The Dead

Unread post by jenniferk » Sat Jul 16, 2022 3:27 pm

Thank you for this thoughtful reply, Miss Cat. I will give it some further thought and research.

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Re: Graveyard, Ancestors, Mediumship, Dying, Death, The Dead

Unread post by crystalangel » Thu Sep 01, 2022 4:49 pm

Hi,
I hope this thread be the right one for my question...
Well, while I was reading the posts here, l found very interesting the way our ancestors and loved ones can be on our side and help.
Got very emotional, because I have lost my beloved mom almost twenty years ago in a household accident ... suddenly and almost in front of our eyes... May me not a coincidence at all , may be she was cursed, or something, because we as family had often found oils, broken eggs ect in front of our door...she had seen them too, but back then I knew nothing in spiritual work, on protection ...so, I lost her...but feel her always on my side since we had a very close and special relationship... I am her only child...
My question now: is there any specific ritual asking for her advice or even help in my spiritual work?
Unfortunately I don't and I can't have soil from her grave...she is in our family grave...
I visit her quite often though

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Re: Graveyard, Ancestors, Mediumship, Dying, Death, The Dead

Unread post by JayDee » Thu Sep 01, 2022 6:59 pm

crystalangel ,

You can set up an ancestral veneration where you place photos and items with candles and water for loved ones. Dirt from the family grave is appropriate. Pray and speak to her, call her by name, and use products like Spirit Guide and Psychic Vision to assist you with making the connection. Build a spiritual relationship with you ancestors and while you do this ask them for assistance.

Spirit Guide: https://www.luckymojo.com/spiritguide.html
Psychic Vision: https://www.luckymojo.com/psychicvision.html

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Re: Graveyard, Ancestors, Mediumship, Dying, Death, The Dead

Unread post by crystalangel » Fri Sep 02, 2022 12:50 am

JayDee

Unfortunately graveyard is not possible , she rests in our family grave, which is built up like,lets say like small house, with no soil...
But I will do as you proposed about spiritual connection.
Thanks a lot 😊

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Re: Graveyard, Ancestors, Mediumship, Dying, Death, The Dead

Unread post by JayDee » Fri Sep 02, 2022 4:32 am

crystalangel,

Print off photos of them, any items they had when alive next to the photo, a white candle, and a glass of water, using Spirit Guide and Psychic Vision products.

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Re: Graveyard, Ancestors, Mediumship, Dying, Death, The Dead

Unread post by crystalangel » Sat Sep 03, 2022 5:11 pm

Great!!!
Thank you JayDee 😊

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Re: Graveyard, Ancestors, Mediumship, Dying, Death, The Dead

Unread post by Ethan Nicoll » Tue Dec 06, 2022 2:00 pm

I am looking for resources for things that can be done when someone loses a family member who lived out of the country. It is recent. They cannot travel home and they need a way to participate in the process from a distance.
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Re: Graveyard, Ancestors, Mediumship, Dying, Death, The Dead

Unread post by Mr Christopher » Tue Dec 06, 2022 3:00 pm

Hi Emcnicol,

The first thing that comes to mind is the Black Hawk Bucket. They make mobile graves in a pale or tub, not too big. They can honor their ancestors, maybe bury a doll. They can visit and talk to the grave when they need to.

Here is the link to the radio show post433369.html?hilit=black%20hawk%20bucket#p433369

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If they are Jewish, or just like the idea they can also do yahrzeit candle. If they are Catholic they can dedicate a mass at the local church, normally for a small fee of $5-$15 via the church's website.

Best of luck,
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Re: Graveyard, Ancestors, Mediumship, Dying, Death, The Dead

Unread post by Ethan Nicoll » Tue Dec 06, 2022 3:23 pm

Those are good ideas. Thank you.
They are Peruvian and non-denominational.
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Re: Graveyard, Ancestors, Mediumship, Dying, Death, The Dead

Unread post by JayDee » Tue Dec 06, 2022 3:30 pm

emcnicol,

You are not very clear on what exactly you are trying to do? What can be done when a person loses a family member out of country? Want to participate in what? mediumship?

A traditional method of lifting a spirit after death is to set a white candle on the lowest point in the home, each day lift it up with prayer until it is at the highest part in the home. This elevates the spirit. It should be done with prayer, candle, incense, even food and water.

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Re: Graveyard, Ancestors, Mediumship, Dying, Death, The Dead

Unread post by Ethan Nicoll » Tue Dec 06, 2022 3:51 pm

JayDee,

They are grieving, but it's hard because they are far away. This part is painful for them and they feel disconnected. So your candle suggestion is good for giving them a way to participate in the lifting of their loved one's spirit. It is the type of thing I was looking for.

In addition to this. There is a second complication. There are some members of the family in Peru that are manipulating or at the least, proving their incompetence aspects of the situation. They didn't call for an ambulance when they probably should have, for example, as this man was suffering cardiac arrest over the course of a good portion of the day yesterday. This makes the stateside grievers feel powerless.

Protection of his spirit as he makes his ascent would be appropriate. Also, some command work with detailed instructions for the family would be in order, to make sure they follow through with affairs.
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Re: Graveyard, Ancestors, Mediumship, Dying, Death, The Dead

Unread post by JayDee » Tue Dec 06, 2022 4:24 pm

emcnicol ,

That makes much more sense.

I would take a white candle, dress it with Spirit Guide oil or Blessing oil. Put a photo of the person on the candle. Set it on the floor with a glass of water, fresh fruit and Florida water. Burn incense and pray to lift the spirit (this is particularly good when a person dies a tragic death). Each day for 7 days lift the candle up until it is at the highest place in the home. Taking the photo, then placing it in a frame and continuing setting candles to them on an ancestor altar.

That is very hard when the others were negligent if not done on purpose, is hard. The good thing is spirit is not subject to area like the living, they can call on their loved ones to assist.

A commanding spell would certainly be in order to make the family members follow though with the expectations. A skull candle, a Commanding candle. The family can also create a doll-baby to call in the spirit of their loved one and house them.

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Re: Graveyard, Ancestors, Mediumship, Dying, Death, The Dead

Unread post by Ethan Nicoll » Tue Dec 06, 2022 5:38 pm

JayDee,

Very good. Thank you.

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Re: Graveyard, Ancestors, Mediumship, Dying, Death, The Dead

Unread post by NanaAbena » Tue Dec 06, 2022 7:43 pm

Such great information, I now have great starting tidbits for my Ancestral Altar. Thanks everyone!

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Re: Graveyard, Ancestors, Mediumship, Dying, Death, The Dead

Unread post by JayDee » Wed Dec 07, 2022 3:24 am

NanaAbena,

Lucky Mojo has a book published on Hoodoo Shrines and Altars which is filled with a wealth of information for ancestor altars.

BOO-FLS-HSAA
Hoodoo Shrines and Altars by Miss Phoenix LeFae
$12.00

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You can order right here in the Forum by clicking on the blue Add To Cart button.

For more information, see:
http://www.luckymojo.com/hoodooshrinesandaltars.html

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Re: Graveyard, Ancestors, Mediumship, Dying, Death, The Dead

Unread post by catherineyronwode » Fri Dec 23, 2022 4:44 pm

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