Tea Light Candle Questions and Answers
Tea Light Candle Questions and Answers
I tried to find a thread about this, but I couldn't so, if it already exists, sorry and please worn me where it is...
I'm burning tea light candles on my jar, so I would like to consult you on whether there is a special way how to dispose of them
(I mean what to do with that little metal container in which used to be a candle)
Thanks a lot...
blessed be all...
I'm burning tea light candles on my jar, so I would like to consult you on whether there is a special way how to dispose of them
(I mean what to do with that little metal container in which used to be a candle)
Thanks a lot...
blessed be all...
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Re: Tea Light Candle Questions and Answers
I recycle them.
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Re: Tea Light Candle Questions and Answers
My question is, if I use tea lights, how do I annoint oil on it?
Thanks a bunch
Thanks a bunch
Re: Tea Light Candle Questions and Answers
I just anoint the tops
Re: Tea Light Candle Questions and Answers
i poke a little hole and add a drop of oil
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Re: Tea Light Candle Questions and Answers
I pull them out of their cups, write a petition in the cup with a sharpie -- or if the cup is aluminum, i engrave it with a pencil.
I carve my petition on the top of the wax, oil the entire tea light -- top, side, and bottom, and put it back in the cup.
Some tea lights are made so that the metal wick-holder and wick can slide out of the wax -- with those i also oil the wick separately.
If the cup is aluminum, i fold it up into a flat square packet when done, with the writing still inside, and bury it.
If the cup is plastic, i recycle it or use it to make a container spell. I duct-tape two cups together to make a sealed spell for love, luck, or such. I also make mirror box spells in these cups, by lining them with aluminum foil or with pieces carefully cut from the shiny silver mylar that we use on Lucky Mojo sachet powders, bath crystals, and incense powders.
I carve my petition on the top of the wax, oil the entire tea light -- top, side, and bottom, and put it back in the cup.
Some tea lights are made so that the metal wick-holder and wick can slide out of the wax -- with those i also oil the wick separately.
If the cup is aluminum, i fold it up into a flat square packet when done, with the writing still inside, and bury it.
If the cup is plastic, i recycle it or use it to make a container spell. I duct-tape two cups together to make a sealed spell for love, luck, or such. I also make mirror box spells in these cups, by lining them with aluminum foil or with pieces carefully cut from the shiny silver mylar that we use on Lucky Mojo sachet powders, bath crystals, and incense powders.
catherine yronwode
teacher - author - LMCCo owner - HP and AIRR member - MISC pastor - forum admin
teacher - author - LMCCo owner - HP and AIRR member - MISC pastor - forum admin
Re: Tea Light Candle Questions and Answers
I pull them out of the little tins and run the oil on the sides and top.
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Re: Tea Light Candle Questions and Answers
Thanks guys 
I was just wondering.. My friend used tea lights before in her spells and she said that they burn perfectly but sometimes she saw the sides of them left unburned with the residue. She always took the lights out of the metallic cover to burn them. However, things still worked for her. That's normal?

I was just wondering.. My friend used tea lights before in her spells and she said that they burn perfectly but sometimes she saw the sides of them left unburned with the residue. She always took the lights out of the metallic cover to burn them. However, things still worked for her. That's normal?
Re: Tea Light Candle Questions and Answers
I follow the same procedure missps2010...just a little will do! Good Luck on your work.
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Re: Tea Light Candle Questions and Answers
I use the tealights for mini house blessing spells. I lift the candle out of the tin, put a drop of oil. Then place the candle back put a drop of oil, then put a tiny sprinkle of lavender.
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Re: Tea Light Candle Questions and Answers
Many many thanks Guys
Re: Tea Light Candle Questions and Answers
You folks are always of great help to us, thanks a lot, I would never come to these ideas 

Re: Tea Light Candle Questions and Answers
Hi everybody,
I have a question about burning tealight or votive candles vs. vigil light candles.
Each day, I put 3-4 drops of oil in the candle and pray over it.
If I burn Attraction Oil, and put 3-4 drops of oil into a tealight candle and burn it, it lasts like 2 hours, but I put that same 3-4 drops of oil into a 7-day vigil candle it can last up to at least a few days.
My question is:
Would I give out the same energy from that 3-4 drops of oil on the quicker tealight candle with a new tealight set every day vs. the slower vigil candle which is burning 24 hours for several days ?
Thanks
I have a question about burning tealight or votive candles vs. vigil light candles.
Each day, I put 3-4 drops of oil in the candle and pray over it.
If I burn Attraction Oil, and put 3-4 drops of oil into a tealight candle and burn it, it lasts like 2 hours, but I put that same 3-4 drops of oil into a 7-day vigil candle it can last up to at least a few days.
My question is:
Would I give out the same energy from that 3-4 drops of oil on the quicker tealight candle with a new tealight set every day vs. the slower vigil candle which is burning 24 hours for several days ?
Thanks
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Re: Tea Light Candle Questions and Answers
sun369 --
That is a great question, but the answer is not a matter of oil quantity and time. You see, the heart of candle magic is prayer, affirmation, wishing, commanding -- in short, time spent casting the spell or petitioning spirits.
So lihting a new tea light every day forces you to pray every day, but srtting a vigil light only requires that you pray one time. So in that sense, the tea light is more powerful. However, when burning vigil lights, it is the custom to take a moment in prayer each time you pass by the candle -- and that can be several times a day.
Ultimately, your dedication and devotion and will-power works with the candle light and the oil to set the scene for success.
That is a great question, but the answer is not a matter of oil quantity and time. You see, the heart of candle magic is prayer, affirmation, wishing, commanding -- in short, time spent casting the spell or petitioning spirits.
So lihting a new tea light every day forces you to pray every day, but srtting a vigil light only requires that you pray one time. So in that sense, the tea light is more powerful. However, when burning vigil lights, it is the custom to take a moment in prayer each time you pass by the candle -- and that can be several times a day.
Ultimately, your dedication and devotion and will-power works with the candle light and the oil to set the scene for success.
catherine yronwode
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Re: Tea Light Candle Questions and Answers
sun369,
Magic isn't really chemistry, or physics, insofar as the question you're asking.
Your question seems to imply that the fluid mass of the oil used to dress a candle equates to the amount of work the magic will do; thus by providing equal energy (the amount of oil) to a shorter process (a quicker burning candle) you produce an equal effect in a shorter time. This reasoning leads to equations, but not necessarily successful spellwork.
If time constraints, or other conditions, make burning smaller candles more convenient, or even necessary, for you, then burn smaller candles. The only adjustment I would make in the dressing of the candle would be to avoid drowning the wick, or creating a fire hazard. Time is nearly irrelevant. Spirit will move when, and if, it is going to move.
Your purity of intent, focus, and ability to properly arrange and do work are significantly more important than mass to volume considerations, or frequency curves.
Be faithful to the work, and don't think about it so hard.
Magic isn't really chemistry, or physics, insofar as the question you're asking.
Your question seems to imply that the fluid mass of the oil used to dress a candle equates to the amount of work the magic will do; thus by providing equal energy (the amount of oil) to a shorter process (a quicker burning candle) you produce an equal effect in a shorter time. This reasoning leads to equations, but not necessarily successful spellwork.
If time constraints, or other conditions, make burning smaller candles more convenient, or even necessary, for you, then burn smaller candles. The only adjustment I would make in the dressing of the candle would be to avoid drowning the wick, or creating a fire hazard. Time is nearly irrelevant. Spirit will move when, and if, it is going to move.
Your purity of intent, focus, and ability to properly arrange and do work are significantly more important than mass to volume considerations, or frequency curves.
Be faithful to the work, and don't think about it so hard.
Two-Headed Doctor
Re: Tea Light Candle Questions and Answers
sun369:
If I understand your question right, I think you are asking if more oil is more effective or needed when the candle you use is larger.
That isn't the case. Just a drop or two is fine, whether the candle is small, medium, or large. Your intention and focus and the presence of the oil's components are what matters.
If I understand your question right, I think you are asking if more oil is more effective or needed when the candle you use is larger.
That isn't the case. Just a drop or two is fine, whether the candle is small, medium, or large. Your intention and focus and the presence of the oil's components are what matters.
Re: Tea Light Candle Questions and Answers
I learnt that magick is actually a science that you are directing the energy of matter of oil, incense, etc...to make your wish come true. I understand it logically because I do energy work, and energy work is directing the energy through my intention through my body.
Yes, spirit is involved, but also you can direct energy of matter in this Universe to where ever you want it to go.
Yes, spirit is involved, but also you can direct energy of matter in this Universe to where ever you want it to go.
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Re: Tea Light Candle Questions and Answers
Greetings!
There are some great responses above. My "chime in" is this:
Take the "vs" out of all questions.
Tealight vs Vigil Candles -- its a light! You can do a lot with a little or a little with a lot. The intent is the same.
Could you carve Psalm 91 into a black tea light? No, but you could on a free standing altar candle. Can you set a black tea light while reciting Psalm 91 Yes! Do you have to use a free standing altar candle or votive to get "more magic" because they are bigger than a tea light or a small 6 inch candle? No.
This link will help you too.
http://www.luckymojo.com/candlemagic.html
Good luck!
There are some great responses above. My "chime in" is this:
Take the "vs" out of all questions.

Tealight vs Vigil Candles -- its a light! You can do a lot with a little or a little with a lot. The intent is the same.
Could you carve Psalm 91 into a black tea light? No, but you could on a free standing altar candle. Can you set a black tea light while reciting Psalm 91 Yes! Do you have to use a free standing altar candle or votive to get "more magic" because they are bigger than a tea light or a small 6 inch candle? No.
This link will help you too.
http://www.luckymojo.com/candlemagic.html
Good luck!
Work the Lucky Mojo products for you and for those that you hold dearly!
HRCC Grad-Apprentice #1606
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Re: Tea Light Candle Questions and Answers
sun369,
I do not disagree that magic is a science. What we differ on is equating it as a science to other sciences. Magic has established modes and methods, but I do not believe that is is inexorably wedded to a hard and fast set of operating procedures. I also do not differentiate the energy that is shaped in spellwork from source to source.
I study aikido. Part of the central method of aikido is the manipulation of an attacker's ki, their lifeforce, or moving energy. Moving someone's ki downward, or outward, to make them fall isn't separate from manipulating their balance, using their momentum. I don't really believe that Spirit, or what you call "the energy of matter" are differnet concepts. In Lukumi it is called Ashe: the divine power bound up in the objects we use to work magic. I do not think this energy is any more independent from Spirit than a person's ki is from their balance.
The long and the short of it is if precision aids you in focusing on your work, then you should practice in the way that best suits you. Not everyone practices the same, and that is part of what makes magic beautiful; that we can sometimes agree to disagree.
I do not disagree that magic is a science. What we differ on is equating it as a science to other sciences. Magic has established modes and methods, but I do not believe that is is inexorably wedded to a hard and fast set of operating procedures. I also do not differentiate the energy that is shaped in spellwork from source to source.
I study aikido. Part of the central method of aikido is the manipulation of an attacker's ki, their lifeforce, or moving energy. Moving someone's ki downward, or outward, to make them fall isn't separate from manipulating their balance, using their momentum. I don't really believe that Spirit, or what you call "the energy of matter" are differnet concepts. In Lukumi it is called Ashe: the divine power bound up in the objects we use to work magic. I do not think this energy is any more independent from Spirit than a person's ki is from their balance.
The long and the short of it is if precision aids you in focusing on your work, then you should practice in the way that best suits you. Not everyone practices the same, and that is part of what makes magic beautiful; that we can sometimes agree to disagree.
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Re: Tea Light Candle Questions and Answers
If it works, it works. If it doesn't, it doesn't. "Tealight vs. Vigil Candles" should come down to what you find actually WORKS for you. I work with colors, add oils, utilize different sizes and shapes, but I am most working with the flame/fire. Each of us has to find what is right and works for ourselves. Asking a question like that here, or ANYWHERE for that matter, will get you as many answers as people questioned! 

Joseph Magnuson
Lucky Mojo Forum Moderator
Hoodoo Rootwork Correspondence Course Graduate #1599
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Re: Tea Light Candle Questions and Answers
Now I got it...I side with Joseph on this one... people work differently according to their preference. Some times its situational...
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Re: Tea Light Candle Questions and Answers
A daily application of oil is not necessary. The candle doesn't need "feeding" -- the wax itself is the fuel for that part of the work. The oil and herbs you put on the candle shape the work; I think of them, like the herbs in a mojo bag, as a coded message -- a living alphabet or vocabulary, if you will.
Anyway, back to plain English: you only need to put oil on a candle when you prepare it -- not daily -- although some people do. But do continue with the daily prayer.
Good luck and good magic,
Miss Michaele
Anyway, back to plain English: you only need to put oil on a candle when you prepare it -- not daily -- although some people do. But do continue with the daily prayer.
Good luck and good magic,
Miss Michaele
HRCC Graduate #0361 - Forum Moderator
Member of HP - Member of AIRR - Author
Member of HP - Member of AIRR - Author
Re: Tea Light Candle Questions and Answers
MissMichaele,
I agree with your "The oil and herbs you put on the candle shape the work" as that is the energy that is giving off into the Universe to manifest what i want. But for me, to keep adding the oil to it daily keeps the energy going.
Also, oil comes from plants, and herbs are plants. So, I don't really feel like I need the herbs. Each of us has a different way of working, it is clear.
I agree with your "The oil and herbs you put on the candle shape the work" as that is the energy that is giving off into the Universe to manifest what i want. But for me, to keep adding the oil to it daily keeps the energy going.
Also, oil comes from plants, and herbs are plants. So, I don't really feel like I need the herbs. Each of us has a different way of working, it is clear.
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Re: Tea Light Candle Questions and Answers
sun369,
The daily addition of oil might also contribute to a sooty burn.
Each herb has its own spiritual function, and they are not identical. An olive tree is not a Solomon's seal root is not a violet leaf. You can't do prosperity work with Spanish Moss; you can't curse anybody with Basil or Rose petals; and you'll have a hard time invoking the Devil with Frankincense and Myrrh.
The only way your reasoning is ever anything close to true is that some reputable companies like Lucky Mojo use real herbs and essential oils in their condition oils. You "don't need the herbs" because the oils have herbs in them.
Other suppliers are not so careful, and end up selling you colored petroleum products.
You may be coming from a neo-Pagan or New Age tradition, where the physical tools of magic may not have the importance that they do in hoodoo. But candle magic is something the neo-Pagans learned from the old-time hoodoo candle shops. Hoodoo is a different tradition, and though some of its most popular methods are just a few generations old, its roots are very deep. Please, learn some of its history and cultural context -- it is the best and most respectful way to add power to your work.
Please read Miss Cat's online book --
Miss Michaele
The daily addition of oil might also contribute to a sooty burn.
Each herb has its own spiritual function, and they are not identical. An olive tree is not a Solomon's seal root is not a violet leaf. You can't do prosperity work with Spanish Moss; you can't curse anybody with Basil or Rose petals; and you'll have a hard time invoking the Devil with Frankincense and Myrrh.
The only way your reasoning is ever anything close to true is that some reputable companies like Lucky Mojo use real herbs and essential oils in their condition oils. You "don't need the herbs" because the oils have herbs in them.
Other suppliers are not so careful, and end up selling you colored petroleum products.
You may be coming from a neo-Pagan or New Age tradition, where the physical tools of magic may not have the importance that they do in hoodoo. But candle magic is something the neo-Pagans learned from the old-time hoodoo candle shops. Hoodoo is a different tradition, and though some of its most popular methods are just a few generations old, its roots are very deep. Please, learn some of its history and cultural context -- it is the best and most respectful way to add power to your work.
Please read Miss Cat's online book --
- Hoodoo in Theory and Practice
http://www.luckymojo.com/hoodoo.html
- Hoodoo Herb and Root Magic: A Materia Magica of African-American Conjure, by catherine yronwode
http://www.luckymojo.com/hoodooherbmagic.html
Miss Michaele
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Re: Tea Light Candle Questions and Answers
And thanks to all who presented their own personal ways of dressing and working with tealights. This forum contains a lot of wisdom, freely shared.
Miss Michaele
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Re: Tea Light Candle Questions and Answers
Tea Light Candle, White, Unscented
Use in Magic:
Spell Methods:
Product Details:
Tea Light Candle, White
CAN-T01-WHIT
Tea Light Candle, White, Unscented
$0.25


You can order right here in the Forum by clicking on the blue Add To Cart button.
For more information, see:
http://www.luckymojo.com/candlemagic.html#tealight
CAN-TEA-ZT12
Tea Light Candles, Dozen White
$2.50

You can order right here in the Forum by clicking on the blue Add To Cart button.
Use in Magic:
Spell Methods:
Product Details:
Tea Light Candle, White
CAN-T01-WHIT
Tea Light Candle, White, Unscented
$0.25


You can order right here in the Forum by clicking on the blue Add To Cart button.
For more information, see:
http://www.luckymojo.com/candlemagic.html#tealight
CAN-TEA-ZT12
Tea Light Candles, Dozen White
$2.50


You can order right here in the Forum by clicking on the blue Add To Cart button.
catherine yronwode
teacher - author - LMCCo owner - HP and AIRR member - MISC pastor - forum admin
teacher - author - LMCCo owner - HP and AIRR member - MISC pastor - forum admin
Re: Tea Light Candle Questions and Answers
Hello to the forum. I have never asked a question, but I wish to know what is the forums viewpoint on setting tea lights to bring power to a mojo bag. I have heard set the mojo in the center of a crossroads set up with tea lights. first lighting the tea light at the top ,, then the one below second, then(the confusing part) is to light the third and fourth tea lights from right to left or left to right(for good things). thanks for answering this question.. Guyton
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Re: Tea Light Candle Questions and Answers
guyton: Many people use tea lights in the manner you describe. I personally like to use the regular 4" candles that I always have used. I have not heard of the spell you describe for bringing power to a mojo, but it does line up with many traditional workings. I wish I could be of more help to you.
Joseph Magnuson
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Re: Tea Light Candle Questions and Answers
Guyton,
The order of lighting 4 candles -- and whether to do so in an X or + or Z or square formation -- varies by practitioner. There is no "one way." I have seen the following performed
East, South, West, North (open square)
East, West, South, North (+)
Back, front, left, right (+)
Back left, front right, back right, front left (X)
Back left, back right, front left, front right (Z)
... and more.
The order of lighting 4 candles -- and whether to do so in an X or + or Z or square formation -- varies by practitioner. There is no "one way." I have seen the following performed
East, South, West, North (open square)
East, West, South, North (+)
Back, front, left, right (+)
Back left, front right, back right, front left (X)
Back left, back right, front left, front right (Z)
... and more.
catherine yronwode
teacher - author - LMCCo owner - HP and AIRR member - MISC pastor - forum admin
teacher - author - LMCCo owner - HP and AIRR member - MISC pastor - forum admin
Re: Tea Light Candle Questions and Answers
thanks Ms. Cat and Magnuson for the answer. Basically has to go with what feels right to your spirit.
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Re: Tea Light Candle Questions and Answers
Going back to the topic of how we anoint our tealight candles: I just anoint the top. But I have learned some other ways here.
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Re: Tea Light Candle Questions and Answers
knpitts929: You can also make small holes in the wax and fill with drops of oil from a dropper. This works as well.
Joseph Magnuson
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Re: Tea Light Candle Questions and Answers
Here is another helpful book on candle magic, covering many types of candles, with sample prayers and spells for their use.
The enlarged and revised edition of "The Guiding Light to Power and Success" by Mikhail Strabo and Catherine Yronwode was published in October 2020 in time with the Virtual Hoodoo Heritage Festival, but if you plan to attend the Virtual Festival, you will get this book (and others) with your Workshop Box.
The Guiding Light to Power and Success by Mikhail Strabo and Catherine Yronwode
Use in Magic:
This ground-breaking work was originally sold via ads in Black-owned newspapers, and it opened up a nation-wide conversation on the increasing importance of conjure work with candles. The author was a participant-observer and documentarian who respectfully verified the sources of his information from workers in the African-American Spiritual Church Movement, to compile a complete manual of home and church altar candle services for use in churches and by home practitioners. This famous hoodoo grimoire contains more than 50 candle and lamp spells for protection, love, wealth, and luck. Now, with 32 additional illustrated pages by editor catherine yronwode, The Guiding Light is back in print, bigger and better than ever. Chapters include: How to Set Up a Candle Altar, One-Candle Rites with Psalms, Seven-Candle Planetary Rites, Eight-Candle Sacred Octaves, Nine-Candle Catholic Novenas, Ten Ancient Oil Lamp Devotions, Twelve-Candle Zodiacal Rituals, How to Use Seals with Candles, and Candle-Magic Around the World. An inspirational occult classic, it remains a popular source-book to this day.
Spell Methods:
Lucky Mojo Books are filled with authentic and easy to follow instructions for practical spells of magic and fortune-telling. Enhance your success in spells of love, luck, happiness, and wealth by learning time-tested folkloric traditions of hoodoo, rootwork, psychic reading, spiritual sorcery, and herbalism.
Product Details:
96-page paperback, illustrated
BOO-GRI-GUID
The Guiding Light to Power and Success by Mikhail Strabo and Catherine Yronwode
$12.00


You can order right here in the Forum by clicking on the blue Add To Cart button.
For more information, see:
https://www.luckymojo.com/guidinglightt ... ccess.html
The enlarged and revised edition of "The Guiding Light to Power and Success" by Mikhail Strabo and Catherine Yronwode was published in October 2020 in time with the Virtual Hoodoo Heritage Festival, but if you plan to attend the Virtual Festival, you will get this book (and others) with your Workshop Box.
The Guiding Light to Power and Success by Mikhail Strabo and Catherine Yronwode
Use in Magic:
This ground-breaking work was originally sold via ads in Black-owned newspapers, and it opened up a nation-wide conversation on the increasing importance of conjure work with candles. The author was a participant-observer and documentarian who respectfully verified the sources of his information from workers in the African-American Spiritual Church Movement, to compile a complete manual of home and church altar candle services for use in churches and by home practitioners. This famous hoodoo grimoire contains more than 50 candle and lamp spells for protection, love, wealth, and luck. Now, with 32 additional illustrated pages by editor catherine yronwode, The Guiding Light is back in print, bigger and better than ever. Chapters include: How to Set Up a Candle Altar, One-Candle Rites with Psalms, Seven-Candle Planetary Rites, Eight-Candle Sacred Octaves, Nine-Candle Catholic Novenas, Ten Ancient Oil Lamp Devotions, Twelve-Candle Zodiacal Rituals, How to Use Seals with Candles, and Candle-Magic Around the World. An inspirational occult classic, it remains a popular source-book to this day.
Spell Methods:
Lucky Mojo Books are filled with authentic and easy to follow instructions for practical spells of magic and fortune-telling. Enhance your success in spells of love, luck, happiness, and wealth by learning time-tested folkloric traditions of hoodoo, rootwork, psychic reading, spiritual sorcery, and herbalism.
Product Details:
96-page paperback, illustrated
BOO-GRI-GUID
The Guiding Light to Power and Success by Mikhail Strabo and Catherine Yronwode
$12.00


You can order right here in the Forum by clicking on the blue Add To Cart button.
For more information, see:
https://www.luckymojo.com/guidinglightt ... ccess.html
catherine yronwode
teacher - author - LMCCo owner - HP and AIRR member - MISC pastor - forum admin
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Re: Tea Light Candle Questions and Answers
Over in Facebook messenger, someone asked me a question about tealights -- but i don't reply to questions one-on-one in Facebook -- so my answer here, where anyone can see my reply.
The person had a name, but i don't think she has an account here, so i will just call her "Madame X."
Madame X asked:
Is there any difference between tealights in metal cups and tealights in clear plastic cups? If the plastic is scorched, does it release toxic fumes?
My reply:
I believe there is a difference, but, like you, i suspect that if the acrylic plastic cups get scorched, they will release toxic fumes, so i prefer the metal cups. The size is the same. I buy the white tea lights in metal cups and save the cups. I pop the coloured ones out of their plastic cups and into the saved and reused metal cups.
Two plastic tealight cups, duct-taped together, make a cool little box spell. Line them with shiny mylar or with aluminum foil and you have a tiny mirror box!
Happy crafting!
The person had a name, but i don't think she has an account here, so i will just call her "Madame X."
Madame X asked:
Is there any difference between tealights in metal cups and tealights in clear plastic cups? If the plastic is scorched, does it release toxic fumes?
My reply:
I believe there is a difference, but, like you, i suspect that if the acrylic plastic cups get scorched, they will release toxic fumes, so i prefer the metal cups. The size is the same. I buy the white tea lights in metal cups and save the cups. I pop the coloured ones out of their plastic cups and into the saved and reused metal cups.
Two plastic tealight cups, duct-taped together, make a cool little box spell. Line them with shiny mylar or with aluminum foil and you have a tiny mirror box!
Happy crafting!
catherine yronwode
teacher - author - LMCCo owner - HP and AIRR member - MISC pastor - forum admin
teacher - author - LMCCo owner - HP and AIRR member - MISC pastor - forum admin