Astrology: Character Analysis and Spell Timing: Horoscopes, Sun, Moon, Planets, Eclipses, Retrogrades

Abraxas · Unread post by **Abraxas** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 7:43 pm

Lately I've based the timing of a work as much on the hour of the planets and the moon phases as possible. One thing that has thrown me is how they seem to conflict.

for example, If i want to do a wealth working i might well do it on a day and during an hour ruled by jupiter, but...it just so happens to be a waning moon. I know many people say intention > timing when it comes to working, but to me, once I've heard about the influence of the planets and moon phases, I don't want to work backwards any.

So I'm just wanting to get some others' feedback on their utilization of the hours, days, and phases.

* Do you have a set way of working with the energies? If so, what is it?

* Have you ever sensed a backfire when working in the opposite phases of energy than would traditionally be beneficial.

* What's your general outlook on it all?

Appreciate any answers.

Unread post by **Literarylioness** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 10:38 pm

Even though I am an astrologer, generally I say "screw it" to all that. Sure, I try to work with the moon, but life does not always conquer. I had to do some love work this weekend and the moon is waning, but that did not stop me. Sure, it would have been great if the moon was growing, but my life did not care about the moon's phases and I was not going to miss an opportunity.

So, I take planetary configurations into consideration, when I have the luxury to do so. Opportunity and need trumps the planets and moon every time for me.

Mary

Abraxas · Unread post by **Abraxas** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 9:15 am

thanks a lot lioness. I figure the need and intent outweighs environmental energies for most people.

This seems a little naive, but how about day vs. night? Do most people choose to work by waiting until night? Most people have busy days, this one is sort of just a curious question.

So how many people feel night fosters a better energy for their work? OR is it dependent on the type of work?

Does anyone here work primarily in the daytime?

Mr_Lucky · Unread post by **Mr_Lucky** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 9:19 am

I like to save my darker stuff for the night. Not that it really matters, but it just creates a better "setting" for it, ya know, psychodrama.

Unread post by **Literarylioness** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 10:32 am

Abraxas wrote:So how many people feel night fosters a better energy for their work? OR is it dependent on the type of work?

Does anyone here work primarily in the daytime?

Again, that depends on my schedule. One rule I always work by, is the lighting of my candles. When I want to bring something to me, I light the candle when the clock is going up, eg 12:31 to 12:59, etc. If I am working with getting rid of something, I light the candle when the clock is going down eg: 1:00 to 1:30, etc. I was taught that a long time ago and it is a habit I still keep.

I do most of my damnation and reversing in graveyards, so I do those mostly on Sunday mornings. The dead don't care about the time of day too much. When I am working on love, or a particular person, I like to do it right before I go to bed so I can have dreams that shed light on my work. When I am working on money, I try to do that just when I wake-up. As the sun rises, so do my fortunes, I tell myself.

Those are a few of my habits.

Mary

Mr_Lucky · Unread post by **Mr_Lucky** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 12:03 pm

literarylioness"--

Nice. Hope you know I am now going to use those ideas.

Unread post by **Zola Kathryn** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 6:42 pm

Mr. Lucky wrote:I like to save my darker stuff for the night. Not that it really matters, but it just creates a better "setting" for it, ya know, psychodrama.

Haha, I agree.

literarylioness wrote:When I want to bring something to me, I light the candle when the clock is going up, eg 12:31 to 12:59, etc. If I am working with getting rid of something, I light the candle when the clock is going down eg: 1:00 to 1:30, etc. I was taught that a long time ago and it is a habit I still keep.

I've never heard of that before--how neat, Mary!

Unread post by **catherineyronwode** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 6:47 pm

The use of the rising and falling clock hands is something that came out of Birmingham, Alabama, where i learned it back in the late 1960s. I began passing it on to customers and students back in the 1990s, and i am sure it is pretty common around the South.

Here are the relevant Lucky Mojo web pages for spiritual supplies according to a number of different systems of calculation of timing:

Planetary Spiritual Supplies and Days of the Week:
http://luckymojo.com/planetary.html

Zodiacal Spiritual Supplies and Zodiac Signs :
http://luckymojo.com/zodiacal.html

And here is a simple teaching tool to help you work by the phases of the Moon:

Moon Phases and Handy Moon Phase Calculator
http://luckymojo.com/moonphases.html

Learn Astrology by the simple no-math method -- with dozens of magical spells -- in "Astrology for Rootworkers" by catherine yronwode and Prof. A. F. Seward. Cover by Grey Townsend.

BOO-DIV-ASTR
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$12.00

You can order right here in the Forum by clicking on the blue Add To Cart button.

Unread post by **catherineyronwode** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 7:01 pm

Mr. Lucky wrote:

"I like to save my darker stuff for the night. Not that it really matters, but it just creates a better "setting" for it, ya know, psychodrama."

I hate to tell you, this, but that is a really simplistic idea because it is built around ideas of "spooky" darkness, or, as you called it "psychodrama"

(Look that word up, though, and you will find that it does not mean what you meant to indicate. As Wikipedia tells us, "'Psychodrama' is a form of human development which explores, through dramatic action, the problems, issues, concerns, dreams and highest aspirations of people, groups, systems and organizations. It is mostly used as a group work method, in which each person in the group can become a therapeutic agent for each other in the group. Developed by Jacob L. Moreno, psychodrama has strong elements of theater, often conducted on a stage where props can be used." In other words, "psychodrama" is not a term that refers to affecting one's own mind in order to cast a spell. It is a form of group therapy.)

Anyway, darkness is an appropriate time to do any spell that requires stealth or decrease, but what you call your "darker stuff" -- by which i assume you mean curses -- can as easily be performed at other times.

For instance, if you are cursing someone with an INCREASE of some quality, like debilitating and health-threatening body fat, as an example, you would want to work as the Sun rises and the Moon waxes, and breakfast time would be a great time to get those artery-clogging fats into your enemy's body.

Good luck with your studies.

Mr_Lucky · Unread post by **Mr_Lucky** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 7:32 pm

I just was never much one for the astrological. What I meant by psychodrama was the added "energy" if you could call it that of doing a curse or other such thing at night. Working with symbolism, if you will.

Doing curses or other things of that nature during a bright sunny day doesn't jive with me, doesn't have the right "vibe" to it. But a moonless and windy night, with thunder and lightning above, now THATS the perfect setting for a curse! I want the environment to be symbolic of what I'm hoping to achieve.

Then again, that's just how i do it.

Unread post by **catherineyronwode** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 7:46 pm

Sun rise and Sun set, and Moon cycles too, are astrological in the broadest sense, but their role in hoodoo does not derive from what we normally call "astrology," that is, the symbolism of the movements of the stars or planets, ala Babylonian, Renaissance, Vedic, or Modern astrology.

The strong emphasis on times like Sun rise and Sun set in hoodoo has ancient African antecendents and world-wide distribution. It is probably the most important form of timing found in hoodoo.

The use of the New Moon ("Change of the Moon") for spell casting is found world-wide as well, but is particularly emphasized in Cherokee calendar-making and ritual work. Since Cherokee folk magic contributed strongly to the development of conjure, we find many of the best workers in our tradition, both historical and modern, speaking of "working by the Moon."

In the oldest times "working by the Moon," meant only working by the Moon's cycles. Since the 19th century, with the popularity of farmer's and druggist's almanacs, the term can also include working by the Moon's sign, which is truly an "astrological" working -- but not everyone uses those words to mean that, and most people still referring to only the earlier definition when they say that they are "working by the Moon."

Unread post by **catherineyronwode** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 8:01 pm

Abraxas asked:

"How about day vs. night? Do most people choose to work by waiting until night?"

Most hoodoo work is done by day, and soon in the morning at that, especially spiritual bathing and working for increase of love or increase of money. This is built-in to the tradition. It distinguishes hoodoo from a number of other magical systems. It is not really open to consensus or votes. It is what is.

"How many people feel night fosters a better energy for their work?"

Hoodoo is not a survey and we are not taking votes here on how many people work in which ways and why and when. I mean, we COULD take a survey, but then i'd just have to delete the votes as off-topic.

" OR is it dependent on the type of work?"

Now you're getting it. It depends on the type of work.

"Does anyone here work primarily in the daytime?"

Yes.

The fact that you are asking deep questions of this nature indicates that you may benefit from taking my course. You are more interested in theory than most of our customers are, and the course is where you will learn theory. This is the wrong place to ask for in-depth theoretical discussions -- either you'll get brief replies from me and the wonderful course graduates who are volunteering to moderate the boards -- or you will sink into a quagmire of replies from people as ignorant as you. The way out is up. Take the course.

Mac_2 · Unread post by **Mac_2** » Tue Feb 17, 2009 2:05 am

Hello Abraxas,

As a disclaimer, I'm not currently a student in cat's course, although I have been slowly teaching myself from the website. But because you asked for general replies, I thought I'd let you know that there are certainly folks out there who do work during the day. I work at a variety of times, depending on the nature of the job at hand, and the majority of my workings are done during daylight hours.

As to your original question, I synch up to the planetary movements whenever I can do so without overhauling my whole schedule. I'll make more adjustments or hold off on a job longer to shift (non-emergency) work to a more favorable moon phase; I'm less willing to make adjustments to obtain a favorable planetary day or hour. I haven’t noticed a “backfire” as such when I can’t work during the most favorable times. It’s more that when I can work during those times, workings progress more rapidly and smoothly.

I hope this was the sort of feedback you were looking for. Thanks for posting your questions about this; it's been interesting food for thought.

Mac

Unread post by **catherineyronwode** » Tue Feb 17, 2009 2:13 am

Mac and Abraxas, Just to generally give both of you an idea of how we use timings in our work, it might help to think of each form of timing as a certain amount of tail-wind, pushing you along. If you can align three to five -- or even seven -- forms of appropriate timing in one period of work (either drawing or repelling, depending on the condition being addressed), you will add a definite "push" to your tricks and much more power to any things you make during those times.

And, Mac, you will learn a lot for free by reading "Hoodoo in Theory and Practice" online, but the correspondence course -- which is not online, but rather is presented in the form of a 432 page hardcover clothbound book -- is really designed as a learning system and will deliver much more information, especially on the subject of timing -- because timing alone takes up one whole chapter of the 52 chapters in the book.

Abraxas · Unread post by **Abraxas** » Tue Feb 17, 2009 11:42 am

Thanks, mac 'n others. and thanks cat. You're right, I'm most interested in theory before much else. All the other forms of 'reality hacking' (so to speak) I've studied, I've primarily based my understanding on theory.

As far as my questions here, I wasn't trying to take a poll but it did end up that way. One of my favorite writers on High magick, Joseph C. Lisewski, speaks of something called "subjective synthesis" and how it builds power as you learn the reasoning behind every detail of your working. This must be what I try to do when inadvertently polling people. You are completely right though, I want to learn from the beginnings of hoodoo, how it was taught, not how every other person does it now.

The course is definitely on my schedule, it's more and more a sure thing. Since the requirements have just changed, even though I've been floating onto these sites for 5 or more years now, I'm trying to decide what else I want to order besides the course materials, with a working wishlist that's very long. I've got nothing but utter respect for what you do and have done, the sheer volume of what you publish on your site alone is a testament to your dedication and generosity, really looking forward to learning more from you.

hope everyone's well

JM

Unread post by **Dr Johannes** » Tue Feb 17, 2009 1:05 pm

Abraxas,

Using a waxing moon for drawing or increasing and waning for removal and other malignant stuff does not neccesarily have to be in conflict.
Think of it this way: If it is a waxing moon, do a work to draw in the good. If it is a waning moon, do things to remove blockages who keeps the good away from you. Both lead to the same goal.

When it comes to other astrological influences one way is to think of them as being supportive or not supportive to the work at hand at a certain time. Not being supportive just means you might have to swim instead of surf, if you know how I mean.

Abraxas · Unread post by **Abraxas** » Tue Feb 17, 2009 3:21 pm

thanks johannes! that's exactly how i've been thinking of it. basically concentrating on whatever elements are currently in phase and suiting them towards the intent. Like removing debt(laziness, bad investments, lousy job) instead of drawing money. Reaffirming the corresponding attributes of the time you are working in with whatever fits the intent of the moment. Looking at it this way really opens up and sort of dismantles what used to be the static paradigm of what I used to call my magickal working. In this way it sort of improves your outlook on life, just the planning of the magick, before you even get to the physical working. At least that's my notion. anyway, I do realize it's time to stop with the speculation and start the serious study. Appreciate all the feedback.

DNA · Unread post by **DNA** » Sat Feb 28, 2009 9:14 pm

Is it true that only bad work is done after 12:00 midnight? Or can you do good work like money drawing etc after 12:00am? Does the time on the clock really matter when you know what your intentions are and can visualize the manifestation of your work. I know the importance of working with the moon. But as far as clock time. I have always found this confusing. In my case it is not always the optimum time 11:30 (private & silent) before 12:00.

Unread post by **Literarylioness** » Sat Feb 28, 2009 11:50 pm

I work when I need to work. I do light my candles with the rising clock, eg 11:34 going up to bring things to me and the falling clock to get rid of stuff.

Mary

Unread post by **catherineyronwode** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 12:29 am

DNA, there is a lot of folklore giving ideas about different times.

For instance, i was taught that if you are working for a new lover to appear in your life, it is best to get up and work as the Sun rises, "so that your new man will come to you as the Sun rises, work hard for you all day long, and bring you all his pay at night" (likening him to the Sun), and that it is a bad idea to work for a new lover as the the Sun sets or by night or under Moon light, "because you'll get a man who will Tom Cat around all night."

Conjure is a complex form of folklore, not a set of rules and regulations. You will find many variations, but each practitioner who tells you a particular way of working will give a reason for it that is SYMBOLIC and not merely convenient. In other words, your idea of 11:30 p.m. being "private and silent" is an individualistic preference that is driven by your personal ego, hence it shows no sign of being cultural, symbolic, or folkloric in origin.

One of the most notable differences between the folkloric and folk magical styles of any culture, and more recently originated, urban, systems of magic thought (including magical styles such as chaos magic or visualization magic), is that the former are built upon symbolic associations with the natural world (like Sun / Day / Working / Fidelity versus Moon / Night / Partying / Infidelity, in the example above), while the latter are almost always derived from notions of individual self-satisfaction and convenience and tend to discount or obviate any relationship to the natural world or its rhythms.

That is not to say that down-home conjure doctors all believe that modern urban chaos magic, visualization magic, or personal preferences must be stomped out in favour of old-time conjure traditions -- but it does help explain why those of us who work in traditional and culturally rich forms of folk magic tend to repeatedly ask our students, clients, and customers to respect the cultural contexts and the natural symbolisms that inform our ways of working.

sahjia · Unread post by **sahjia** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 1:11 pm

hi every one if any one can help me about the moon there was a page about the moon and it phases for bathing and other spells, but now i can t find that page. it was on the Lucky Mojo web site but i'm new to use pc, thats why i can t find it. if any one knows what page i'm talking about, so please attach the page for me. thank u

Unread post by **catherineyronwode** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 1:11 pm

The page you want on Moon phases is at

http://luckymojo.com/moonphases.html

Not eveyone works with the Moon, but those who do tend to follow the suggestions given on this page.

For Sun Sign Astrology, try this book:

Your Birth Star Influences and What They Mean, by Stanley Barrett

This 1940 popular occult classic teaches the beginner basics of Sun Sign Astrology, but even experienced astrologers love it because it is illustrated by the famous art deco artist and sculptor Lee Lawrie, who often used zodiacal motifs in his works of public art. At a time when many women hid their gender under a male pseudonym, the accomplished author, Gail C. Blakey, chose to be known as "Stanley Barrett." The original and rare first edition of this oversized introduction to popular astrology was published in a limited pallet of spot-colours and has been given a brand-new and gloriously full-colour treatment by the editor and restorationist Deacon Millett. A "coffee table astrology book" before such books even existed, "Your Birth Star Influences" is both a contemporary teaching manual and a brilliant example of mid-20th-century book styling.

96 pages, hardcover, illustrated

BOO-DIV-YBSI
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You can order right here in the Forum by clicking on the blue Add To Cart button.

For more information, see:
https://luckymojo.com/yourbirthstarinfl ... ymean.html

sahjia · Unread post by **sahjia** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 1:16 pm

hi thank u very much i was looking on the all pages again thank u

Haris · Unread post by **Haris** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 8:39 pm

hi, if you have read "the key of solomon" whics is one of the most excellent book and very famous you will see that solomon gives certain hours about what you want to do. it has a system that i tryed to learn it as far as the hours concernes, and solomon gives a warning that if you want to do a spell you have to find the appropriate hour because if you don't the results may be not pleasunt for the magician.

Unread post by **catherineyronwode** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 8:45 pm

Hello, Haris,

Solomonic magic is a Judeo-Christian system of working that has geatly influnced European and Euro-American magical culture and beliefs. However, while th seals of Solomon are occasionaly met with in hoodoo pactice, the Solomonic belief-system is not a part of rootwork or hoodoo practice in general.

Our work at Lucky Mojo, while friendly to and supportive of all forms of magic, from Kabbalistic, Solomonic, and Hermetic to Neo-Pagan, Kemetic, and Shamanic -- and then some -- is practiced within a specific tradition, namely, Afican American hoodoo, conjure, and rootwork. This forum is for the discussion of Lucky Mojo poducts, in order to help our clients and customers to better understand and more easily work with the paraphrenalia, curios, and spiritual supplies used in the hoodoo tradition.

K_54_2 · Unread post by **K_54_2** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 6:20 pm

The subject is a love spell, and I wanted to share an astrological election with you.

An absolutely stupendous time for all works of Venus is Friday (venus day) July 3rd (venus is in Taurus which it rules), at 1:34 pm PST (Venus planetary hour...adjust for your time zone) and the moon is waxing on this day as well.

I know astrology is off topic here but I think combining astrological timing with Hoodoo power would be an unbeatable combination.

Please forgive me if I have erred in posting this

Unread post by **catherineyronwode** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:36 pm

It is a somewhat of a patronizing misconception to believe that working by the Sun, Moon, days of the week (Planet days), and astrological Signs is unknown to African American mages.

Africans have long watched the stars and the skies.

A great deal of hoodoo also derives from Cherokee lore, which includes Moon timing beliefs.

Farmers' almanacs of the 19th and 20th century published Moon sign charts which were used for planting as well as for spell timing.

The earliest Black astrologer working in the modern astrological tradition for whom i have found a printed record is Edward Lowe, who cast natal horoscopes for clients and sold "Algiers Lucky Oil" in Chicago during the 1920s.

On August 13, 1925, the rootworker D. Alexander of 99 Downing Street, Brooklyn, N. Y. was arrested for selling conjure supplies and among these were "Guffer Dust [e.g. Goofer Dust], New Moon, No. 1, good" -- inidicating that he made this particular batch at the dark of the Moon. You can read the full article here:

http://southern-spirits.com/anon-voodoo ... oklyn.html

Another prominent Black root worker (and manufacturer of "Hindoo Devil Chaser Incense") was E. Parker Reed of Philadelphia, who practiced during the 1910s through early 1940s. Reed left a body of family papers in which were found horoscopes that had been drawn up for several family members, including his sister, niece, and others.

Many hoodoo practitioners use astrological cues to time their works.

Keep your eyes open -- there is a lot more to hoodoo than you might think.

Unread post by **carolina_dean** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 10:39 pm

It is most common to burn a candle on a honey jar three times a week, not daily. We generally burn candles for sweet spells on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. Why those days? Because many of us avoid doing sweet work on Tuesday (war day) and Saturday (enemy work day) -- and on Sunday folks tend to go to church.

Cat,

I'm so glad that you explained this reasoning. I tend to attempt to analyze the symbolism behind spells when I read them and when I first read of this practice, I assumed that the reasoning for burning the candle on M,W,F had to do with the planetary associations attributed to those day of the week.

Monday--The Moon---Emotions
Wednesday--Mercury---Communication
Friday---Venus--Friendship and Love

I speculated that since most honey jars spells were for Love and Friendship, the burning of the candles on M, W, F were to 'communicate the emotion of love and friendship to that person and have them return those feelings.'

carolina dean

Unread post by **catherineyronwode** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 11:26 pm

Well, that is about the same as i said, just spoken in a different way.

chatocamacho · Unread post by **chatocamacho** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 6:35 pm

Hi to all, I just wantewd to know if it really matters if we work with the moon or not?
Is it okay if we don't?

Unread post by **Literarylioness** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 6:40 pm

It's nice to work with the moon, but need trumps moon phases. If you need to work now, then do so. To make up for not working with the moon, try to light the candle going up on the clock, to bring something to you, or down on the clock to get rid of something. There are other ways to work than just the moon.

Mary

K_54_2 · Unread post by **K_54_2** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 6:46 pm

catherineyronwode wrote:It is a somewhat of a patronizing misconception to believe that working by the Sun, Moon, days of the week (Planet days), and astrological Signs is unknown to African American mages.

Keep your eyes open -- there is a lot more to hoodoo than you might think.

I'm open and ready to learn!
Thanks Cat

Unread post by **catherineyronwode** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 7:02 pm

This question has previously been much discussed.

There are many methods for timing spell-casting. We discuss them at the Lucky Mojo Forum, and the mods are always willing to share their own tips and techniques.

Here, to facilitate conversations, are all of the Lucky Mojo Forum threads that deal with timing as a way to link your spell's focus and intention to the powerful cycles of nature.

Spell Timing: Time of Day or Night, Clock Time
https://forum.luckymojo.com/spell-timin ... 11842.html

Spell Timing: Dates of the Month and Numerically Interesting Dates
https://forum.luckymojo.com/spell-timin ... t8110.html

Spell Timing: Planetary influences and the Days of the Week
https://forum.luckymojo.com/spell-timin ... t1429.html

Spell Timing: Astrology, Horoscopes, Signs of the Zodiac, and Planetary Aspects
https://forum.luckymojo.com/spell-timin ... t3022.html

Spell Timing: Moon Phases, Moon Signs, Moon Void of Course
https://forum.luckymojo.com/spell-timin ... -t442.html

nemesis · Unread post by **nemesis** » Fri Mar 27, 2009 9:26 pm

Hi,

Is anyone know if there is any particular day and moon phase one should follow for lottery luck/money drawing spell?

Unread post by **catherineyronwode** » Fri Mar 27, 2009 9:28 pm

You want to draw things to you and increase what you desire during the time of month that the Moon waxes or grows. See more information on our Moon Phases page, here:

Moon Phases and Handy Moon Phase Calculator
http://luckymojo.com/moonphases.html

Here are the relevant Lucky Mojo web pages for spiritual supplies according to a number of different systems of calculation of timing:

Planetary Spiritual Supplies and Days of the Week:
http://luckymojo.com/planetary.html

Zodiacal Spiritual Supplies and Zodiac Signs :
http://luckymojo.com/zodiacal.html

nemesis · Unread post by **nemesis** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 4:40 am

Thank you Ms Cat, you're awesome!

Clarabella · Unread post by **Clarabella** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 5:39 am

Many spells on the Lucky Mojo site that I would like to try include the instruction to do something outside at dawn. For reasons that would be of no interest to anyone, it's impossible for me to be outside at that time. So, I'd like to know how important it is for the actions in question to be taken at dawn and whether it would be possible to do them at another time - or should I just eliminate spells with that requirement from consideration, since I can't meet it? Thanks.

YouTube · Unread post by **Miss Bri** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 6:22 am

Hi Clarabella,

As with many things in Conjure, there is a reason for the tradition expressed, in this case being outside at dawn goes very far back and often when it is mentioned it is because you are working directly with the sun's energy and movement. For instance, in most ritual baths we traditionally dispose of bath water at dawn and depending on the condition we are working to either bring in or get rid of we will dispose the water towards the rising sun or away from it. Because we see this tradition in ritual bathing, and because the practice of ritual bathing itself is so old, one of the oldest pieces of Conjure work, I do not take and I do not encourage others to take the "being up at dawn" requirement lightly.

Your question also has to do with a general attitude about spell casting which each person has to figure out for themselves. Many spells have at least one part that ranges from inconvenient to apparently impossible--if you are committed enough to use spell work to accomplish your goal then those inconveniences become a lot less problematic--how bad do you want it? is what I am trying to ask.

If its truly impossible for you to be up at dawn and there are other spells that would work for your situation that do not require that I would use them and follow them instead. If the spell that you are most drawn to does require you to be up at dawn then its up to you, the worker, to decide what the best course of action is.

good luck,
Bri

Unread post by **catherineyronwode** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 9:16 am

That was beautifully said, Bri. Thanks.

Here are the relevant Lucky Mojo web pages for spiritual supplies according to a number of different systems of calculation of timing:

Planetary Spiritual Supplies and Days of the Week:
http://luckymojo.com/planetary.html

Zodiacal Spiritual Supplies and Zodiac Signs :
http://luckymojo.com/zodiacal.html

Moon Phases and Handy Moon Phase Caluculator
http://luckymojo.com/moonphases.html

Clarabella · Unread post by **Clarabella** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 11:44 am

As with many things in Conjure, there is a reason for the tradition expressed, in this case being outside at dawn goes very far back and often when it is mentioned it is because you are working directly with the sun's energy and movement.

Thank you, Bri. This answers most of my question, as I really wanted to know more about the reasoning behind this and its relative importance. For a newcomer, it's difficult to weigh things properly because people will sometimes say that instructions should be exactly adhered to, and other times one is told to do what feels right, or develop one's own method, or that no two practitioners do things exactly the same.

Knowing that (as an example) some people pay attention to the phases of the moon in their spellwork and others ignore them, or ignore them if the need is urgent, I thought perhaps the instruction regarding the rising sun might fall into the same category.

Your question also has to do with a general attitude about spell casting which each person has to figure out for themselves. Many spells have at least one part that ranges from inconvenient to apparently impossible--if you are committed enough to use spell work to accomplish your goal then those inconveniences become a lot less problematic--how bad do you want it? is what I am trying to ask.

Quite right. As someone who is very interested but has no ambition to ever do more than help myself and family, there are definite limits to what I'm willing to do. I've often had great results with simple candle magic, honey jars, etc., and freely admit that there are spells I wouldn't attempt because of their complexities. I expect many of LM's other customers fall into this same category. Knowing the relative importance of the elements of a spell help me to refine that "general attitude about spell casting" so that it's informed and thoughtful. Thanks very much, Bri, for your help in clarifying that.

YouTube · Unread post by **Miss Bri** » Fri Apr 03, 2009 5:28 am

Ya'll are both welcome!

Clarabella, just so you know, a lot of people ask about the necessity of being up at dawn, so you were definitely not alone in your question.

take care,
Bri

jazzie · Unread post by **jazzie** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:31 pm

Hello,

I have a tad bit of a dilemma here.

I am looking forward to do a honey jar for my lover. I have his hair but no sexual fluids. Well, I have a condom he wore but it is empty. And I also have a condom with semen but it is inside a honey jar that I abandoned working on. *blushes*

I want to do this honey jar on May 1(Friday, start of the waxing moon) but... I have the desire of getting the sexual fluids since it seems this would be more effective. I won't be able to get sexual fluids from him until the week of May 4 (Monday). So, I could do it on May 8 then (which is a Friday), however, the full moon will be on May 9, which means that the beginning phase of this honey jar would take place during the waning moon, which I don't care much for at all.

Honestly, I am not one of those people who is zealous with correspondences but the waning/waxing stages do appeal to me.

So, I have two options here. I can either do the honey jar on May 1 and use the hair, or get the sexual fluid and do it one day before the full moon, of course there is no gaurantee for the semen since it is not predicted.

Would someone please give me some insight on this?

Thanks.

Apo · Unread post by **Apo** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:11 pm

Why not retake the working on the old honey jar? and start working it that day?

Unread post by **starsinthesky7** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 4:02 am

I agree with APO just rework the old honey jar, and the new honey jar with just his hair. Then when you get his sexual fluids again, you can work that as well. I mean I dont see the big deal as long as you start the honey jar during the waxing moon. Personally, I understand where you are coming from because I am very adamant when it comes to the days of the week. But I think you will be okay starting it during the waxing moon if you want to wait for his semen and all that good stuff. If not just work with his hair, its still a biological sample.

Unread post by **Lukianos** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 4:47 am

Hi Jazzie,

You actually have a third option, and that is to use components from the first honey jar as part of the new honey jar. For the type of work you a re undertaking, sexual fluids are highly desirable; that said, it is far better to do the work with what you have, than to not do the work at all because everything is not 'perfect'.

If you truly feel that strongly re: the timing of the waxing/waning phases of the moon for this work, I would suggest starting the honey jar May 1, using what you have on hand already (the hair, the empty condom, stuff from the old honey jar, etc.). If you are able to get additional personal concerns later, that's great (save them for future works, start a new honey jar, etc.). If not, you've lost nothing. Either way, you'll have the work up and running.

Good luck!

jazzie · Unread post by **jazzie** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 10:05 pm

Thanks.

But, isn't working two honey jars for the same person overkill?
I mean, if I started a later honey jar with the fresher ingredients, then I would have to do a different petition....no?
What else can I do with the sexual fluids other than a honey jar and a mojo bag?

Also, if I start a nation sack/mojo bag with hair, can I add the sexual fluid to the hand later?

And, is it true that one must feeld lodestones added to a honey jar? That is, one would be required to open the honey a few times a week in order to feed the lodestones with magnetic sand.

YouTube · Unread post by **Miss Bri** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 1:17 pm

Hi there, jazzie,

Working two honey jars for the same person is not overkill, but you don't have to work both jars. You can transfer the contents of the old jar to a new jar, adding the other materials that you have, and then ritually dispose of the old jar. You can write and anoint a new petition. You could use sexual fluids to anoint candles for use in a candle spell, but putting them in a honey jar or a mojo bag make sense to me because you will be keeping both of those objects around a lot longer where with a candle, once it has burned up, its gone.

Typically I suggest that you start on making a mojo bag when you have all of the ingredients that you need to make the hand, opening up mojo bags several times is not really advised.

A honey jar is a bottle spell, just another form of container spell just like a mojo bag so we treat lodestones in our honey jars the same way that we treat them in a mojo bag, you sprinkle them with magnetic sand and then put them inside the jar and that is considered their feeding and you do not need to repeat it.

take care,
Bri

jazzie · Unread post by **jazzie** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 10:46 pm

Thanks Bri.

Now, how can sexual fluids be added to mojo hands/nation sacks?

I read the info on nation sacks via LM but what if I don't want to tie the person's nature? Do I just add the sexual fluid-covered string to the nation sack?

K_54_2 · Unread post by **K_54_2** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:40 pm

Hi Miss Cat
In a 2005 LM podcast, you had made a statement that a rootworker must inform a client who has Venus square Mars, that he or she cannot help them with Hoodoo, and they must seek "Astrological Remediation (something I have done btw to no avail)". Is this still your opinion? If so, could you possibly elucidate on the reasons that this is so?
Thanks in advance,
K54

Unread post by **catherineyronwode** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:45 pm

I'm sure i did not say that exactly the way you are quoting it, because many root doctors don't know or care about astrology, so they wouldn't know if a client had Venus Square Mars and thus i wouldn't say that they "must" tell a client if it shows up on a natal chart --

-- but, speaking as both a rootworker and an astrologer myself, i think that this is an INBORN condition that is not going to be easily fixed with conjure work. That's why i recommend astrological remediation.

If i have the astrological information, for this or other aspects on a client's natal chart, i also use the inborn planetary aspects when setting the timing for spells, either for me to do the work on behalf of the client or to teach clients to do spell-work for themselves. But i only mention astrological aspects to clients when they let me know that they are familiar with astrology and have a copy of their own natal chart. I do not impose it on folks -- because astrology is essentially a symbolic language, and in teaching spell-casting, i don't have time to also teach my client or student a whole new language at the same time that i am teaching hoodoo.

Now, you say you have tried astrological remediation to no avail, and i am sorry to hear that. There, in a nutshell, is the problem with Venus Square Mars -- it is a tough nut to crack.

This being a hoodoo board, however, i simply wish to correct your perception. I do not use terms like "must" when considering the astrological end of things, and i would like to wish you good luck, because that's all i can do here.

There are many methods for timing spell-casting. We continue to discuss them in the Lucky Mojo Forum, and the mods are always willing to share their own tips and techniques.

Good luck.

Crossroads · Unread post by **Crossroads** » Thu Apr 30, 2009 2:52 pm

Many spells are best performed during a specific time of day—often just before sunrise, at sunset, or what have you. The timing of these spells makes sense for people who live a rural life, especially farmers, homesteaders, or what have you. But many of us in today’s urban world have jobs that require us to be at work or otherwise keeps us occupied during these hours.

My questions is whether there is some sort of “rule of thumb” timetable one could reference to adjust our spellcasting time(s) accordingly?

Unread post by **catherineyronwode** » Thu Apr 30, 2009 4:32 pm

The question of "whether there is some sort of 'rule of thumb' timetable one could reference to adjust our spellcasting time(s) accordingly" is one i often am asked -- and the folks who ask it do not tend to like my answer.

Did you know that i am one of the founders of Y.I.P.P.I.E. -- the Yronwode Institution for the Preservation and Popularization of Indigenous Ethnomagicology? Well, if you didn't, now you do.

So, let's imagine this was a forum devoted to the study European folk magic, and we were discussing a spell that was traditionally timed to only be cast on May 1st. Hey, in fact, i can tell you such a spell, in time for tomorrow!

If you got out at dawn on May Day (May 1st) and wash your face with dew that you collect off the grass before the sun shines on it, your complexion will be beautified.

That's a real oldie, from England and other parts of Europe. Timing: Dawn on May Day only.

Okay, so say this was a forum about European folk magic, and you wrote. "The timing of these spells makes sense for people who live a rural life, especially farmers, homesteaders, or what have you. But many of us in today’s urban world have jobs that require us to be at work or otherwise keeps us occupied during these hours."

And say you asked if it was okay to do that May Day spell at 3:00 PM on your next Saturday off from work.

You know what i'd tell you? I'd tell you, "If European folk magic is not your thing, and you don't want to collect May dew on May Day at dawn because it's just too inconvenient for you, then don't practice European folk magic."

In other words, this forum is not a good place to come and try to talk me out of my life-long dedication to traditional African American folk magic or the folk magic of other cultures.

Folk magic is not a role playing game session where you can assemble a bunch of friends and vote on changing the rules.

If folk magic is not for you, just look for something else that suits you.

Straight up. That's the way it is.

Miss Cin · Unread post by **Miss Cin** » Thu Apr 30, 2009 4:41 pm

Hello Ms. Cat,
that sounds like a wonderful thing to do if you were serious. if not than, you got me! lol but if you were serious how much dew do you need and do you rinse it off and can you do your whole body? I need all the help I can get.

Thanks Ms. Cin

Unread post by **starsinthesky7** » Thu Apr 30, 2009 4:45 pm

If a spell calls for you to wake up a certain time of day such as before dawn, and you cant do this because you are at work then fine. You cant do that spell. But if you are just too lazy to wake up, then that just shows how dedicated you are to the outcome and your spellwork. Sometimes things need to be sacrificed in order to get what you want.

I would try to work with at least the proper timing of the moon (some people even work with the sun) and/or the day of the week. But if the need is urgent then you can do it on any day, and any time of the moon. Just know these things help your outcome of the spell. If a spell requires you to work during a Mars hour, a mars hour occurs during several times of the day.

Crossroads · Unread post by **Crossroads** » Fri May 01, 2009 2:24 pm

I can accept that a given spell will not work (or at least won't work as efficiently) the the proper timing is not there. I'm not looking for a easy or lazy way to sneak one past the powers that be or what have you, though. Perhaps a better way to articulate my question...

I purchased a LM spell kit (John the Conqueror). The instructions are very clear about the spell being worked "before dawn". Unless I'm misinterpreting, I would take this as being around 0500. This spell requires 9 days of availability and 'doing stuff' at this hour. I work from 0300 until noon-ish (depends on when my work gets done).

Could I get up at 0200 and perform the required actions? This doesn't sound to me like "before dawn", but more like "after midnight".

Am I over-complicating this?

Should I be looking into a different spell that promises similar results?

Ginger777 · Unread post by **Ginger777** » Sun May 03, 2009 8:23 am

I would like to ask your feelings on doing spellwork during Mercury in retrograde. My products are coming this week and I want to be prepared as much as possible. I have two spells I would like to work on at different times for different purposes....one break up...one healing (for a totally different situation). Would break up or cut and clear spells be best during this time? Or would you hold back doing spells at this time? Or...are there certain spells that are best done during this time? Any advice would be appreciated! Thanks!

Msg33 · Unread post by **Msg33** » Sun May 03, 2009 8:26 am

it's like you read my mind, I was just about to make this post

well since this post was made, I also would like to know if it has an effect on jinxing? also- any effect on honey jar love spell?

Unread post by **Turnsteel** » Sun May 03, 2009 8:44 am

Well hoodoo in general isn't timed to the planets. Going by astrology is a more of an aspect of European magic traditions. In rootwork many people chose to work by the moon phases, waning to remove something, waxing to draw. Now that's a very general way of putting it but you get the idea. I don't take that kind of thing into account past what days of the week are best suited to doing different kinds of work, and to me those aren't hard and fast rules, I do work when it needs to be done. So no to me mercury going retrograde doesn't effect conjure at all, but that's just me. If you think it effects your then it probably will effect yours.

YouTube · Unread post by **Miss Bri** » Sun May 03, 2009 11:05 am

Ginger777

There are some spells that are definitely great during Mercury retrograde, like Inflammatory Confusion or Break Up, Merc in Retro means that communication gets hinky, so any work that is trying to influence communication or especially create miscommunication is great to do during this time.

good luck,
Bri

Unread post by **Literarylioness** » Sun May 03, 2009 4:01 pm

Ginger777

I am an astrologer and I do not worry too much about Mercury retrograde with magic. The Mercury retrogades happen so often that I cannot worry too much about them. I was concerned about the Venus retrograde we just experienced and did not do any love work at that time.

Life just does not always correspond with astrological elements sometimes.

Mary